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Old 05-21-2015, 08:42 AM   #681
Equilibria
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Re: BCEC expansion

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As for the place - its lipstick on a white elephant, no less than are the MiracleGro moats that insulate the McManions of Medfield and Burlington. As a 'place', it is a buffer and an ornament. I agree that it is a very, very nice example of an ornamental buffer - kudos! - but I'm frustrated that a buffer is required at all. i.e. why should the convention center be as hostile to the human-scale environment as a factory or a power plant (or a McMansion)? I know that they *usually* are faceless boxes, but I'm asserting that they dont *have to be* and further that this one *should not be*. And of course while we all admire the manicuring on the new lawn, the 'front porch' continues to discharge visitors into a vast gaping Nothing.
The "vast gaping nothing" part is accurate, though a lot of that was GOING to change before Baker decided to show-trial all the MCCA-funded hotel projects. Some of it will still change as Seaport Square approaches Summer St. and when Massport builds their hotel.

I've never been to the Lawn on D, but it seems to be acting like much more than an ornamental buffer. Regardless of how you'd like people to live their lives in a city, the evidence seems to show that people really enjoy it. When you ask young people with disposable income to return to urban environments, you have to deal with the reality that they'll want to live like young people with disposable income. You can't expect them to pretend to be something that they're not. A gritty homogeneity is just as dishonest as the "McMansion" homogeneity you accuse the Seaport of espousing.
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Old 05-21-2015, 08:56 AM   #682
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Re: BCEC expansion

There's nothing wrong with the lawn. There's a lot wrong with the BCEC (urbanistically at least). I'd much rather this lawn programming be moved to Fan Pier's truly ornamental waterfront lawn, and the side of the BCEC built out for a human-scaled street experience.
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Old 05-21-2015, 09:58 AM   #683
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Re: BCEC expansion

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There's nothing wrong with the lawn. There's a lot wrong with the BCEC (urbanistically at least). I'd much rather this lawn programming be moved to Fan Pier's truly ornamental waterfront lawn, and the side of the BCEC built out for a human-scaled street experience.
Shep -- my vision of your "human-scaled street experience." is an Indian Bazaar with countless tiny stalls and people swarming from one end of Eastside Drive to the other -- people will sell car batteries next to candy and motor oil next to lingerie with hot foots and fresh fruits and pick pockets to boot

The crowd will spill into the street and prevent the trucks from delivering the necessities to run the convention business and the buses from delivering the convention visitors



No -- I don't think that the sides of the convention center need adornment -- its functional -- keep the people on the other side of the street
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:07 AM   #684
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Re: BCEC expansion

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Why? This sounds sad.

I'm failing to understand how a public place where a bunch of people are having a bunch of fun is a bad thing.
You can have fun anywhere---Fun shouldn't cost the taxpayers a dime.

Last edited by TheRifleman; 05-21-2015 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:18 AM   #685
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Re: BCEC expansion

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You can have fun anyway---Fun should cost the taxpayers a dime.
Riff -- you are going back to your old habit of firing and then looking for the target

By you logic Boston should sell the Common for development and we should build the 1000 foot tower on top of the hill where the Civil War Soldiers and Sailors monument is located with a low podium following the hillside down to Charles Street
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:33 AM   #686
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Re: BCEC expansion

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Riff -- you are going back to your old habit of firing and then looking for the target

By you logic Boston should sell the Common for development and we should build the 1000 foot tower on top of the hill where the Civil War Soldiers and Sailors monument is located with a low podium following the hillside down to Charles Street
There is a big difference between-- Boston Common VS BCEC

Parks for the most part need to be maintained: Expansions of buildings and other types of public developments have to be 3-Times maintained than a park.
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:59 AM   #687
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Re: BCEC expansion

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There is a big difference between-- Boston Common VS BCEC

Parks for the most part need to be maintained: Expansions of buildings and other types of public developments have to be 3-Times maintained than a park.
You think the Common, Franklin Park, Central Park, etc. weren't built with public funds? You know they had to spend a lot of money to build those, right?
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Old 05-21-2015, 12:45 PM   #688
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Re: BCEC expansion

It ain't exactly "public". It isn't open like the city's parks and is going to be closed regularly for private events.

Just clarifying.
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:38 PM   #689
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Re: BCEC expansion

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It ain't exactly "public". It isn't open like the city's parks and is going to be closed regularly for private events.
Maybe this is all that I've been trying to get across. And that's why the word 'lawn' got me going in the first place. I know its marketing, and its good marketing. But it's also what you call something that looks public but isn't. (Has anyone ever said, "hey you no-good kids get off my public park!"?)

I recognize that fun times are being had by many. I just think that genuinely public places are important, that filling those places with genuinely public activity is important, and that we all have a responsibility to support and advocate for public places and public activities. Its partly an aesthetic judgement, but its mostly about the social and political (political in the big sense, not in the 'elections' sense) wellbeing of the city.


