Intercontinental Hotel

[xec]

http://static.flickr.com/55/150025652_e604b9933d_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/53/150025653_5462658b08_o.jpg

[kz1000ps]

That's as weightless as the building has ever looked...it seems to be positively alive versus the comparatively static background. Beautiiful photos

[justin]

Almost like someone Photoshopped it out of the picture... Weird. What is it about the glass?

justin

[ezcheese]

this is looking really good.

[quadratdackel]

Yeah, it took me a while to realize that this is from actual photographs and not an artist's rendering. (I haven't been down that way in a while.)

[DowntownDave]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/80Broad500Atlantic/Intercont0624-03.jpg


Reflections:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/80Broad500Atlantic/Intercont0624-05.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/80Broad500Atlantic/Intercont0624-06.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/80Broad500Atlantic/Intercont0624-04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/80Broad500Atlantic/Intercont0624-02.jpg

[TheBostonian]

You are spoiling us with all these updates.

[ablarc]

Years ago, the buildings in this area erupted in turquoise. The turquoise disappeared for a while, and now it's back. The turquoise district?

[garbribre]

^What you talkin' 'bout?

[ablarc]

Turquoise was a popular color in the fifties and sixties. Many buildings in this area featured that color, including the one to the far right in the first pic. One old brick building was even painted head to toe in the color turquoise.

Then the color fell out of fashion, and bit by bit the turquoise all disappeared.

Now it's back.

[garbribre]

^ Don't recall that at all. I'd like some visual confirmation. My dad has parked on Fan Pier (until recently) since the 60s, so I used to walk by that location frequently. Hmmm, maybe that's where his turquoise color preference originated? :lol:

[ablarc]

Don't have any pictures. That was a long time ago.

[naushoncap122]

I apologize if this has been discussed but I have been away from Boston for the past two weeks in Hong Kong and was wondering if there is a date set for an opening. Also, how high end is the brand "Intercontinental" supposed to be, I have never stayed in one nor have I heard much about them in general.

[bosma]

The website says: "opening fall 2006 reservations available from December 4th"

Here is the link to the residences. I believe they start at 775K. I am probably going to purchase unit K on the 21st floor.

http://www.residences-intercontinental.com/

[castevens]

To answer you guys' questions, photographically speaking, the reason it looks so weightless in the first 2 pictures is because a cloud was blocking direct sunlight (making all the buildings around it "dark and dismal." Buth this building just reflected the partly cloudy beautiful sky to the southeast of Boston. The same picture taken a few minutes later when the cloud overhead passed by would be different (although I still believe the building would have a large effect of weightlessness, just because it is glass).

[IMAngry]

I was told several weeks ago that closings on the 14th floor are starting around October 1st, and going up, by floor, after that, with 19th floor around first week of November.

bosma, are you using an agent to buy? Have you already been in there?

[lexicon506]

I am probably going to purchase unit K on the 21st floor.

You're kidding right?? For a second I actually believed you!

[bosma]

yes kidding, I am sure any "prospective tenant" could take a tour.

[xec]

http://static.flickr.com/102/269681739_8146976942_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/122/269681740_e4c6e2f532_b.jpg

[xec]

The Intercontinental Hotel is open for business. Here are some pics taken a couple of weeks ago.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/bb_Intercontinental-20061104-089.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/d_Intercontinental-20061104-078.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/zbd_Intercontinental-20061104-086.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/bc_Intercontinental-20061104-088.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/db_Intercontinental-20061104-083.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/ea_Intercontinental-20061104-069.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/df_Intercontinental-20061104-044.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/eb_Intercontinental-20061104-017.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/eg_Intercontinental-20061104-042.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/f_Intercontinental-20061104-030.jpg

Looks like Independence Wharf will be opening this side of the building to face the park.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/___0611180018.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/___0611180016.jpg

[TheBostonian]

"Looks like Independence Wharf will be opening this side of the building to face the park."

I really look forward to seeing more existing buildings do this sort of thing along the greenway. By the way, what are those cylinders?

[briv]

Xec, these are great. Independence Wharf and the Intercontinental should put you on the payroll. Pretty stuff.

[justin]

The triangle is especially cool.

justin

[kz1000ps]

History Meets Hip at InterContinental


By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | November 28, 2006

'The Burger Trilogy" item on the menu at Miel restaurant in the new InterContinental Boston Hotel includes lobster, "kobe beef crowned with foie gras," and tuna nicoise. In a departure for Boston, the brasserie is open 24/7.

At adjacent RumBa, the wide, U-shaped bar is made of pewter, there are 70 premium brands of rum on hand, and cocktail tables are fashioned from second-hand Louis Vuitton trunks. A 45-seat Moulin Rouge champagne bar is trimmed in wool fabric and tufted red leather.

Such stylish details are a departure for 60-year-old InterContinental Hotels & Resorts, and for Boston too, with its conventional standards of architecture, dining, and leisure. InterContinental, the world's largest operator of hotel rooms, is now focusing on the US market -- and pursuing a younger, trend-driven demographic.

"It's a much needed property in Boston," said Bryan Rafanelli, chief executive of Rafanelli Events, which produces high-end parties for the fashionable set. "It's got a cool vibe, but it's still sophisticated."

InterContinental has generally operated properties that fit into local landscape and tastes. But the InterContinental Boston has two 22-story towers dressed in panels of mirrored glass. There isn't a red brick in sight. The exterior walls and surfaces are concave or convex, not flat.

With a "soft opening" three weeks ago and a grand opening not planned till spring, the InterContinental is already a bracing presence in Boston.

