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-   -   Silver Line to Chelsea (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=4473)

cybah 02-15-2013 04:49 PM

Silver Line to Chelsea
 
Not sure if this is the right section to post something like this.. BUT.. In one of Jay Ashe's (City Manager) digest emails he sends out weekly... I saw this:

"Wed, March 13th 6p Silver Line North (to Chelsea) planning study meeting City Council Chambers opportunity to hear and comment on a study examining the possibility of extending the Silver Line from South Station to Chelsea"

Here's your chance to speak up. I know I'll be clearing out my schedule so I can attend. I *want* this to happen.

(Moderators: feel free to move this post somewhere else if it doesn't belong..)

davem 02-15-2013 10:57 PM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cybah (Post 166303)
Not sure if this is the right section to post something like this.. BUT.. In one of Jay Ashe's (City Manager) digest emails he sends out weekly... I saw this:

"Wed, March 13th 6p Silver Line North (to Chelsea) planning study meeting City Council Chambers opportunity to hear and comment on a study examining the possibility of extending the Silver Line from South Station to Chelsea"

Here's your chance to speak up. I know I'll be clearing out my schedule so I can attend. I *want* this to happen.

(Moderators: feel free to move this post somewhere else if it doesn't belong..)

This could be awesome, particularly as it would also function as the N-S link. They should have it be a loop to supliment the SL1, going BON>BOS>Logan>Maverick>Central>Chelsea>Tobin

The only issue is, of course,

jass 02-16-2013 12:11 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Massachusetts....

Money for studies?
Endless.

Money for implementation?
0.

Arborway 02-16-2013 12:26 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Rest assured that a new batch of consultants will be hired in 3 to 4 years.

And 3 to 4 years after that.

Commuting Boston Student 02-16-2013 10:12 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
I wish Chelsea all the best of luck in their pursuit of a new bus route.

(I am so, so sorry.)

found5dollar 02-16-2013 10:47 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
They have already been studying this since 2010.

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/theur...C_31_Notes.pdf

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/theur...ionOptions.pdf

jass 02-16-2013 01:51 PM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
I propose a study on the amount of studies.

Speaking of studies.....remember the Boylston Street redesign? Studied from 2007-2010? Various public meetings? Ready to go in 2012?

Now suspiciously missing from the city website.

BostonUrbEx 02-16-2013 03:02 PM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
This has been going on for a while, and went to one of the Urban Ring meetings where this was one of the main topics.

This is happening. I'm not sure where the funding is coming from.

cybah 02-16-2013 10:05 PM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Commuting Boston Student (Post 166337)
I wish Chelsea all the best of luck in their pursuit of a new bus route.

(I am so, so sorry.)

everyone is so quick to knock a bus. Ya know, it isn't that bad if done right. Chelsea can't get rail.. just too expensive for the number of riders served. A silver line extension would be great.

And seriously ALL the bus routes in Chelsea are clogged to the bring. Last Wednesday I waited over 30 minutes for a 111 at 7am because they were so clogged (reminded me of a japanese subway pictures)

wicked 02-16-2013 10:33 PM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Chelsea does have rail. If it only ran more frequently...

jass 02-17-2013 12:34 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonUrbEx (Post 166356)
This has been going on for a while, and went to one of the Urban Ring meetings where this was one of the main topics.

This is happening. I'm not sure where the funding is coming from.

It IS happening, right between the red-blue extension and giving silver line washington a real busway

Commuting Boston Student 02-17-2013 08:32 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cybah (Post 166387)
everyone is so quick to knock a bus. Ya know, it isn't that bad if done right. Chelsea can't get rail.. just too expensive for the number of riders served. A silver line extension would be great.

And seriously ALL the bus routes in Chelsea are clogged to the bring. Last Wednesday I waited over 30 minutes for a 111 at 7am because they were so clogged (reminded me of a japanese subway pictures)

There's plenty of room for light rail in Chelsea, or even heavy rail in Chelsea. A number of routes to get rail there that aren't all that intrusive. The Sullivan-Airport stretch of the Urban ring is an immediate example that springs to mind.

Hell, there's even the option to just fix the problems with the Eastern Route preventing us from bulking up headways on it so that Chelsea can have more commuter trains running each way, every day.

You're right, I'm quick to knock the bus. I've experienced the Washington Street bus too many times not to knock "the bus." You guys are more than deserving of better access to Boston by rail, and you've already compromised down to another crappy bus route that won't functionally be any different from the other five you've already got: underserved and crush loaded.

It's like if someone was offering you an all expenses dinner at Pier 4 and you said "no thanks, I would prefer to have one hundred McDonald's Filet o' Fish sandwiches instead." Come on, aim a little higher!

Shepard 02-17-2013 09:50 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
I'm personally surprised that Blue Line to Chelsea (via Chelsea St bridge) isn't a higher priority than the Blue Line to Lynn. BL Chelsea to my mind would be as quick and easy an extension as you can get, on the level of OL Rozzie and would likely be more transformative. Am I missing something in regards to the feasibility?

F-Line to Dudley 02-17-2013 10:22 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepard (Post 166410)
I'm personally surprised that Blue Line to Chelsea (via Chelsea St bridge) isn't a higher priority than the Blue Line to Lynn. BL Chelsea to my mind would be as quick and easy an extension as you can get, on the level of OL Rozzie and would likely be more transformative. Am I missing something in regards to the feasibility?

