archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Miscellaneous > General

General Misc. topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-11-2017, 01:36 PM   #4301
Lrfox
Senior Member
 
Lrfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,073
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FenwayResident View Post
Rosa Parks and Ghandi were fucking idiots too, then. Unfair rules get changed only when people protest them.
I was going to rip this for being a woefully unfair comparison to two individuals who were pivotal in shaping lasting societal change and a passenger who was pissed off (rightfully so) on a plane. And if we're just talking about the airline's policy on overbooked flights, it IS a ridiculous comparison. While the circumstances here were different than a typical denied boarding (United's Contract of Carriage covers denied boarding, but this guy was seated in his seat and the CofC actually doesn't say anything about removing an otherwise compliant passenger from their seat on the plane), a comparison between to champions of human rights and a guy who may have grounds for taking a stand based on a quirk in the language of the Contract of Carriage is absurd.

However, when you look at some of the trends of police brutality and you take into account that this guy was abused (no other word for it) by three law enforcement officers because he was pissed about having to give up his seat (he's right for being annoyed- anyone would be- and he may actually be in the right about his rights re: the contract), it's not such a ridiculous stance to take (although I still think it's a reach). This is a man who was unarmed and not violent, and he had the snot (literally) kicked out of him. I still feel like it's smarter to just work with the cops at the time and work on rectifying wrongdoing later (because all too often, shit like this happens when you protest). However, this is another example of law enforcement being inept in their handling of a situation and this guy is sparking conversation around the country (and world). That takes him out of the realm of non-compliant passenger and into the realm of activist- though he's no Rosa Parks.

My stance on this whole thing has shifted a bit in the past 24 hours. I think United would have been within their rights (though not off the hook) if they simply denied boarding. But they kicked the guy off the plane in order to accommodate crew which isn't, as far as I can see, written into the contract and that's a big problem. They also should have continued to raise the offer (which they didn't) until volunteers came forward. Especially if accommodating this crew was so important for continued operations. While I still think he should have gotten off the plane and dealt with the handling of the situation at the airport, he certainly didn't deserve to be treated the way he was. He's a victim, and United dropped the ball. But more importantly, it's another instance of police just being out of control.
Lrfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 01:51 PM   #4302
FenwayResident
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 687
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrfox View Post
I was going to rip this for being a woefully unfair comparison to two individuals who were pivotal in shaping lasting societal change and a passenger who was pissed off (rightfully so) on a plane. And in the confines of the airline's policy on overbooked flights, it IS a ridiculous comparison. While the circumstances here were different than a typical denied boarding (United's Contract of Carriage covers denied boarding, but this guy was seated in his seat and the CofC actually doesn't say anything about removing an otherwise compliant passenger from their seat on the plane), a comparison between to champions of human rights and a guy who may have grounds for taking a stand based on a quirk in the language of the Contract of Carriage is absurd.

However, when you look at some of the trends of police brutality and you take into account that this guy was abused (no other word for it) by three law enforcement officers because he was pissed about having to give up his seat (and he may actually be in the right about that), it's not such a ridiculous stance to take (although I still think it's a reach). This is a man who was unarmed and not violent, and he had the snot (literally) kicked out of him. I still feel like it's smarter to just work with the cops at the time and work on rectifying wrongdoing later (because all too often, shit like this happens when you protest). However, this is another example of law enforcement being inept in their handling of a situation and this guy is sparking conversation around the country (and world). That takes him out of the realm of non-compliant passenger and into the realm of activist- though he's no Rosa Parks.

My stance on this whole thing has shifted a bit in the past 24 hours. I think United would have been within their rights (though not off the hook) if they simply denied boarding. But they kicked the guy off the plane in order to accommodate crew which isn't, as far as I can see, written into the contract and that's a big problem. They also should have continued to raise the offer (which they didn't) until volunteers came forward. Especially if accommodating this crew was so important for continued operations. While I still think he should have gotten off the plane and dealt with the handling of the situation at the airport, he certainly didn't deserve to be treated the way he was. He's a victim, and United dropped the ball. But more importantly, it's another instance of police just being out of control.
I don't see how it's a flawed or ridiculous comparison. Yes, clearly the scope and significance of someone getting kicked off a plane is nothing compared to civil rights or the independence of a nation.

But at the heart of the matter they're the same thing: someone standing up to authority to protest an unfair situation. If the doctor had left his seat as instructed, none of us (on this board and millions across the world) would be talking about how bad it is to kick someone off a plane for no fault of their own. Politicians are making statements that what UA did is reprehensible and should be changed. It's all over every news outlet. That was only achieved by him resisting authority like a "fucking idiot."
FenwayResident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 02:09 PM   #4303
Roxxma
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South End, Boston
Posts: 452
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LH421 View Post
There was no injustice here. The passenger was among the last to check-in, and the passenger is bound by the Contract of Carriage when they purchased the ticket. The guy only has himself to blame for his personal conduct.