"It's another of the new buildings that's going to force us to think hard about them," said M. David Lee, a partner at the architecture firm Stull and Lee Inc., and an adjunct professor at Harvard's Graduate School of Design. "To some extent, we've been a little bit too complacent about architecture here," he said. "Without going crazy, we can stand to make ourselves a little uncomfortable in exploring new territory."

For most of its history, InterContinental operated large hotels under that name in foreign locations -- homes for diplomats and businessmen after World War II. Now, with 3,700 facilities worldwide, the company has familiar brands such as Holiday Inn, Crowne Plaza, and Candlewood Suites. InterContinental is its top-of-the-line flag.

The finished product at 500 Atlantic Ave. wrapped $310 million of high-priced living around two 268-foot-high stacks used to ventilate the Big Dig tunnels. The building houses 424 hotel rooms, as well as 130 condominiums, some of which recently sold for $725,000 to $5.5 million.

From its menus to dark wenge wood paneling to crinkly exterior glass, the InterContinental Boston represents "a cross-pollination of cultures," said Timothy P. Kirwan, general manager. But Elkus/Manfredi Architects of Boston intentionally applied aspects of Boston's maritime past to the modern structure.

"The original high-rises of Boston were the tall ships," said principal Howard Elkus. So the tops of InterContinental's two glass towers equal the height of the masts of the old tall ships.

And the curvature of the building facades, intended to mimic the billowing sails, "represents optimism and a new face for Boston in the 21st century," Elkus said.

Rum, featured in the bar, was a predominant trade item in Colonial Boston, and the pewter bar surface recalls the trade of an early Boston hero. "Paul Revere would love it," said Kirwan. "It's Boston in a new light."

The marble-floored lobby extends from the Atlantic Avenue entrance through to a plaza on the Fort Point Channel overlooking the site of the Boston Tea Party. Dark Italian marble and a two-story wall of contrasting yellow Texas limestone flank the escalators to the second floor.

There, the smaller of two ballrooms, the Abigail Adams, looks out on the South Boston Waterfront. The wallpaper is hand-painted on panels, glazed, and mounted.

Up another level, the 10,000-square-foot Rose Kennedy Ballroom -- with room for 1,200 people -- is lined with red leather and mahogany. Hotel walls feature original works from Boston artists.

By the time of the grand opening scheduled for March, InterContinental is expected to have opened yet another dining spot that stretches the imagination: Sushi-Teq. With outdoor dining on a two-acre waterfront plaza, it will specialize in raw fish, premium tequilas, and salsa music.

Boston is a good place for InterContinental to roll out its first wave of properties aimed at a younger audience. The Hub has among the highest percentages of 20-somethings within its population -- 23 percent -- of urban areas nationwide.

"Our demographics are 15 years ahead of other hotels in Boston," said Kirwan, the general manager.

Patrick B. Moscaritolo, chief executive of the Greater Boston Convention & Visitors Bureau, toured the new hotel just before it opened and said it "breaks the mold in so many different ways."

For example, putting a rum bar next to a gaily decorated French restaurant, having the large InterContinental Gardens promenade on the water, and a large lobby, with large guest rooms upstairs, Moscaritolo said, all push the limits of the Boston hotel scene.

"It's what today's global and business traveler is looking for -- wide, comfortable, open space," he said.

Still, for some, the InterContinental's style might take some getting used to.

After midnight on a recent Saturday, two couples in their 30s who had wandered into the French provincial brasserie restaurant Miel (which means "honey") were seated in white chairs amid the bright yellow decor. "I feel like I'm in 'Alice in Wonderland,' " said one woman.

Surveying a menu of socca pancakes, veloute of asparagus soup, and duck maigret, she looked up at food and beverage manager Michael Cohen, and asked: "Do you have nachos?"

Thomas C. Palmer Jr. can be reached at tpalmer@globe.com.
? Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.

[Joe_Schmoe]

I've got to call B.S. on this:
"The original high-rises of Boston were the tall ships," said principal Howard Elkus. So the tops of InterContinental's two glass towers equal the height of the masts of the old tall ships.
And the curvature of the building facades, intended to mimic the billowing sails, "represents optimism and a new face for Boston in the 21st century," Elkus said.

There are buildings out there that look like sails, the Sydney Opera house being the classic example, and this does not look like sails. That's fine with me as I'm sick of the "buildings that look like things besides buildings" fad--the Moshe Safdie museum on the greenway being the most glaring example. The Intercontinental is obviously just a re-hash of their Time-Warner center and the rest is just trying to fit their square peg in a round hole. I didn't seee them talking about billowing sails when it was located in the middle of Manhattan.

[Waldorf]

Have you seen this building at night? There is a beam of light that shoots up from between the two "masts". It's pretty cool. I will post some night shots.

[kz1000ps]

I've got to call B.S. on this:
"The original high-rises of Boston were the tall ships," said principal Howard Elkus. So the tops of InterContinental's two glass towers equal the height of the masts of the old tall ships.
And the curvature of the building facades, intended to mimic the billowing sails, "represents optimism and a new face for Boston in the 21st century," Elkus said.

I was very tempted to put those two paragraphs in bold to highlight the stupidity, but decided to let others find it on their own, like you did. The idea that the developer chose to build his project to the height of 19th maritime vessels on purpose is flat out lame. Rather, it sounds like Elkus is trying to do some after-the-fact justification.

[Joe_Schmoe]

I've got to call B.S. on this:
"The original high-rises of Boston were the tall ships," said principal Howard Elkus. So the tops of InterContinental's two glass towers equal the height of the masts of the old tall ships.
And the curvature of the building facades, intended to mimic the billowing sails, "represents optimism and a new face for Boston in the 21st century," Elkus said.

