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Old 02-28-2018, 10:51 AM   #1501
Rover
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

Not completely on board with the groupthink out here about its better to not get HQ2 and instead fill up on other satellite offices from Amazon. Reason being is that those offices are the ones more likely to be closed.

HQ2 would be Amazon not just planting a flag but a whole foundation. Leasing a handful of satellite offices is great, don't get me wrong, especially if Boston doesn't win HQ2, but its not a substitute or an equal impact. Those offices can easily be downsized or closed if Amazon buys a robotics company in say Texas and wants to consolidate there. Its doubtful a 2nd HQ moves as easily. I'd also point out the property tax revenue associated with HQ2 would most likely be much larger.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:10 AM   #1502
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Originally Posted by Rover View Post
Not completely on board with the groupthink out here about its better to not get HQ2 and instead fill up on other satellite offices from Amazon. Reason being is that those offices are the ones more likely to be closed.

HQ2 would be Amazon not just planting a flag but a whole foundation. Leasing a handful of satellite offices is great, don't get me wrong, especially if Boston doesn't win HQ2, but its not a substitute or an equal impact. Those offices can easily be downsized or closed if Amazon buys a robotics company in say Texas and wants to consolidate there. Its doubtful a 2nd HQ moves as easily. I'd also point out the property tax revenue associated with HQ2 would most likely be much larger.
Hmmmm, for over 200 years, Washington, DC had the largest single employer on the planet. It remained a backwater only until its surrounding areas finally reached critical mass with vibrant and DIVERSE biotech, engineering, medical etc. private industries in the past 30 years. There can be no clearer example how one employer does not a healthy city make. Look at all the Fortune 500 HQs in Cincinatti, St Louis or Wilmington, DE. Boston isn't in their league for that list, but who is envious of those cities?

Several other issues with that post:

1) The potential of movement exists in the OPPOSITE direction also: More (and varied) offices could also be a greater and wider magnet environment for more and varied startups. Easier to close, yes, but also easier to increase.

2) The need for a huge initial taxpayer ransom would be far less for the organic/stealthy method. Those offices are already opening for the RIGHT and LONG Term reasons - - talent/universities/particular strengths in the particular science/industry. The HQ2 will be going to a city that either pays up or looks good TODAY. In the investment field, we call Boston's strength The Power of Diversification. You can see what a top-heavy/lack of diversification looks like in Cincinnati, St Louis or Wilmington, DE.

3) An existing/dominant HQ2 would have far more leverage in the future to exact additional taxpayer ransom versus varied satellites of Amazon. Corporations DO indeed move existing HQs. Think of the probability of moving one HQ (and really, this is just a SECOND HQ) versus moving 20+ satellite offices in 13 different fields. Boston/Mass would have to drastically change it's corporate tax policy, lose Harvard, MIT, Tufts, BU, etc or change name to Bin Laden for that second possibility to occur. The first? Could happen for any reason.

4) The fact that this is a "2nd HQ" actually makes it far easier for a future move out to occur. The term "HQ" was cleverly added by the very savvy folks at Amazon to turn on the ransom spigot from the Sucker/Desperado cities. Judging from some of the proposals already out there from Chris Christie, youtubes, etc, that spigot has predictably been turned on high.

5) Your last sentence is completely wrong. Property tax revenue would be far less from an HQ2 versus a similar square footage amount of varied satellite offices because of the far higher incentives/ransom that would probably be attached to the HQ2 winning bid. Rodney Dangerfield's line about preferring to sleep with one "10" instead of three "fives" works well only in bed - - not economics.

6) If our metro area had much larger 50,000 student Harvard without the rest of the field, it would be in far worse shape than having a 10,000 student Harvard plus MIT, Tufts, Brandeis, BU, BC, Babson, Bentley, etc. Harvard would have far more leverage over our politicians and could get its way on far more than it does today. The area would have a much larger panic attack whenever we see those once per year columns about the possibility of it moving to Florida, etc.

Last edited by shmessy; 02-28-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:45 PM   #1503
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

Lots of falsehoods to unpack here. Lets get started...

Quote:
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Hmmmm, for over 200 years, Washington, DC had the largest single employer on the planet. It remained a backwater only until its surrounding areas finally reached critical mass with vibrant and DIVERSE biotech, engineering, medical etc. private industries in the past 30 years. There can be no clearer example how one employer does not a healthy city make. Look at all the Fortune 500 HQs in Cincinatti, St Louis or Wilmington, DE. Boston isn't in their league for that list, but who is envious of those cities?.
Who's arguing that one employer would make the city of Boston healthy?? Cite an example please. What does your comment have to do with anything being discussed here?

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1) The potential of movement exists in the OPPOSITE direction also: More (and varied) offices could also be a greater and wider magnet environment for more and varied startups. Easier to close, yes, but also easier to increase.
So....we should have no corporate HQ's and that would be better....

#2 & #3 are totally predicated on the state paying a king's ransom to Amazon, which again nobody is arguing for, so this is a classic strawman argument of no value.