Jeez. That is just as stupidly tone deaf as the airline's inept response. Do you do PR for them or something?
Roxxma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 02:16 PM   #4304
FenwayResident
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 687
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxxma View Post
Jeez. That is just as stupidly tone deaf as the airline's inept response. Do you do PR for them or something?
He/she works for an (unspecified) airline. In my experience both in person and online, many airline employees take an "us vs them" attitude to dealing with customers. You see it all over airliners.net as well - people defending an airline's egregious actions because "it would have caused operational issues" or "they followed procedure."

Of course there are many amazing airline employees. I'd wager the vast majority, in fact, are great. But what I described above is something I've noticed fairly often in my travels and frequenting various travel/airline boards.
FenwayResident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 02:38 PM   #4305
kmp1284
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Holland Park, W11
Posts: 1,609
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxxma View Post
Jeez. That is just as stupidly tone deaf as the airline's inept response. Do you do PR for them or something?
More likely serves drinks or loads bags. I think anybody beyond the base level is smart enough to not admit to working for an airline right now.
kmp1284 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 02:55 PM   #4306
Lrfox
Senior Member
 
Lrfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,073
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FenwayResident View Post
I don't see how it's a flawed or ridiculous comparison. Yes, clearly the scope and significance of someone getting kicked off a plane is nothing compared to civil rights or the independence of a nation.

But at the heart of the matter they're the same thing: someone standing up to authority to protest an unfair situation. If the doctor had left his seat as instructed, none of us (on this board and millions across the world) would be talking about how bad it is to kick someone off a plane for no fault of their own. Politicians are making statements that what UA did is reprehensible and should be changed. It's all over every news outlet. That was only achieved by him resisting authority like a "fucking idiot."
I still see the police action as a separate, far more serious, violation than UA's violation.

I don't think what UA did was reprehensible. It wasn't good, but it wasn't reprehensible. I think they violated their own Contract of Carriage and owed the guy significant compensation (even before the police arrived) for the inconvenience and horrible treatment. I think this situation- the actual removal of an otherwise compliant passenger from the plane- is out of the ordinary (it's not the same as "bumping" a passenger before prior to boarding which is more common and within the carrier's rights) and unfair. It deserves attention and the practice of intentionally overbooking flights should be modified (there will always be bumping depending on crew needs and equipment changes). But this guy didn't need to get the shit kicked out of him for people to see that or for change to come about (there's already pressure on airlines to change this practice).

I DO agree with you about the police actions. People saw an unarmed, relatively peaceful man get his face smashed and then dragged from the plane. The discussion about that is good, and hopefully productive. It's a wide reaching problem.
Lrfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 03:14 PM   #4307
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FenwayResident View Post
He/she works for an (unspecified) airline. In my experience both in person and online, many airline employees take an "us vs them" attitude to dealing with customers. You see it all over airliners.net as well - people defending an airline's egregious actions because "it would have caused operational issues" or "they followed procedure."

Of course there are many amazing airline employees. I'd wager the vast majority, in fact, are great. But what I described above is something I've noticed fairly often in my travels and frequenting various travel/airline boards.
Ugh - people on airliners.net will complain when a news agency talks about an A320 in an article and then puts an A319 in the picture as if the news agency should be ashamed of themselves. Not to mention many on there will blindly support an airline no matter what they do.
mass88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 04:57 PM   #4308
KentXie
Senior Member
 
KentXie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fenway
Posts: 3,583
Re: Open Thread

According to CNN, the doctor initially agreed to leave until he found out that the next flight wasn't until the next day.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/travel...ght/index.html

Btw, the CEO's third statement sounds incredibly disingenuous. He wasn't outraged, angered, disappointed, or disturbed....until he saw the company's stock fall today.

Quote:
Statement from United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz on United Express Flight 3411

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
KentXie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2017, 07:47 PM   #4309
TheRifleman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,029
Re: Open Thread

Starting today United will start to taser customers that need to be removed from over-bookings.

It will be a much quieter process.
TheRifleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 05:10 AM   #4310
Jouhou
Senior Member
 
Jouhou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Portsmouth, NH
Posts: 501
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KentXie View Post
According to CNN, the doctor initially agreed to leave until he found out that the next flight wasn't until the next day.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/travel...ght/index.html

Btw, the CEO's third statement sounds incredibly disingenuous. He wasn't outraged, angered, disappointed, or disturbed....until he saw the company's stock fall today.
Unsurprising, but it got us the response we should have gotten before.
Jouhou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 11:09 PM   #4311
bolehboleh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
Posts: 380
Re: Open Thread

I just wanted to put this here. It might be helpful advice when dealing with certain trolls on this site:

Quote:
But let’s say he can acquire massive amounts of negative publicity by pissing off people in the media? Well now all of a sudden someone is absorbing the cost of this inefficient form of marketing for him. If a CNN story reaches 100,000 people, that’s 90,000 people all patting themselves on the back for how smart and decent they are. They’re just missing the fact that the 10,000 new people that just heard about Milo for the first time. The same goes for when you angrily share on Facebook some godawful thing one of these people has said. The vast majority of your friends rush to agree, but your younger cousin has a dark switch in his brain go on for the first time.
http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helped...right-into-it/
bolehboleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2017, 01:52 PM   #4312
odurandina
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,807
Re: Open Thread

civilization winding down....