I was very tempted to put those two paragraphs in bold to highlight the stupidity, but decided to let others find it on their own, like you did. The idea that the developer chose to build his project to the height of 19th maritime vessels on purpose is flat out lame. Rather, it sounds like Elkus is trying to do some after-the-fact justification.

Right, I'm sure that the engineers who built the Big Dig ventilation towers were thinking about the height of ship masts.

[cityrecord]

Rather, it sounds like Elkus is trying to do some after-the-fact justification.

Not really. I talked with him about 500 Atlantic before it was built and this was something that he was talking about circa 2002-3.

[kz1000ps]

OK, but it still strikes me as being a bit arbitrary. The sail metaphor I can see more easily, but the whole "they represent hope and the future and a new cosmetic job" crap is said by everyone towards the latest project. Excuse me as I yawn while you state the typical.

But at least we got some purrdy glass.

[kz1000ps]

I put a new hard drive in the Mac and got all my photos organized, so in the name of gaining back what was lost in the crash last year, here's a couple u/c pics:

February '05:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4695/dscf0088pi0.jpg

July '05:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8918/dscf00881sr8.jpg

[briv]

You found the InterContinental's baby pictures.

Awww, wook at him, wook at him!

[KentXie]

What a midget compared to its brother in NYC. Nah Im kidding. I love how the building looks.

[Smuttynose]

I just saw The Departed and it's interesting watching some of the fight scenes, which were filmed on the roof of an old building in the Seaport. You get a great view of the Intercontinental under construction.

[tmac9wr]

^^ Haha yea I'm in South Carolina for school and so when I saw the movie last fall I got a little bit of an added bonus b/c I got to see some great shots of the InterContinental haha.

[bigboybuilder]

I actually commented to my wife that the fights were shot in the Spring of 05 based on how far along the curtain wall was on the water side

[kz1000ps]

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2124/img4232al3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[bowesst]

Sometimes I forget that building is wrapped around a vent.

[JANAM]

Does anyone know if the lawns out back of the hotel are public or private property. They are called "Intercontinental Gardens" but I believe they may still belong to the City.

[stellarfun]

Does anyone know if the lawns out back of the hotel are public or private property. They are called "Intercontinental Gardens" but I believe they may still belong to the City.

I don't think the city owns anything. The Intercontinental was built on MassPike property; i.e., it is built around the biggest vent building for the entire Big Dig. I suspect the Intercontinental has a very long lease on the ground-rights.

[pelhamhall]

Actually, I think Vivien Li and her gang stole the rights to all waterfront property from rightful land-owners and handed them to the Commisar of Land Use at the Kremlin, um, I mean City Hall.

Seriously, I don't think you can "own" waterfront property anymore in Boston - she has it set up so that the developers have to cede their lawful rights to the Harborwalk - or at least grant permanent access to the public.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing... but it is communism at its most basic form - the state seizure of privately-owned land.

[castevens]

I have a request.

Does anyone have any picture of the tall cement vent structures that were on this site prior to the building of the Intercontinental Hotel? I'd like to see the property pre-construction.

Thanks!

[stellarfun]

I have a request.

Does anyone have any picture of the tall cement vent structures that were on this site prior to the building of the Intercontinental Hotel? I'd like to see the property pre-construction.

Thanks!

http://www.walshgroup.com/images/experience/lan/9660-catvent.jpg

Its vent building #3. Here is a link to the picture on the contractor's site.

http://www.walshgroup.com/projectl.aspx?ProjectID=313

Just, think, that vent doesn't have scrubbers installed. With scrubbers, it would be a new Tommy Tower.

I think this aerial shows the vent tower rising, and does it also show the Silver Line tunnel?

http://jrshelby.com/btp/vents.jpg (http://jrshelby.com/btp/vents.jpg)

As I recall, this was a very deep hole; as many feet below surface as rose above the surface.

[castevens]

Thanks so much stellar!

[briv]

Live Local's Bird's Eye Views are taken before the Intercontinental was built. It's like a time machine.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/intercontinental_vent_4.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/intercontinental_vent_3.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/intercontinental_vent_2.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/intercontinental_vent_1.jpg

[stellarfun]

Great pictures Briv.

The Big Dig project used to have an extensive set of construction pictures, often updated monthly. But the galleries are gone. I'm surprised that the MTA doesn't put up an historical archive of the construction.

[castevens]

Thank you too briv! very helpful

So now the functionality of those vents (releasing the toxic fumes from the tunnels below) is now built into the intercontinental and released from the top of the new hotel?

(or, are the actual vents still standing within the new hotel?)

[stellarfun]

Thank you too briv! very helpful

So now the functionality of those vents (releasing the toxic fumes from the tunnels below) is now built into the intercontinental and released from the top of the new hotel?

(or, are the actual vents still standing within the new hotel?)

The steel frame for the hotel went up around the vents. From Briv's pictures, I'm 98% percent sure that is the Silver Line tunnel on the SE corner of the site, which means it also runs under Russia Wharf. Wonder how much the MBTA paid for that easement?

[kz1000ps]

The vents are still there:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/6498/asdfwi0.jpg

[JANAM]

So does any one know the status of the land and lawns at the rear of the hotel, is it private or public?

[Beton Brut]

My guess is semi-public (public access, privately funded maintenance).

Stop by with a Frisbee or whiffle-ball -- see what happens.

[stellarfun]

The lawn area is most likely hotel property, as part of the ground rights lease. They have a bar out there, do they not?

The alleys and walkway next to the water are public, the latter is part of Harborwalk.