**Edit: and Equilibria, please note my position has nothing to do with homogeneity or even grit - its probably something closer to 'authenticity', which can be found (or be found missing) at both ends of the income distribution and at any level of diversity

.....and Justin, I can't say it's bad that people are having fun, I'm just uncomfortable with that much collective fun requiring the permission and the marketing budget of the (freaking) Convention Authority (it simply can't get any more corporate than that...)


I also recognize that it's very much a 'cranky old man' position [full disclosure: turned 34 yesterday, so I'm perhaps a bit of a premature grump...**EDIT: Or maybe just a really old hipster? ].

For what it's worth, other things I don't like for [partly...] aesthetic [but mostly...] social and political reasons include:

- The quasi-public greenscaping at Charles River Park
- The quasi-public 'streets' within the Faneuil Hall Marketplace
- Tour guides dressed up like colonists
- TVs in bars
- Smart phones in bars
- The 'make some noise' meter on the jumbotron at Celtics games
- Sweet Caroline in the seventh inning
- 'Boston Strong'
- Little League

And yes, i know those are mostly minority positions.

Again, this is mostly not about aesthetics - its about dignity and power relations (which makes me a left-grump, in contrast to Rifleman's right-grump, though apparently in rare alignment here).

....I'll stop bothering you guys about this now....

Last edited by CSTH; 05-21-2015 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:17 PM   #690
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Re: BCEC expansion

Are you single?
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:37 PM   #691
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Re: BCEC expansion

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Originally Posted by CSTH View Post
Maybe this is all that I've been trying to get across. And that's why the word 'lawn' got me going in the first place. I know its marketing, and its good marketing. But it's also what you call something that looks public but isn't. (Has anyone ever said, "hey you no-good kids get off my public park!"?)

I recognize that fun times are being had by many. I just think that genuinely public places are important, that filling those places with genuinely public activity is important, and that we all have a responsibility to support and advocate for public places and public activities. Its partly an aesthetic judgement, but its mostly about the social and political (political in the big sense, not in the 'elections' sense) wellbeing of the city.


**Edit: and Equilibria, please note my position has nothing to do with homogeneity or even grit - its probably something closer to 'authenticity', which can be found (or be found missing) at both ends of the income distribution and at any level of diversity

.....and Justin, I can't say it's bad that people are having fun, I'm just uncomfortable with that much collective fun requiring the permission and the marketing budget of the (freaking) Convention Authority (it simply can't get any more corporate than that...)


I also recognize that it's very much a 'cranky old man' position [full disclosure: turned 34 yesterday, so I'm perhaps a bit of a premature grump...**EDIT: Or maybe just a really old hipster? ].

For what it's worth, other things I don't like for [partly...] aesthetic [but mostly...] social and political reasons include:

- The quasi-public greenscaping at Charles River Park
- The quasi-public 'streets' within the Faneuil Hall Marketplace
- Tour guides dressed up like colonists
- TVs in bars
- Smart phones in bars
- The 'make some noise' meter on the jumbotron at Celtics games
- Sweet Caroline in the seventh inning
- 'Boston Strong'
- Little League

And yes, i know those are mostly minority positions.

Again, this is mostly not about aesthetics - its about dignity and power relations (which makes me a left-grump, in contrast to Rifleman's right-grump, though apparently in rare alignment here).

....I'll stop bothering you guys about this now....
get off my lawn
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:06 PM   #692
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Re: BCEC expansion

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get off my lawn
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Old 05-27-2015, 10:12 PM   #693
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Re: BCEC expansion

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get off my lawn


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Old 05-28-2015, 08:03 AM   #694
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Re: BCEC expansion

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These signs are always fun dart boards...

What's the "no businessman" strike-through mean?

Also... no running/horseplay? So don't bring your children here to play...
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Old 05-28-2015, 08:12 AM   #695
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Re: BCEC expansion

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These signs are always fun dart boards...

What's the "no businessman" strike-through mean?

Also... no running/horseplay? So don't bring your children here to play...
I was wondering the same last night about the guy with a briefcase, but looking at this with a fresh head I think it might mean no soliciting? Either way, the sign and litany of symbols are over-thought and confusing.
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Old 05-28-2015, 08:45 AM   #696
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Re: BCEC expansion

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Do not taunt Happy Fun Lawn.
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Old 05-28-2015, 02:18 PM   #697
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Re: BCEC expansion

It's unfortunate that the signs are overflowing with text. The activities the space hosts are designed to enliven the area and so should the signs.
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Old 05-28-2015, 02:51 PM   #698
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Re: BCEC expansion

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It's unfortunate that the signs are overflowing with text. The activities the space hosts are designed to enliven the area and so should the signs.
Yes, but this kind of reads like the rules at any public beach or public pool. They are all "over done" for liability reasons.
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:10 PM   #699
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Re: BCEC expansion

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Yes, but this kind of reads like the rules at any public beach or public pool. They are all "over done" for liability reasons.
^
+1
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:34 PM   #700
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Re: BCEC expansion

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I don't understand why this would be a bad thing either. Chicago has Navy Pier and to say that something like that wouldn't fit in the urban fabric or is "unauthentic street activation" is bull. You look at the results, not necesarily the process to achieve it.
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