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4) The fact that this is a "2nd HQ" actually makes it far easier for a future move out to occur.
This could be one of the stupidest things ever posted in this board's history. It makes me think you're really a kid posting from mom's basement. Companies don't pick up and move their HQ's every two years? Why? Because moving people around is a huge cost and logistical effort which I know because I've been involved in it and that was just a division with far less than 20-50k employees. Start shifting that many people around every couple of years via a move of offices and the shareholders are going to want to have a chat with you. I'd also point out for major companies (Apple, Microsoft, JP Morgan, Berkshire Hathaway, Wal-Mart, etc) they tend to stay for awhile either where they were founded or where they currently have put down roots. GE is an anomaly in that regard.

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5) Your last sentence is completely wrong. Property tax revenue would be far less from an HQ2 versus a similar square footage amount of varied satellite offices because of the far higher incentives/ransom that would probably be attached to the HQ2 winning bid.
Another patently absurd assumption with no evidence to back it up. First you're once again wrongly assuming that the state will pony up Newark type money for Amazon, when again nobody is advocating that. Second, Amazon ramping up from 1M-8M square feet would be known to the development community who would then start building as opposed to the years it could take, purely speculative, for that space to be filled up by 1000 smaller companies. That lost time is wasted tax revenue.

Quote:
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6) If our metro area had much larger 50,000 student Harvard without the rest of the field, it would be in far worse shape than having a 10,000 student Harvard plus MIT, Tufts, Brandeis, BU, BC, Babson, Bentley, etc. Harvard would have far more leverage over our politicians and could get its way on far more than it does today. The area would have a much larger panic attack whenever we see those once per year columns about the possibility of it moving to Florida, etc.
Again, this makes no sense. Trying to unpack the insanity, you seem to be saying that if Amazon locates here everybody else will leave??? Based on....what exactly? Huh. I must have missed when companies started ditching California after Facebook got up and running .

And you wonder why you get made fun of all the time out here. Did it ever occur to you that you often times bring it upon yourself?
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:07 PM   #1504
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Yeah, that jumped out at me, too, but I can envision some metrics that would yield such a result. Suppose they weight things in favor of public universities. UMass is decent but not top tier which would count against us, but even worse, we have a very small percentage of students in public institutions compared to many other states. My guess is that these two factors were more important than the factors you and I might consider in thinking we should be top five.
The other higher ed metrics which I didn't include were more oriented to the scope and strength of the public two and four year university system. Another metric was cost of attendance. No other state comes close to MA when it comes to private universities, but the metrics downplayed private universities. Another issue with private universities is the percentage of out-of-state, foreign students attending these institutions.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:08 PM   #1505
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Originally Posted by Rover View Post
Lots of falsehoods to unpack here. Lets get started...



Who's arguing that one employer would make the city of Boston healthy?? Cite an example please. What does your comment have to do with anything being discussed here?



So....we should have no corporate HQ's and that would be better....

#2 & #3 are totally predicated on the state paying a king's ransom to Amazon, which again nobody is arguing for, so this is a classic strawman argument of no value.



This could be one of the stupidest things ever posted in this board's history. It makes me think you're really a kid posting from mom's basement. Companies don't pick up and move their HQ's every two years? Why? Because moving people around is a huge cost and logistical effort which I know because I've been involved in it and that was just a division with far less than 20-50k employees. Start shifting that many people around every couple of years via a move of offices and the shareholders are going to want to have a chat with you. I'd also point out for major companies (Apple, Microsoft, JP Morgan, Berkshire Hathaway, Wal-Mart, etc) they tend to stay for awhile either where they were founded or where they currently have put down roots. GE is an anomaly in that regard.



Another patently absurd assumption with no evidence to back it up. First you're once again wrongly assuming that the state will pony up Newark type money for Amazon, when again nobody is advocating that. Second, Amazon ramping up from 1M-8M square feet would be known to the development community who would then start building as opposed to the years it could take, purely speculative, for that space to be filled up by 1000 smaller companies. That lost time is wasted tax revenue.



Again, this makes no sense. Trying to unpack the insanity, you seem to be saying that if Amazon locates here everybody else will leave??? Based on....what exactly? Huh. I must have missed when companies started ditching California after Facebook got up and running .

And you wonder why you get made fun of all the time out here. Did it ever occur to you that you often times bring it upon yourself?
You seem to be a very angry person intent on turning what is, otherwise, a good group conversation into some sort of personalized combat competition. I'm sure you have your reasons, but I hope you can resolve them and find peace in your life going forward.

.

Last edited by shmessy; 03-01-2018 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:11 AM   #1506
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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You seem to be a very angry person intent on turning what is, otherwise, a good group conversation into some sort of personalized combat competition. I'm sure you have your reasons, but I hope you can resolve them and find peace in your life going forward.