[BarbaricManchurian]

Wow, I never knew the vents were that tall. This building is even better than expected then, it looks great and it blocks a potential eyesore. I never noticed any vents there ever, as I only saw the hotel post-construction. Totally hidden, you would have no idea unless you knew. Perfect.

[castevens]

Wow, I never knew the vents were that tall. This building is even better than expected then, it looks great and it blocks a potential eyesore. I never noticed any vents there ever, as I only saw the hotel post-construction. Totally hidden, you would have no idea unless you knew. Perfect.

Agreed. Now if they can make the one in the center of Atlantic Ave into an Apple Store like one of our esteemed posters had proposed . . .

[kennedy]

Are there filters/carbon scrubbers in the vent buildings or are they just big chimneys?

[statler]

^^ Nope. UFP's getting spewed out all over the place.

I'd stay away. Certain death, y'know.

[whighlander]

Actually, due to a fire set in an abandoned Interstate tunnel in West Virginia -- the air inside the tunnels is at least as clean if not cleaner than street-level downtown City of Boston air.

The Fed's set some awesom fires down in W Va -- and then they designed the massive Big Dig ventilation system to handle the toxic emissions of the "world-class" fires (when in 5th gear) -- so that even when in 1st and 2nd gears there is a tremendous volume of air moving through the tunnels

Contrast the I-93 or I-90 today with your remembrance of the "Old South Station Tunnel" -- especially on a bad Ozone day in the summer

I had the privelage of coming back froim RI one August through the Ol' STT -- when a truck dropped a crate of industrial-syle scissors as it was entering the Ol' STT Northbound -- everything in the tunnel just behind the truck had multiple flat tires -- or was stuck behind a vehicle (including numerous buses) with flats. For quite a while nobody bothered to turn-off their engines -- so I spent 2 hours breathing in hot tunnel air (never been quite the same since)

Anyway --the pix of the vent towers were spectacular

Anybody got any earlier pix of the giant hole with its massive superstructure rising up from 120 feet below ground

The first time I saw it -- I was deeply impreseed -- and ever since I've always thought that there was a massive missed opportunity to film some superhero crawling around in that hole -- might have paid for a good part of the BIg Dig!

Westy

[Boston02124]

late dec 2008 http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-17.jpg

[bbfen]

As an aside to the pic just posted (great shot!), tonight at 9:00 PM is a Reggae Champagne Party in RumBa and the usually-exclusive Moulin Rouge lounge. I may or may not be there. Talk to a stranger, it could be me.

[kz1000ps]

Hey that's a great shot.. worthy of being on their website's front page. I'd email the webmaster your pic and see if you get any response.....

[kennedy]

Off topic-ish, but does anyone know if the vent towers include carbon scrubbers? If not, why? And how expensive/difficult/effective would it be to add them?

[Boston02124]

today front and back http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/018-9.jpg http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/033-5.jpg

[SeamusMcFly]

I'm not sure if you meant to, but you named the sides in order of showing them, and it's funny that that is true. Even though the "back" (facing the Greenway) would I guess technically be the front since that is the main entrance and approach. The true front is facing the water, and is quite handsome. I'm still not a fan of the back, and strangely it's mostly because of the one half being concave and the other being convex. It just jars it too much.

Good pictures btw.

[Boston02124]

Your right the front to me is the side facing the Greenway, But I guess it could go either way!

[tobyjug]

Off topic-ish, but does anyone know if the vent towers include carbon scrubbers? If not, why? And how expensive/difficult/effective would it be to add them?

Calling Ned! Come in please! (He probably knows.)

[statler]

Somewhere in the other mess of a thread it was discussed, but damned if I'm going to dive into that cesspool to try to find it.

[tobyjug]

My recollection of Ned's take on it was that there were not scrubbers. But I admit I might be misremembering!

[Ned Flaherty]

. . . does anyone know if the vent towers include carbon scrubbers? If not, why? And how expensive/difficult/effective would it be to add them?

There are no filters, scrubbers, or equivalent at any of the 8 vent sites built to service the I-93 tunnels, because in the late 1980s the necessity hadn?t yet been recognized, as the public health risk was virtually unknown in most circles.

So far, no one has published a practical analysis of the costs vs. benefits of cleansing air before it leaves the I-93 or I-90 tunnels._ But on 14 November 2008 the Secretary of Energy & Environmental Affairs told the owners of the proposed Fenway Center that their Final Environmental Impact Report must (a) quantify the public health risks; and (b) mitigate those risks._ The owners have not said when they will finish those analyses.

. . . the air inside the tunnels is at least as clean if not cleaner than street-level downtown City of Boston air . . .

No, it isn?t._ It was thought so, by late 1980s standards, when the Big Dig was designed._ But two decades later, the conclusions are different.

Generally, both inside and outside the tunnels, air along major rail/road corridors poses a far greater public health risk than was presumed in the late 1980s._ Since that time, particulate matter (coarse, fine, and especially ultrafine) has been linked to significant increases in the rates of birth defects, incurable illness (lung disease, heart disease, cancer), and premature mortality._ Both the I-93 and the I-90 corridors are abundant with this particulate matter air pollution.

Addressing the problem along the Big Dig is harder than along the Turnpike, because the I-93 corridor is already finished, whereas the I-90 railways and roadways run under air rights sites that are still mostly undeveloped.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/Ned_Flaherty/VentImpactAreas.jpg

[kennedy]

No way man, not here too!

[tobyjug]

Now, now, my young friend. Haven't you ever stood near one of these stacks (never mind lived near one) and wondered what was coming out of it?

[KentXie]

No way man, not here too!

He was told to come here. Anyways, his contribution here is better than the ones in CC and I encourage Ned to start looking at other threads.

