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Old 03-08-2018, 09:13 PM   #2281
Beton Brut
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

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Does the Wells Fargo Center in Minneapolis count?
I'd say so. It's a shameless retread of Raymond Hood's Rockefeller Center.

For my money, the most exciting neo-deco tower I've yet seen is 9 DeKalb in Brooklyn.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:13 PM   #2282
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

There's the Californian on Wilshire in LA. Built in 2006.

http://www.highrises.com/los-angeles...ornian-condos/


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Old 03-08-2018, 09:15 PM   #2283
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

I honestly think after this we need to accept the fact that we lost. 115 fed is a dud where our crown jewel was going to go and now our grand entrance to the city is a dud as well (thats being kind). I don't know what you guys call that but I call that a loss. We tried, went to meetings, had our voices heard, and they said F U and delivered trash. Not to mention copley tower which would have been one of our nicest towers is gone, and SST another jewel was thrashed into something else and probably wont even be built. I hate to say it but we lost (and Boston especially lost).

At least well still have the great city we already have, and the great institutions that make the city great so it will be fine from that standpoint, but architecturally its over. We had a few spots left and we had great proposals and they said go F yourself all of you and smushed our faces in diarrhea and laughed at us for trying. We now just have to appreciate what we have because the city is still great, but its not getting "greater" architecturally from here. The faster we accept this the easier its going to be. I still love the city and a few duds wont ruin the city for what it really is- a walkable beautiful city with great institutions of higher learning and arts, but as far as us doing ANYTHING on a grand scale architecturally its over and its time to accept it. I am and I suggest you do too or your going to have an aneurism because Im sure more things are going to get screwed up from here.

I can already see them eyeballing that beautiful glass office tower at govt center and thinking of how they're going to destroy that too. And ohhhhh trust me they will, they will, they will. By the time that gem is built its going to be waterside place with a touch of 1 marina park drive on top and probably chopped down by 200 feet. If that beautiful tower slips through the cracks I will be BLOWN AWAY, because we all know it wont. So just prepare yourself for that one too whenever it happens and for whatever catastrophe they decide to throw there. That ones going to really hurt but these ones lately have softened the blow enough that ill probably just sigh and think of what if. What if we had a set of balls and built great architecture that matched the great minds we have here. Anyways........
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:40 PM   #2284
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

This site might be cursed. Anyone wish we got this circus act?

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Old 03-08-2018, 09:45 PM   #2285
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

Depends on what materials they had in mind.....but probably dodged a bullet........

but then again we have a barrel pointed right at our face right now with this new tower so idk if we would have dodged a bullet or not, who knows if it was limestone maybe it would have came out nice and we wouldn't be in this debacle were in now.

But most likely yes we probably dodged a bullet on that one.....buuuut if it was limestone and that one with the spire was a copper crown..... IDK dont even wanna think about this, this whole situation is such a shitshow.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:03 PM   #2286
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

overreaction can be cathartic, sure, but jeeeez.

we've recently gotten and continue to get some cool and interesting designs.

i don't get all the hair-pulling. i'm not advocating for not voicing opposition or sharing opinions -- that's the whole point of places like this -- but seriously overboard lately.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:25 PM   #2287
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

They just keep pulling the rug out from under us. Im usually always the one advocating for developments trying to get people to calm down with over reactions. But its just insane how drastically they are changing buildings on us. They're showing you one thing then giving you something 100% different, that shouldn't happen. Especially on extreeeemely important parcels. Yea theres over reaction here- I guess if being lied to and bait and switched with turds and being mad about it is over reaction, but they need to stop. They used to slightly change designs usually making them subtler before they get built but now they're literally changing everything. All Im saying now is they better not do this to the glass govt ctr garage office tower or all hell is going to break loose. Please just let that one be, let us win one.....but we all know its going to be a waterside place before its built. But Im going to pray they leave it alone.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:30 PM   #2288
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

MT is pretty glorious, for all it's (current. i expect many to be remedied eventually) faults lots of what's going on in the seaport is really cool, 1 dalton is going to be truly iconic, street-level activation of neighborhoods that had been dormant for decades is amazing, and this tower -- while not an art deco masterpiece on par with the chrysler building -- is *not* terrible and has cool lighting (something virtually all of us pine for), and the GLX is back on track. i'd suggest a group migration away from alcohol and towards ecstasy. not truly accusing anyone of posting drunk, just sayin: cheer the fuck up. boston rules and 2018 boston is pretty tits. enjoy it.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:32 PM   #2289
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

street level boston always has and always will be iconic. Plus the schools, sports, talent we give to the world is almost unmatched. We just wish the skyline matched all of that greatness. But it is what it is. Still a great city and always will be.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:40 PM   #2290
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

i like the skyline a lot!
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:49 PM   #2291
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

me too especially with MT thats why they need to keep getting it right.
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:29 AM   #2292
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

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Originally Posted by Beton Brut View Post
This site might be cursed. Anyone wish we got this circus act?
I don't know. Building B looks like a classic Ivo Shandor design.
Be a nice double gateway.
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Old 03-09-2018, 07:06 AM   #2293
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

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Originally Posted by Beton Brut View Post
This site might be cursed. Anyone wish we got this circus act?
I can't tell from the sketches how tacky this would or would not have come out. It would help to see the color scheme and materials.

