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Old 12-15-2017, 06:57 AM   #921
JeffDowntown
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

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The tunnels beneath most of the Plaza were built in the mid-1960's: namely the northbound Green Line tunnel and the loop tunnel. The only tunnels that are 1910 or so vintage are the ones running right alongside the east side of Cambridge Street and the southbound Green Line tunnel (running where Hanover Street once was).

So, the point being that most of the tunnels are relatively new and shouldn't require much, if any, structural work. The old tunnels might, but no more than all the other old Green Line tunnels that run down Tremont Street and under Boston Common.

If the City were to ever launch a serious redevelopment of City Hall Plaza with new buildings and additional streets, the tunnels would not be a problem. Just slap on a 3 foot grade raise over the tunnel roofs and the entire Plaza area to provide cover and reinforcement for new development.
I think your assessment is a little simplistic.

The T is not known for "unbuilding" old tunnels they abandon. While some of the tunnel network was rebuilt during the 1960's urban renewal, I believe that the abandoned shells of the old Adams and Court stations, for example, were left down there. And none of the abandoned tunnel works get any maintenance.

Also, given the standard corrupt construction practices in Boston, what makes you think that tunnels built in the 1960's are in good shape. We have infrastructure from the 70's and 80's that are crumbling due to use of under-spec concrete.
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:31 AM   #922
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

Is it possible that they've folded stuff like HVAC and systems for City Hall itself into this project?
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:05 AM   #923
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

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Is it possible that they've folded stuff like HVAC and systems for City Hall itself into this project?
That's probably under "Required Repairs," which will cost, in total, $100-$150 million depending on which design scheme they follow through with. That's a separate price tag from the plaza renovation.

Phase 1 will have $30 million in deferred maintenance/required repairs and $16 million in modifications and enhancements for City Hall itself.

EDIT: Posting helpful graphic that details pricing:
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:33 AM   #924
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

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That's probably under "Required Repairs," which will cost, in total, $100-$150 million depending on which design scheme they follow through with. That's a separate price tag from the plaza renovation.

Phase 1 will have $30 million in deferred maintenance/required repairs and $16 million in modifications and enhancements for City Hall itself.

EDIT: Posting helpful graphic that details pricing:
...so $150-200 million over 5 years? Why not just rent some office space somewhere downtown and get out of the building maintenance business? That has to be cheap in the long run, no?
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:49 AM   #925
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

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...so $150-200 million over 5 years? Why not just rent some office space somewhere downtown and get out of the building maintenance business? That has to be cheap in the long run, no?
Well, the City of Boston owns a lot of buildings. Renting office space won't get rid of the schools, the maintenance yards, the other city office buildings, the libraries...
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Old 12-27-2017, 05:45 PM   #926
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...uSI/story.html
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:14 PM   #927
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

They need to throw up a building on the grey square on the corner of the plaza. Get some more office space but hold govt offices, federal, state...etc if they want. Fill in a gap in the skyline and also make use of this vast space of concrete. The plaza is huge throwing up a tower with some ground level use would make use of some of the space and make it profitable. Make the plaza a bit smaller and interesting so its not sooo vast. It wouldn't take much room and they could use revenue to fund improvements to the plaza, city hall, and possibly even a new city hall eventually. I think thats a perfect spot its right on the edge of the site. Get a serious looking black glass box with a one Vanderbilt crown lit up on it or something and call it a day. It almost looks like its meant to be, Im surprised theres been no proposals for this spot. Its right next to transit as well I think this would be a great spot. Kill a million birds with one stone. We need more spires we could get one right here. With the ever shortening amount of spaces left in the city this is a no brainer. Nothing has to be removed and its city land that they're dying to activate. Making the plaza smaller would be a good thing and getting a rentable office tower for the city would add revenue while giving them new class A office space. Doooooo it.

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Old 12-27-2017, 11:21 PM   #928
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

FAA allows 750' here as well I think this needs to be looked at for redevelopment. The skyline is being pulled north and this would help that as well. Fill in a gap in the skyline where the skyline is moving north towards Govt Ctr garage office/resi towers. They're going up next door ending with hub on causeway/NST this would add density and height to an area of the city that is growing and moving north. i think this would be a great spot to look at seriously.

Since its allowed to go 750' per the FAA it would be the tallest in downtown and its central location could make this the crown of downtown after 115 fed got cut down. The central location of the parcel would look great on the skyline and it would really soar over downtown from the waterfront especially seeing that the buildings around it are on the shorter side. A spot like this would command an icon, hopefully including a lit spire, and would really tie the whole skyline together since theres a noticeable gap here right now. The central location would also be the perfect spot for the peak of downtown. 750' is not joke this could really be the ticket if they'd explore this.

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Old 12-28-2017, 08:15 AM   #929
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

Unless the Blue Line is right under there, I totally agree.
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:54 AM   #930
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

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Unless the Blue Line is right under there, I totally agree.
A refresher from the GC thread:

http://www.archboston.org/community/...&postcount=326

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Diagram I compiled:

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Old 12-28-2017, 01:40 PM   #931
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

Rather than a tall building here, I would much, much prefer a space more catered to events, and more events. An indoor programmable space might be nice here too.
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:48 PM   #932
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

I would like to see at least some part of the giant government center plaza redeveloped into something bigger. However, the 123 piece of crap building across the street is also an excellent candidate for redevelopment! They could put up 2 or even 3 very tall towers, and open up space between them to once again reveal the beautiful courthouse buildings from Cambridge Street! Currently, this is probably the most blah area in all of downtown Boston.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:28 PM   #933
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

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I would like to see at least some part of the giant government center plaza redeveloped into something bigger. However, the 123 piece of crap building across the street is also an excellent candidate for redevelopment! They could put up 2 or even 3 very tall towers, and open up space between them to once again reveal the beautiful courthouse buildings from Cambridge Street! Currently, this is probably the most blah area in all of downtown Boston.
Agreed, there are some real hidden gems like the Suffolk County Courthouse hidden there. Center Plaza is a must go along with the buildings at the corner of Tremont and Court. Next to them is the Boston School Admin building which is probably falling apart. Not sure what the back side of old city hall looks like but removing the school building would open that up as well.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:32 PM   #934
stick n move
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Re: City Hall - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

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Rather than a tall building here, I would much, much prefer a space more catered to events, and more events. An indoor programmable space might be nice here too.
I agree but you can do both. The building would take up barely any space off in the corner of the site and you still have an enormous plaza of brick. I think making it smaller would be a good thing as long as you use the space right. It would still be a huge plaza that can be updated, I just think right now its too vast for being in the middle of downtown.
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