[briv]

He was told to come here. Anyways, his contribution here is better than the ones in CC and I encourage Ned to start looking at other threads.

Seconded.

[Patriots_1228]

how is the stuff coming out of the tunnels any different than what comes out of a car above ground?

[tobyjug]

how is the stuff coming out of the tunnels any different than what comes out of a car above ground?

I am no expert, so I'm just guessing. My guess is that qualitatively, it isn't different. But the dispersion area is more focused, so that the localized impact of the vent plume is deleterious, as compared to a more generalized dispersion from ordinary passing traffic.

[SeamusMcFly]

Deleterious? Have you been reading your OSHA handbook? That's the only other time I have seen that word.

I'm also not an expert, but since they built the vent stacks to divert the dirty air from the tunnels, and they obviously made them as tall as they did for some reason. Wouldn't that reason be that at that height the exhaust would be diverted from where people breathe, and to also allow for the exhaust air to become dilluted with the outside "fresh" air, so as not to cause problems.

I'm all about cleaning up the air and air pollution, but those same cars are causing the same damage to the air when they are not in the tunnel. So the only real purpose of the height of the stacks would be to protect the people (and the greenery) on street level. Otherwise we would just have grates on the sidewalks.

The only "real" way to take care of this, would be to have everyone driving zero emissions cars. Which compared to the late 1980's that are mentioned above, our cars are much more enviro-friendly. As has been mentioned earlier, the bigger problem is the diesel exhaust belching semi's, and diesel trains as well which I guess would be covered with the pike.

[stellarfun]

There are no filters, scrubbers, or equivalent at any of the 8 vent sites built to service the I-93 tunnels, because in the late 1980s the necessity hadn?t yet been recognized, as the public health risk was virtually unknown in most circles.

So far, no one has published a practical analysis of the costs vs. benefits of cleansing air before it leaves the I-93 or I-90 tunnels._ But on 14 November 2008 the Secretary of Energy & Environmental Affairs told the owners of the proposed Fenway Center that their Final Environmental Impact Report must (a) quantify the public health risks; and (b) mitigate those risks._ The owners have not said when they will finish those analyses.



No, it isn?t._ It was thought so, by late 1980s standards, when the Big Dig was designed._ But two decades later, the conclusions are different.

Generally, both inside and outside the tunnels, air along major rail/road corridors poses a far greater public health risk than was presumed in the late 1980s._ Since that time, particulate matter (coarse, fine, and especially ultrafine) has been linked to significant increases in the rates of birth defects, incurable illness (lung disease, heart disease, cancer), and premature mortality._ Both the I-93 and the I-90 corridors are abundant with this particulate matter air pollution.

Addressing the problem along the Big Dig is harder than along the Turnpike, because the I-93 corridor is already finished, whereas the I-90 railways and roadways run under air rights sites that are still mostly undeveloped.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/Ned_Flaherty/VentImpactAreas.jpg
Of all of Ned Flaherty's b.s. posts, this is perhaps the ultimate (so far): oblivious to science, ignorant of engineering, dumb as to regulation.

The public health risk of mobile source emissions (those from motor vehicles) was well known 40 years ago, which was why emission controls began to be Federally regulated under the Clean Air Act.

Ned's fetish for UFPs colors his view of other pollutants that are emitted by cars and trucks. If one abates fine particulates from diesel engines, one also abates UFPs. The effort to further abate fine particulates from diesels will result in a further reduction of UFPs. Air pollution has always been addressed by controls on the source(s), not by scrubbing or filtering the ambient air.

The amount of pollution emanating from cars, trucks, buses in the Big Dig tunnels, or from the old Central Artery that preceded the tunnels, is generally a function of: number of vehicles, emissions per vehicle, and the time it takes a vehicle to travel through a tunnel or along the old Artery.

There is probably less pollution being emitted by cars and trucks today traveling through the tunnels than there was from a similar number of cars trucks traveling along the Artery. The reason being a slow engine, or an idling engine, emits much more pollution than an engine running at efficient RPMs. So stop and go traffic, or idling traffic is a substantially bigger source of pollution than if the same traffic was proceeding at speed.

To scrub ambient air, whether using dry or wet scrubbers, is expensive, prohibitively so. Aside from the massive structures that would be needed, you would probably create more pollution from generating the power to operate the scrubbers than the scrubbers would remove from the air passing through the vent buildings.

If one really wanted to improve the air around Clarendon St., one ought to crusade for the MBTA to buy electro-diesel locomotives, which can run on either electric power (the overhead catenary at Back Bay) or by diesel. IMO, that would reduce the pollution (coarse, fine and ultra fine particulates) in that area significantly.

[bbfen]

There is probably less pollution being emitted by cars and trucks today traveling through the tunnels than there was from a similar number of cars trucks traveling along the Artery. The reason being a slow engine, or an idling engine, emits much more pollution than an engine running at efficient RPMs. So stop and go traffic, or idling traffic is a substantially bigger source of pollution than if the same traffic was proceeding at speed.

In my former apartment, I overlooked the Mass Pike, and worked from home a portion of the time. I'm not wading too far into fine particulate matter, but will say that for measurable chunks of the day, at least one direction is stop/slow traffic. I don't want anyone unfamiliar with the road to be misled into thinking it's 65mph traffic 24/7.

[Ned Flaherty]

. . . To scrub ambient air, whether using dry or wet scrubbers . . . you would probably create more pollution from generating the power to operate the scrubbers than the scrubbers would remove from the air passing through the vent buildings. . .

No._ This is not categorically true, for 3 reasons.

Firstly, comparing two pollution sources to simplistically decide which one produces ?more pollution? or ?less pollution? is valid only when the pollution types are identical, which is not the case when the two sources are mobile engines stationary power plants.