However, I think the crown and spire on Building C showed a lot of promise, and would have helped fill a void in Boston that still exists today. Are we really better off with 2 more flat-roof buildings?

Would Building A have been where the Avalon is now? I'm not going to comment on the design of either, but I'm glad we got something bigger there.
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Old 03-09-2018, 07:21 AM   #2294
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

I think Pomo buildings get too much ire from architecture snobs if you ask me. I get where the criticism comes from but its way too loud mostly because it's easy to jump on the bandwagon.

Those old renderings arent amazing by any stretch but I think I'd take them existing for the last 25 years over what we're going to put up now.
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Old 03-09-2018, 07:24 AM   #2295
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

So many interesting tangents raised over the past 12 hours...

First of all I love the Key Tower. One of the very best towers built anywhere over the past 30 years. Art deco is THE architectural style for skyscrapers, and the neo-deco resurgence of the 90's did not go on long enough. This one takes very few chances, but holds so true to the aesthetic and is so solidly designed and proportioned that I can't help but admire it.

Second, I've always had a soft spot for PoMo. Yeah, it cranked out some turds (like 125 Summer), but also some gems (like 101 Federal, still Boston's best crack at neo-deco). 101 Arch looks amazing walking up Franklin Street. And though often criticized, I'm a quiet fan of the bright red roof of 99 Summer too.

Sometimes I wish Boston's 20th century boom came a little later than it did. When Boston's boom came it was the late 60's/70's and boxes were all the rage. Cities that reached their peak a couple decades later got the kind of neo-deco skyline-defining towers that some people on this board crave: Key Tower, 1/2 Liberty in Philly, BoA in Atlanta, BoA in Charlotte... In Boston we mostly got a lot of mid-rises at that time.

In fact the "circus act" mentioned above reminds me a bit of the pairing of BoA and Hearst in Charlotte. It may be a circus act, but I kind of like circuses. They're entertaining and interesting to watch. A circus catches people's attention.

I'm still pretty satisfied with the redesign here at Hub on Causeway (the blue waistband notwithstanding) but I still think something a little more iconic is appropriate for 115 Federal. Something a little more exuberant.
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Old 03-09-2018, 07:25 AM   #2296
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

I'm pretty sure Building A is on the site of Avalon. I've seen (almost 15 years ago) color renderings of this project in person, and it was pretty garish. I recall that Delaware North commissioned this scheme, so I imagine it would have been value-engineered to the hilt.

Without a multi-faceted ratings system, I think both this PoMo pastiche and all of the recent proposals are simply unworthy of such a prominent site. I've high hopes for the public realm of The Hub, but both towers are charmless, forgettable background buildings.
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Old 03-09-2018, 07:38 AM   #2297
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

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Originally Posted by Beton Brut View Post
I'm pretty sure Building A is on the site of Avalon. I've seen (almost 15 years ago) color renderings of this project in person, and it was pretty garish. I recall that Delaware North commissioned this scheme, so I imagine it would have been value-engineered to the hilt.

Without a multi-faceted ratings system, I think both this PoMo pastiche and all of the recent proposals are simply unworthy of such a prominent site. I've high hopes for the public realm of The Hub, but both towers are charmless, forgettable background buildings.
I'm old enough to remember following the old garden demolition project with eyes wide open, very curious to see how the whole area would be re-developed...expecting the sort of dramatic reconstruction of the area we're finally seeing today (2017-2019).

But I am shocked - shocked - that it is 2018 and most of the parcel remained fallow / a parking lot for the past 2.5 decades. How was this not the most plum parcel for something great to fly up?

Is there something I'm missing? Was it just the timing of market cycles? Was the site highly contaminated (I would have thought abatement would have just been part of the old garden demo?) Meanwhile the building with the tricky foundation (Avalon) went up first....whilst, I believe, the old garden site is terra firma.

This whole thing is just mind boggling. You'd think that in 25+ years, they would have come up with something that was a) a great design, and b) that worked economically.

This is not a ranting complaint...it's just an honest-to-goodness question about how our world works.
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Old 03-09-2018, 07:53 AM   #2298
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

Another example would be the Bank of America Plaza in Atlanta (1992). The top looks meh during the day but it's lit up well at night.



Chicago's NBC tower is also another example (1989).



And then there's Charlotte's BoA Corp Center (1992) which is basically Key Tower's twin
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Old 03-09-2018, 08:32 AM   #2299
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

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Second, I've always had a soft spot for PoMo. Yeah, it cranked out some turds (like 125 Summer), but also some gems (like 101 Federal, still Boston's best crack at neo-deco). 101 Arch looks amazing walking up Franklin Street. And though often criticized, I'm a quiet fan of the bright red roof of 99 Summer too.
101 Federal is one of Boston's best neo-deco buildings but I think the new Liberty Mutual building is just as good if not as good although it certainly is a shorter building.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:36 AM   #2300
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Re: The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

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For my money, the most exciting neo-deco tower I've yet seen is 9 DeKalb in Brooklyn.
An exciting tower to be sure. It follows the spirit of deco rather than trying to be a bloodless, mediocre copy.
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