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-   -   Suffolk Downs Redevelopment (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=4887)

Equilibria 09-16-2014 03:06 PM

Suffolk Downs Redevelopment
 
...and Suffolk Downs closes. Probably what would have happened anyhow.

http://www.boston.com/business/news/...sub_headline_1

I wonder if they could pull something like this off here:

http://www.muelleraustin.com/

F-Line to Dudley 09-16-2014 03:19 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Equilibria (Post 212716)
...and Suffolk Downs closes. Probably what would have happened anyhow.

http://www.boston.com/business/news/...sub_headline_1

I wonder if they could pull something like this off here:

http://www.muelleraustin.com/

And if you ever doubted the blighted horse track was just going limp waiting for a humongous government handout to rebuild them the facility of their dreams, look no further.

Good riddance. The city has no use for freeloaders of that kind who pull an intentional grounding for a bailout.



Now, to reimagine that vast expanse of acreage without the BRA ensuring it stays empty for 20 years. . .

Semass 09-16-2014 03:54 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Well, that property is about the size of Assembly Square or the North End (google map it), has two T stops, a highway, and essentially waterfront.
On the other hand it is just all fill between historical islands and is in a flood zone. It will be interesting to watch this.

bigeman312 09-16-2014 04:00 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley (Post 212717)
Now, to reimagine that vast expanse of acreage without the BRA ensuring it stays empty for 20 years. . .

Some crude arithmetic shows me that at an average density for the area (Revere and East Boston), this site would hold approximately 1800 residents. With Somerville's average population density, this site would hold about 3700 residents. Dreaming of some true, dense, transit-oriented development adjacent to the Suffolk Downs T-stop, what if they went hard-to-the-hoop and built a true urban village with a variety of developers. One can only dream...

EDIT: I'm estimating 123 acres via Google maps, yes roughly the size of the North End.

datadyne007 09-16-2014 04:20 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigeman312 (Post 212720)
Dreaming of some true, dense, transit-oriented development adjacent to the Suffolk Downs T-stop, what if they went hard-to-the-hoop and built a true urban village with a variety of developers. One can only dream...

EDIT: I'm estimating 123 acres via Google maps, yes roughly the size of the North End.

It's not just the Suffolk Downs T-stop. There's also Beachmont! The development area has TWO heavy rail T-stops. The potential is infinite.

jdrinboston 09-16-2014 04:31 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by datadyne007 (Post 212721)
It's not just the Suffolk Downs T-stop. There's also Beachmont! The development area has TWO heavy rail T-stops. The potential is infinite.

The site is a bit of a transportation paradox. The value of the two Blue Line stations is invaluable. The location along the Logan flight path will limit its potential of any residential component of a proposed mixed use development.

Equilibria 09-16-2014 04:31 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by datadyne007 (Post 212721)
It's not just the Suffolk Downs T-stop. There's also Beachmont! The development area has TWO heavy rail T-stops. The potential is infinite.

Sure, but the reason I brought up Mueller is that Eastie, Revere and Winthrop are likely to balk at housing any denser than what's there. Boston doesn't really have a project that's building a transit-accessible urban single-family neighborhood, and that kind of housing is important too. It's denser than a suburb, but less dense than, say, Assembly.

I can see all the complaints about 1A traffic and school populations coming a mile away, though, and Boston isn't as nimble as Somerville can be in partnering with developers.

Archibald "Harry" Tuttle 09-16-2014 04:33 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Four words.

RE-VO-LU-TION

datadyne007 09-16-2014 04:41 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Archibald "Harry" Tuttle (Post 212724)
Four words.

RE-VO-LU-TION

<3

Mongo 09-16-2014 04:51 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Archibald "Harry" Tuttle (Post 212724)
Four words.

RE-VO-LU-TION

Would be a perfect site for a Olympic stadium turned revs stadium

MBTAddict 09-16-2014 06:26 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Archibald "Harry" Tuttle (Post 212724)
Four words.

RE-VO-LU-TION

My thoughts exactly. This would be actually perfect. Would a stadium need all of that space? Could it be built in such a way to be part of a mixed-use development and make it feel like a "neighborhood" stadium?

chr31ter 09-16-2014 07:33 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MBTAddict (Post 212731)
My thoughts exactly. This would be actually perfect. Would a stadium need all of that space? Could it be built in such a way to be part of a mixed-use development and make it feel like a "neighborhood" stadium?