Secondly, even if both the mobile sources and the stationary sources were identical polluter types, and even if figures suggested a net increase in the quantity of pollution itself after considering both air cleansed via tunnel vents and air polluted via generators, cleansing still has an overall benefit when the tunnels are in a higher-density population area and the generators are in a lower-density area, especially after the results are adjusted by federal calculations for lost wages, increased health care, and early mortality.

Thirdly, although the technology exists, no one has built or even designed a customized, tunnel-based scrubbing system of the type that would be used over I-93 and I-90._ Neither the inefficiencies of scale nor the economies of scale are quantified yet, so it is impossible to make any ?net increase/decrease? argument at this time.

Bottom line:_ No one can categorically say ? yet ? whether scrubbing results in a net increase or decrease in pollution, and each scrubbing application has to be designed and cost-benefit analyzed individually._ The owners of the Fenway Center air rights proposal have been working on such an analysis since the state ordered it on 14 November 2008._ Their Final Environmental Impact Report was originally due in spring 2009, but now is delayed indefinitely._ Whenever it is published, it should be informative, because the Secretary of Environment said he will require additional analyses in the event it is not informative.

[bbfen]

even if both the mobile sources and the stationary sources were identical polluter types...cleansing still has an overall benefit when the tunnels are in a higher-density population area and the generators are in a lower-density area

no one has built or even designed a customized, tunnel-based scrubbing system of the type that would be used over I-93 and I-90.

I'm not being personal here, I'm actually fairly disinterested in this crusade (maybe I shouldn't be, since I live within spitting distance of the masspike). But this is what I got from your post. Spun differently:

You want something that doesn't exist be installed, and it doesn't matter if there's pollution in a lower-density (read:lower income) area because more people in higher density neighborhood will have cleaner air? I mean, that's simplifies it, but that's it.

I admire what I think is your end goal----cleaner air----but the message is diluted by your tactics, rhetoric and zealotry.

[kennedy]

I admire what I think is your end goal----cleaner air----but the message is diluted by your tactics, rhetoric and zealotry.

"

[bbfen]

I'm not being personal here, I'm actually fairly disinterested in this crusade (maybe I shouldn't be, since I live within spitting distance of the masspike). But this is what I got from your post. Spun differently:

You want something that doesn't exist be installed, and it doesn't matter if there's pollution in a lower-density (read:lower income) area because more people in higher density neighborhood will have cleaner air? I mean, that's simplifies it, but that's it.

I admire what I think is your end goal----cleaner air----but the message is diluted by your tactics, rhetoric and zealotry.

Ned, I regretted this post all day. I think I came off a bit personal here and I apologize. You're not an elected official, you're one guy trying to bring light to an issue you think's important to the public health.

I just encourage you, in whatever way you can, to self-moderate and self-edit, because I sit in the same meetings as you do. I sometimes see the resigned sighs and rolled eyes, and this is one forum (literally) where I can reach out.

So: in 20 years, we may all look back and say, "Golly, he was right!" I think you'll get farther building bridges than being verbosely combative is all I'm trying to say.

[Ned Flaherty]

. . . this is what I got from your post . . . You want something that doesn't exist be installed . . .

If you say it?s what you got, then perhaps it?s what you got._ But it?s not what I said.

Technologies that can cleanse tunnel air already exist._ Applying those technologies to a tunnel requires custom design, custom specification, and custom construction, because there is not yet any model available for copying._ The technology exists; it?s the model for adapting it that doesn?t.

. . . lower-density (read:lower income) . . .

It?s not always true that lower density = lower income._ For example, the 64 households in Mount Washington, Massachusetts have a per capita income of $50,149, whereas the 8,289 households in Burlington, Massachusetts have a per capita income of $30,732.

. . . this is what I got from your post . . . it doesn't matter if there's pollution in a lower-density . . . area because more people in higher density neighborhood will have cleaner air . . .

It may be what you got._ It?s not what I said.

Stellarfun thinks that eliminating pollution might cost more than enduring it, so I pointed out that the human cost of pollution rises as the number of people exposed rises, and thus the savings from protecting large numbers of people can justify the cost of added power generation.

You ask whether adding pollution to a low-population area ?doesn?t matter? if it reduces pollution in a high-population area._ The public health costs in a low-population area are lower than in a high-population area, because fewer people incur them._ So, once again, Stellarfun?s theory fails, because he ignored the fact that the added power generation costs can be outweighed by the savings in public health costs.

So long as society insists on polluting, then polluting in lower population areas is better than in higher population areas._ That?s not to say that it ?doesn?t matter? at all, only that it?s less harmful._ Ultimately, all added pollution matters in some way or other, because humans? polluting activities are outpacing the earth?s ability to heal herself.

[Ned Flaherty]

. . . you'll get farther building bridges than being verbosely combative is all I'm trying to say. . .

I agree wholeheartedly._ A forum works best when it?s the ideas that are on trial, not the speakers, so I try to just state my research findings, without personal emotion, and hope others will just discuss the facts._ But three characteristics of this forum make that a challenge.

Some members complain that they need more information from me, while others want only little bits at a time, which leaves most posts a disappointment to both groups.

Then other members complain that my messages are too factual, and not emotional enough.

And when I posted facts that others disliked, instead of challenging or discussing those facts, they attacked me personally, casting aspersions about my age, experience, education, employment, hobbies, work schedule, sleep habits, number of friends, marital status, sexual orientation, home address, number of windows, whether my neighborhood association filed meeting minutes with the Secretary of State over the last 14 years, and plenty more.