odurandina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 04:00 PM   #4313
odurandina
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,807
Re: Open Thread


Pats 2017 Schedule

Thursday, Sep. 7 Kansas City Chiefs 8:30pm NBC Boston / NBC

Sunday, Sep. 17 at New Orleans Saints 1:00pm WBZ / CBS

Sunday, Sep. 24 Houston Texans 1:00pm WBZ / CBS

Sunday, Oct. 1 Carolina Panthers 1:00pm WFXT / FOX

Thursday, Oct. 5 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers 8:25pm WBZ / CBS / NFLN / Amazon

Sunday, Oct. 15 at New York Jets 1:00pm* WBZ / CBS

Sunday, Oct. 22 Atlanta Falcons 8:30pm* NBC Boston / NBC*

Sunday, Oct. 29 Los Angeles Chargers 1:00pm* WBZ / CBS

Sunday, Nov. 5 BYE

Sunday, Nov. 12 at Denver Broncos 8:30pm* NBC Boston / NBC*

Sunday, Nov. 19 at Oakland Raiders (Mexico City) 4:25pm WBZ / CBS

Sunday, Nov. 26 Miami Dolphins 1:00pm* WBZ / CBS*

Sunday, Dec. 3 at Buffalo Bills 1:00pm* WBZ / CBS*

Monday, Dec. 11 at Miami Dolphins 8:30pm WCVB / ESPN

Sunday, Dec. 17 at Pittsburgh Steelers 4:25pm* WBZ / CBS*

Sunday, Dec. 24 Buffalo Bills 1:00pm WBZ / CBS

Sunday, Dec. 31 New York Jets 1:00pm WBZ / CBS
odurandina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 08:48 PM   #4314
odurandina
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,807
Re: Open Thread

Where were you all in the third week of April 1977, the year we had that totally awesome heat wave that lasted for 4 days with temps reaching into the low 90s..... then 2 weeks later, on the May 9-10th, 1977 the Mother's Day Noreaster hit... it brought 13 inches of snow to Metrowest and Worcester, and 20 inches to Fitchburg and Leominster!!

https://www.boston.com/weather/weath...-worcester-bad

Last edited by odurandina; 05-14-2017 at 09:07 PM.
odurandina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 05:07 PM   #4315
stefalarchitect
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 301
Re: Open Thread

(originally posted in the "New Residence Hall at New England Conservatory" thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cca View Post
Good designers do these things well. The people at ABA are good designers. Now, if people could see the value in hiring good designers our city would hold together much more solidly.

cca
This prompted me to look around the internet for good designers and architecture firms. I've found a few firms I like, but I figured I'd ask a board full of architects and architecture enthusiasts for their favorite design & architecture firms around Boston (or internationally), big or small... just looking for some inspiration/researching.
stefalarchitect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 10:57 AM   #4316
odurandina
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,807
Re: Open Thread

in honor of the 100th anniversary of JFK's birth....

i thought i'd post this sad moment in history, preserved in the archives of WGBH. Those in attendance didn't have to experience the dwindling moments of a world they'd soon discover they'd never have. For those people, the news was delivered in a single dose – with the BSO reacting to honor their fallen President in solidarity......


odurandina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 01:46 PM   #4317
Shepard
Senior Member
 
Shepard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,277
Re: Open Thread

Thanks for posting that. You can almost tell when someone has whispered into the announcer's ear... he suddenly becomes a lot more subdued and immediately drops the faux-British inflection.
Shepard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2017, 02:46 PM   #4318
statler
Administrator
 
statler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Approaching a City
Posts: 7,231
Re: Open Thread

statler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 11:06 AM   #4319
dwash59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Allston
Posts: 517
Re: Open Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchison View Post
I know there will be argument about whether this is JP or not, but here are the pnf & figures for 3353 Washington.

pnf - http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthor...d-3547167e4993

figures only -http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/getattachment/45681961-597b-4dd4-8095-be6201f43a2e
Neighbors are suing over this development. I'm posting in Open Thread because I've seen a lot of backchannel stuff among some believing the result of this will set a precedent for developments across Boston. If they're successful, we may see suits popping up for a lot more projects.

http://www.bulletinnewspapers.com/23...n-st-developer
dwash59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2017, 08:15 PM   #4320
odurandina
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,807
Re: Open Thread

They won't be successful. Or the courts will have effectively given over Boston's authority to approve development over to a handful of hyper activist loons.

If anyone wasn't sure, 3353 Washington is well within the confines of Jamaica Plain.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ro...!4d-71.0913748
odurandina is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Megabus of Hotels, Yotel, to open in NYC jass General 2 04-08-2011 12:20 PM
BSA HQ Open House + Designer Discussion briv Boston Architecture/Urbanism Related Events 0 02-04-2011 01:32 AM
Suffolk University's Modern Theater Open House briv Boston Architecture/Urbanism Related Events 1 10-30-2010 01:59 AM
McDonald's restaurants to open at the Louvre Justin7 General 7 10-06-2009 02:06 PM
Open House New York justin General 2 10-16-2007 09:29 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.