Google Maps isn't always the greatest, but if you look at Suffolk Downs, and then you look at Sporting Park in Kansas City (...currently the Gold Standard in American Soccer Stadium Construction), you could probably fit three Sporting Parks in Suffolk Downs' track footprint.

It makes a TON of sense to build some sort of Assembly Row-type development with a Revolution Stadium as sort of an "anchor" as a soccer (Revolution AND Breakers?) and concert venue.

Maybe you could construct the stadium in a way that it could be used for events such hockey and/or basketball?

Arlington 09-16-2014 07:45 PM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdrinboston (Post 212722)
The site is a bit of a transportation paradox. The value of the two Blue Line stations is invaluable. The location along the Logan flight path will limit its potential of any residential component of a proposed mixed use development.

Hasn't stopped Alexandria, Georgetown or Arlington in DCA's flight paths.

Heck, new construction (with brick facing, double glazing, superinsulation, and air conditioning) is waay more soundproof than the rest of these neighborhoods.

MBTAddict 09-17-2014 05:19 AM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chr31ter (Post 212735)
Google Maps isn't always the greatest, but if you look at Suffolk Downs, and then you look at Sporting Park in Kansas City (...currently the Gold Standard in American Soccer Stadium Construction), you could probably fit three Sporting Parks in Suffolk Downs' track footprint.

It makes a TON of sense to build some sort of Assembly Row-type development with a Revolution Stadium as sort of an "anchor" as a soccer (Revolution AND Breakers?) and concert venue.

Maybe you could construct the stadium in a way that it could be used for events such hockey and/or basketball?

My worry is that this makes so much sense that it won't happen.

stellarfun 09-17-2014 05:54 AM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Re: Suffolk Downs. And what use was made of Wonderland -- with its own heavy rail subway station -- after it closed?

The difficulty with residential development on large parts of Suffolk Downs are the petroleum terminals, wetlands, and new floodplain maps, not necessarily in that order.

Shepard 09-17-2014 09:26 AM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Suffolk Downs T stop is already the least busy heavy rail stop in the system. Now, in the absence of racing, who would use the it except for residents of a few small streets on the north side of Orient Heights? It's going to be a ghost station...

Equilibria 09-17-2014 10:04 AM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stellarfun (Post 212740)
Re: Suffolk Downs. And what use was made of Wonderland -- with its own heavy rail subway station -- after it closed?

The difficulty with residential development on large parts of Suffolk Downs are the petroleum terminals, wetlands, and new floodplain maps, not necessarily in that order.

I actually don't think the petroleum terminals will be as much of a problem as I'd supposed in the past. They can be quite isolated off to one side of the site, with green barriers in between and probably a fairly wide access road. The site of the current track is plenty large for a residential component - I suspect the far side of Tomesello Way would be given over to big box stores, which don't really care about the tanks.

Wonderland wasn't ballyhooed as a development opportunity when it closed, it just... closed. Imaging matters. Also, Wonderland, though close as the bird flies, has been roped in to the larger issues of development on Revere Beach and Wonderland Station TOD, which has slowed things down.

Not to mention the different municipalities involved, the slightly more central site, and the fact that some sites just get adopted by the right developers with the right priorities, and I don't think Wonderland's languishing is a perfect indicator for the future of Suffolk Downs.

chr31ter 09-17-2014 10:39 AM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Talked to a friend of mine today who had an intriguing idea... the Revolution and Celtics should partner together to purchase Suffolk Downs.

Why the Celtics would be interested:
  • Would transition from being a tenant at TD Garden to an owner of a new arena.
  • Would retain all revenues from parking, concession, luxury box sales, etc.
  • Could become a rival to TD Garden for winter concerts and other events.

Why the Revolution would be interested:
  • The site fits the team's stated criteria for the kind of land they're interested in building on.
  • Ability to "right-size" their stadium.
  • Added notoriety by partnering with a higher-profile franchise.

Possible Mutual Benefits:
  • Could make a stronger case for infrastructure improvements since the site would not sit dormant nearly as much.
  • Possibility to save money in building costs by either building one large facility, or building two facilities that are adjacent to each other.
  • Land is possibly large enough to fit two facilities, parking, and some sort of limited-scale mixed-use development.

datadyne007 09-17-2014 10:52 AM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Perhaps we need to spin this discussion off into its own Suffolk Downs Redevelopment thread.

Bergeron37 09-17-2014 10:56 AM

Re: MA Casino Developments
 
Why does everyone always think the Celtics are eager to move?


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