In any forum about the built environment, name-calling, obscenities, suggestions to make prank calls, and death wishes all betray a juvenile imbecility that can be hard to ignore.

Like this one: ?So why don?t you stage a camp out on the trench to save it since you love the view so much? Or better yet, jump off a bridge over the Pike and get run over.? (Barbaric Manchurian, Columbus Center thread post #236, 26 August 2007)

Or this one from a forum moderator: ?this guy Ned deserves having a stake driven through his heart, if only for being a huge dick.? (VanShnookenraggen, New Tower(s) Planned For Prudential Center thread post #301, 17 March 2009)

Sorry if this reply is more longer than either of us would like, but I hope your advice about not being verbosely combative extends equally to all forum members.

[stellarfun]

If you say it?s what you got, then perhaps it?s what you got._ But it?s not what I said.

Technologies that can cleanse tunnel air already exist._ Applying those technologies to a tunnel requires custom design, custom specification, and custom construction, because there is not yet any model available for copying._ The technology exists; it?s the model for adapting it that doesn?t.



It?s not always true that lower density = lower income._ For example, the 64 households in Mount Washington, Massachusetts have a per capita income of $50,149, whereas the 8,289 households in Burlington, Massachusetts have a per capita income of $30,732.



It may be what you got._ It?s not what I said.

Stellarfun thinks that eliminating pollution might cost more than enduring it, so I pointed out that the human cost of pollution rises as the number of people exposed rises, and thus the savings from protecting large numbers of people can justify the cost of added power generation.

You ask whether adding pollution to a low-population area ?doesn?t matter? if it reduces pollution in a high-population area._ The public health costs in a low-population area are lower than in a high-population area, because fewer people incur them._ So, once again, Stellarfun?s theory fails, because he ignored the fact that the added power generation costs can be outweighed by the savings in public health costs.

So long as society insists on polluting, then polluting in lower population areas is better than in higher population areas._ That?s not to say that it ?doesn?t matter? at all, only that it?s less harmful._ Ultimately, all added pollution matters in some way or other, because humans? polluting activities are outpacing the earth?s ability to heal herself.

Somewhere in the bowels of the Columbus Center thread, I posted a rough calculation of the volume of air one would need to scrub to rid the air of most of the ultrafine particles. And IIRC, I ventured that the scrubber would be taller and larger than any of the Columbus Center buildings themselves.

Scrubbers, whether wet or dry, are designed to operate in a closed system. The pollutants in the air stream are confined, and there is an efficiency and efficacy that results from scrubbing a limited volume of air. Not so with any tunnel vent. Tunnel vent systems draw in enormous amounts of ambient air to replace the air being vented out.

Back in the Columbus Center thread, I also posted pictures of a scrubber used to reduce pollutants from diesel locomotives. The exhaust pipes for a diesel engine are positioned under a hood, which captures the diesel exhaust and scrubs it. The state of California neither requires nor does the railroad utilize a system that would scrub the ambient air, full of diesel exhaust, in the rail yard. If you go to fire stations, you may notice flexible tubing hanging down that is used to capture and vent diesel exhaust in the fire house. Similar principle to what is used in the rail yard.

In the Columbus Center thread, you repeatedly called for the air to be scrubbed. IIRC, you even claimed in one post that you had spoken to 'experts' who said it could be done, and was already being done (giving no examples, again IIRC). Now you concede that while the technology may exist -- no one disputes that -- it has yet to be applied in a way that you once demanded the developers of Columbus Center to employ, and the Commonwealth to require.

The cost benefit test that I used did not mix apples and oranges like you are now doing by bringing in public health costs. I simply posited that the added pollution from electric power generation required to operate the massive scrubbers needed to scrub ambient air would exceed the amount of pollutants removed by the scrubbers. That's how inefficient your proposal is.

As for public health risks associated with living near a busy rail line and a major highway, perhaps the Love Canal solution is an optiion to be considered. Too expensive to abate the pollution from the Love Canal site, the government bought out the homeowners and moved them away. (I might add a similar approach was used in Salem. Homeowners living near a new sewage treatment plant complained of the odor. The sewage treatment district said, 'okay, we'll buy your house and you can move.' The district bought the houses, and tore them down. Didnt buy the houses that abutted the backyard, and they're still there, and little odor these days too.)

[Patriots_1228]

I must say I agree with bbfan and Ned that people are too quick to pull out the insults on Ned.

Its one thing in that Columbus Center thread, which is really such a mess im surprised people aren't spamming it with porn or sending out death threats, but its another thing when Ned takes a rare step outside that thread and posts somewhere else and immediately gets jumped on.

[BarbaricManchurian]

I agree wholeheartedly._ A forum works best when it’s the ideas that are on trial, not the speakers, so I try to just state my research findings, without personal emotion, and hope others will just discuss the facts._ But three characteristics of this forum make that a challenge.

Some members complain that they need more information from me, while others want only little bits at a time, which leaves most posts a disappointment to both groups.

Then other members complain that my messages are too factual, and not emotional enough.

And when I posted facts that others disliked, instead of challenging or discussing those facts, they attacked me personally, casting aspersions about my age, experience, education, employment, hobbies, work schedule, sleep habits, number of friends, marital status, sexual orientation, home address, number of windows, whether my neighborhood association filed meeting minutes with the Secretary of State over the last 14 years, and plenty more.

In any forum about the built environment, name-calling, obscenities, suggestions to make prank calls, and death wishes all betray a juvenile imbecility that can be hard to ignore.