.
Consider it a public service! Not challenging idiocy is what got us Donald Trump as President. Its what gives NIMBY's their power as politicians struggle to accommodate their berserk concerns. My job in all walks of life is to let people who say or write stupid things know that they've done so instead of coddling them. Its the least I can do and please don't mistake that for anger.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:26 PM   #1507
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

Amazon spent last week touring possible sites in the metro DC area. (Three of 20 finalists are in this area.) Reading tea leaves, may have spent more time on Virginia sites than the other two.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.0745c5b87be1
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:28 PM   #1508
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Originally Posted by stellarfun View Post
Amazon spent last week touring possible sites in the metro DC area. (Three of 20 finalists are in this area.) Reading tea leaves, may have spent more time on Virginia sites than the other two.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.0745c5b87be1
Aren't they going to tour every finalist location though?
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Old 03-05-2018, 04:11 PM   #1509
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Aren't they going to tour every finalist location though?
Probably skipping Newark, as the location is irrelevant to the $7Bn they're offering up.
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:37 PM   #1510
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Originally Posted by stellarfun View Post
Amazon spent last week touring possible sites in the metro DC area. (Three of 20 finalists are in this area.) Reading tea leaves, may have spent more time on Virginia sites than the other two.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.0745c5b87be1
Reading that WashPost article, if this gives the three jurisdictions impetus to jumpstart fixing the Metro (which has great infrastructure, but lousy management), then the Amazon exercise will have been a great positive.
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:53 AM   #1511
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Aren't they going to tour every finalist location though?
I would expect so. Otherwise what is the point of making them a finalist location?

Hopefully they get a full tour of multiple potential locations when they visit Boston.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:55 AM   #1512
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

Interactive analysis ranking the 19 US finalists, largely on the basis of tech-related metrics.

Quote:
The Amazon finalists are already building tech economies. Which are the best?

..... In the race to land Amazon.com's second headquarters and its 50,000 jobs, experts say that writing a big subsidy check to the company probably won't tip the scales.

Instead, what curries favor with Amazon and other tech firms are long-term commitments to education, innovation and livability. These steps come with an added bonus: They are likely to benefit their communities regardless of whether Amazon or another tech giant makes its home there.
.....
Parilla says the cities that fare best on these metrics will probably add tech jobs long into the future regardless of Amazon's decision. Even the cities near the bottom of the index are already outperforming the rest of the country and are likely to enjoy future growth because of it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.f9aefa1fab75

Boston comes out 2nd, after Austin.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:09 AM   #1513
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

Haha... Austin is a 3rd world transportation hellhole. They win on weather.... cost of living, taxes.... and strippers.

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Old 03-08-2018, 11:29 AM   #1514
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Haha... Austin is a 3rd world transportation hellhole. They win on weather.... cost of living, taxes.... and strippers.
Well, compared to transportation in certain parts of Asia, the MBTA is also a 3rd world transportation hellhole. So maybe the difference between Boston and Austin isn't as different as you're making it out to be.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:56 AM   #1515
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

We have the T, CR, the Big Dig etc, They have i-35, Mopac, 290, 183, and the new SH130. Night and day.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:29 PM   #1516
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

Well they are also one of the fastest growing city in the nation and attracting a lot of graduates there so apparently they have something going for them. Probably the cheaper cost of living meaning Amazon doesn't have to fork over chunks of cash to each employee.
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:03 PM   #1517
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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Haha... Austin is a 3rd world transportation hellhole. They win on weather.... cost of living, taxes.... and strippers.
I wouldn't discount the "cool" factor that Austin has with high tech millenials.

https://www.sxsw.com/

This year's festival starts tomorrow - - - don't think a few Amazon suits are in town there for this? Talk about a nice way to showcase a contender......
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:40 PM   #1518
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I wouldn't discount the "cool" factor that Austin has with high tech millenials.

https://www.sxsw.com/

This year's festival starts tomorrow - - - don't think a few Amazon suits are in town there for this? Talk about a nice way to showcase a contender......
There's already probably more than a few Seattle suits there trying to straighten out Whole Foods and its empty store shelves.
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:11 PM   #1519
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

After the first round was winnowed, itís all about the financial incentives to Amazon. The rest is just window dressing.
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:13 PM   #1520
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Re: Amazon HQ2 RFP

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I wouldn't discount the "cool" factor that Austin has with high tech millenials.

https://www.sxsw.com/

This year's festival starts tomorrow - - - don't think a few Amazon suits are in town there for this? Talk about a nice way to showcase a contender......
I was going to mention Austin's culture.... including but not limited to its bohemian attitudes, clothing optional Barton Creek, wild times in Zilker Park, the over-rated music events, 6th Street, endless hookups, sunburnt debauchery out on Lake Travis, Hamilton Pool & Hippy Hollow..... racing the P-car on the Bee Caves Road twisties vs the snotty folk from Lakeway, The Hills & Briarcliff..... Crazy parties at a certain estate in Dripping Springs...... 99F on the 2nd of February.

The Texas Hill Country in March and April is sublime. Then the humidity begins to drift in around mid to late April..... Then hail and tornado season, followed by the onset of 5 months of unbearable Texas heat and every few years Hurricane-induced floods.....

Texas is wild times. Beer, coolers, muddin' fire ants and debauchery....
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