They can't do street-running heavy rail. A side impact with a Blue/Orange/Red car is much more dangerous to street traffic than a side impact with a trolley because of all the exposed electrical components underneath. They aren't designed for that protection in mind, and that is why you never ever see new-construction grade crossings allowed with any HRT systems...much less street-running. Doubleplusbad news for all the tanker trucks that have to use Chelsea St.

To branch Blue, it would have to be 100% grade separated. Meaning entirely separate parallel movable bridge, and no ability to have grade crossings anywhere else including the nearly impossible-to-eliminate one at Chelsea Station because of overhead Route 1. All of that a cost-killer when a Green Line branch off Lechmere can accomplish the same service sharing bridge traffic and the impacted grade crossings.

I'd say stick to the UR Phase II script here: LRT mode instead of force-fitting Blue. The service difference isn't nearly so great as the cost difference and logistical hurdles.

HenryAlan 02-17-2013 10:23 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepard (Post 166410)
I'm personally surprised that Blue Line to Chelsea (via Chelsea St bridge) isn't a higher priority than the Blue Line to Lynn. BL Chelsea to my mind would be as quick and easy an extension as you can get, on the level of OL Rozzie and would likely be more transformative. Am I missing something in regards to the feasibility?

That, or an OL to Chelsea, either one would be pretty easy. But as with OL to Rozzie, it won't happen, because it's too obvious.

novitiate 02-17-2013 10:30 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
The leadership in this state still seems far more likely to approve a bus project than any rail extension (I imagine there are still people in Park Plaza trying to figure out a way to avoid building GLX), so I don't blame Chelsea for going for what they can get. I would hope that a successful Silver Line extension now will prove demand should the political will exist for a LRT or HRT extension later.

BussesAin'tTrains 02-17-2013 10:40 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryAlan (Post 166413)
That, or an OL to Chelsea, either one would be pretty easy. But as with OL to Rozzie, it won't happen, because it's too obvious.

It'll be LRV when it happens. A F-Line said you don't do heavy rail at grade crossings, and the LRV would be a part of the UR project. Why do a dead end spur off blue or orange when you can tie it into an LRV system?

F-Line to Dudley 02-17-2013 10:52 AM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by novitiate (Post 166414)
The leadership in this state still seems far more likely to approve a bus project than any rail extension (I imagine there are still people in Park Plaza trying to figure out a way to avoid building GLX), so I don't blame Chelsea for going for what they can get. I would hope that a successful Silver Line extension now will prove demand should the political will exist for a LRT or HRT extension later.

What I don't understand is this: how much bureaucracy does it take to initiate an express bus route?

C'mon...they already turtled under on the real Urban Ring, including Phase I which was just a bunch of crosstown routes. What extra 'gunk' are they proposing for this "CT4-Chelsea"-by-any-other-name that takes 3 years of prelim meetings to get to square one? Something about this has got to be tarted up with way more aesthetic fluff than it needs to be. If they're considering anything more invasive than ADA'ing the would-be stops so this thing's ready to get its foot in the door, they're overthinking it. Including the 'branding' and anything that might require a custom paint job on the bus itself.

This is a Yellow Line project. And that is NOT a bad thing at all for route-priming this corridor. It's absolutely how they should be squeezing limited funds to get useful things with bullish future growth curve up and running. But the more they try to serve this up as a BRT project they obviously have no money to pay for frills the less I'm inclined to believe that this is a serious gesture. C'mon, now..."CT4"-by-any-other-name??? I remember the CT1/CT2/CT3 'branding' being rolled out back in the 90's. Even as overrated as those crosstown lines ended up being the public give-and-take didn't involve a hell of a lot more than 1) "We're doin' this; any questions?", 2) "Speak now with your suggestions about must-have stops", and 3) "Hey, boys, break out the crosstown logo stencil kit in the shop." What--besides ADA considerations--could possibly be more complicated than that to get a Chelsea express up and running???

jass 02-17-2013 01:46 PM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley (Post 166420)
C'mon...they already turtled under on the real Urban Ring, including Phase I which was just a bunch of crosstown routes. What extra 'gunk' are they proposing for this "CT4-Chelsea"-by-any-other-name that takes 3 years of prelim meetings to get to square one? Something about this has got to be tarted up with way more aesthetic fluff than it needs to be. If they're considering anything more invasive than ADA'ing the would-be stops so this thing's ready to get its foot in the door, they're overthinking it. Including the 'branding' and anything that might require a custom paint job on the bus itself.

The whole point of the studies is to NOT do anything.

Look at SL4 to South Station.

Exclusive bus lanes, removing a ton of parking. A pretty decent new bus shelter.

How many meetings did that go through? How much planning?

It was pretty much "lets do this".

Arborway 02-17-2013 03:35 PM

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jass (Post 166426)
The whole point of the studies is to NOT do anything.

Look at SL4 to South Station.

Exclusive bus lanes, removing a ton of parking. A pretty decent new bus shelter.

How many meetings did that go through? How much planning?

It was pretty much "lets do this".

Yep.

Yet reprogramming the D Street lights... utterly imposible after nearly a decade.

I'd love to see a DOT employee just go out there and give the SL signal priority without checking with The Powers That Be. It's literally a few minutes of reprogramming. Unfixing it would be a PR nightmare.

It's also too bad the 28X ran into the moronic "It's not that we object to the plan exactly, but we object to the fact you went to the people of the community first, without going to self-appointed community leaders for a blessing and list of nonsensical changes before that. So we'll refuse to cooperate and send this project to the bottom of the list, somewhere just below 'Commuter Rail to Willimantic, CT' and above 'Red / Blue Connector'."


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