Like this one: “So why don’t you stage a camp out on the trench to save it since you love the view so much? Or better yet, jump off a bridge over the Pike and get run over.” (Barbaric Manchurian, Columbus Center thread post #236, 26 August 2007)

Or this one from a forum moderator: “this guy Ned deserves having a stake driven through his heart, if only for being a huge dick.” (VanShnookenraggen, New Tower(s) Planned For Prudential Center thread post #301, 17 March 2009)

Sorry if this reply is more longer than either of us would like, but I hope your advice about not being verbosely combative extends equally to all forum members.

You have a long memory, but I truly apologize for that comment. Sorry.

[crash575]

stellarfun is completely right about scrubbing the volume of air exchanged in a highway. While it 'might' be possible the cost of doing so would be enormous.

In college while study environmental economics we often discussed issues like this. Even if this highway scrubber existed the benefits don't outweigh the costs. It's cheaper and more far more efficient to regulate the cars emissions. eg CAFE standards, changing the fuel, or going electric and increasing pollution control at power plants. Keeping things the way they are and attempting to apply scrubber technology to a completely different, open, system will never work.

point source vs. non-point source pollution

[Boston02124]

Calling Ned! Come in please! (He probably knows.) Geez I thought this thread was almost dead,then I posted a couple of pix's and Kennedy asked a question and then this thread turned into Columbus Center part 2 lol! at any rate I just like to post my pix's!

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/2444.jpg

[kennedy]

Funny thing is, I asked that question months ago...

Oh, and great picture!

[TikiNYC]

I actually think that Boston is getting some great hotels, but Im not sure what to make of this design, not being an architecture expert.

Heck, I feel like with all this architecture, I should start a Boston group on the Sleep New York Forums (http://sleepny.lefora.com/forum/)where I am admin. I will definately put a link in the architecture/New York Icons sub forum there.

[palindrome]

From BBJ: (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2011/02/intercontinental-hotel-expected-to.html)

The InterContinental Boston, burdened by a near $200 million debt load, is performing ?significantly below expectations? and is expected to default on a sizable mezzanine loan in the near term, according recent financial filings.

[stellarfun]

From BBJ: (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2011/02/intercontinental-hotel-expected-to.html)

IIRC, there was mention some time last year that they were trying to sell off the underground garage.

[TheRifleman]

I really like the design to this development but I feel that they never had a good plan to activate the ground floor towards Greenway.

[JohnAKeith]

So, the InterContinental Hotel says it can't fill its rooms. Meanwhile, the Boston Convention and Exhibition Center, maybe .75 miles away, wants to build another hotel.

A match made in heaven!

[HenryAlan]

I really like the design to this development but I feel that they never had a good plan to activate the ground floor towards Greenway.

It is a bit too fortress-like. Once you get inside, it's quite nice, and the canal side is really pretty cool.

[TheRifleman]

InterContinental Hotel expected to default on mezzanine loan
Boston Business Journal - by Craig M. Douglas
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 1:52pm EST - Last Modified: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 2:43pm EST


Craig M. Douglas
Real Estate Editor
Email: cdouglas@bizjournals.com

The InterContinental Boston, burdened by a near $200 million debt load, is performing ?significantly below expectations? and is expected to default on a sizable mezzanine loan in the near term, according recent financial filings.

On Feb. 11, Fitch Ratings downgraded three classes of Newcastle CDO VIII, a collateralized debt pool that includes an $18.5 million mezzanine loan secured by the InterContinental. The hotel?s loan, which totaled $45 million at issuance in 2006, is subordinate to another $175 million mortgage balance extended that same year by a unit of Deutsche Bank, according to servicer and regulatory filings.

According to Fitch, the NewCastle CDO contains only one mezzanine loan, and it is backed by a 424-room full service hotel in Boston. The ratings firm did not identify the hotel in question. However, the same NewCastle CDO also received multiple downgrades in a recent Moody?s Investors Service report. A Moody?s spokesman confirmed this week that the portfolio?s sole mezzanine loan is in fact the $18.5 million balance secured by the InterContinental.

In Fitch?s report, the ratings firm said the hotel has performed below expectations since the loan was issued. In reference to the $18.5 million mezzanine loan, Fitch said it modeled a term default and full loss for investors in the Newcastle CDO.

Gary Barnett, the chief executive and founder of Extell Development Co., the InterContinental?s New York-based owner, said the mezzanine loan ?is performing and paying interest.? Asked to comment on the hotel?s performance and Fitch?s analysis, Barnett said, ?I have no reaction to that. They can write what they want. ...I think the hotel is a beautiful hotel.

?As to its financial expectations ... I think the hotel industry?s come through a rough patch and I?m confident things will continue to get better.?

In a phone interview Thursday, Tim Kirwan, the InterContinental?s general manager, said the hotel was performing well and was unaffected by the issues surrounding its mezzanine debt. He described the hotel as "the flagship" in the InterContinental chain, adding that "from an operating standpoint, we're not unhappy at all." Kirwan conceded that the InterContinental Boston has performed below expections laid out during its development but said it has performed well in the interim, despite the economy's troubles. The hotel opened in 2006.

The InterContinental?s challenges, as well as those at other luxury hotels throughout Greater Boston, have been well documented since the economy?s troubles took root in late 2007. In a November 2009 interview with the Boston Business Journal, Kirwan said rates were off 10 percent on a year-over-year basis, adding that parts of the year were ?dismal.? It is unclear whether things rebounded in 2010, although Kirwan said at the time that significant improvement was unlikely. In general, hotel billings and occupancy rates fell throughout Greater Boston for most of 2010.



Read more: InterContinental Hotel expected to default on mezzanine loan | Boston Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2011/02/intercontinental-hotel-expected-to.html

[stellarfun]

Rifleman, the link to that article was posted on February 16. (See post #91.) You are a week late.