Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport [Archive]

KentXie

06-07-2006, 11:25 PM

Waterfront developer chooses Fan Pier architects
By Scott Van Voorhis
Thursday, June 8, 2006

Long-delayed plans for the largest waterfront project in Boston?s history took a major step forward yesterday, with Fan Pier developer Joseph Fallon naming the $1 billion-plus project?s design team.

Fallon, a veteran waterfront and city developer, is turning to a pair of out-of-state firms and a local mainstay to craft the architecture of what has long been touted as a new, harborside neighborhood.

The architects will design four new buildings worth $1 billion - two office high-rises, a luxury hotel with condos and a separate condo residence.

?Fan Pier is on its way to becoming a thriving and economy-boosting neighborhood for Boston,? said Mayor Thomas M. Menino.

Winning the coveted Fan Pier design contracts are the following firms:
# Hill Glazier Architects will design Fan Pier?s luxury hotel residence with top-floor condos, as well as a condo tower. The California firm?s portfolio includes the famed ?celebrity favorite? Bacara Resort & Spa in Santa Barbara.

# BBG (Brennan Beer Gorman Architects LLP) is a New York firm that has designed skyscrapers and hotel towers across the globe, from Malaysia and Dubai to Washington, D.C.

# Boston-based Elkus Manfredi Architects has built a powerhouse reputation both locally and nationally, designing the Intercontinental hotel and condo tower complex in Boston and the 43-story Paramount residential tower in San Francisco, to name just two.

?We?ve selected some of the most respected architects in the country to work with us,? Fallon said.

aws129

06-08-2006, 06:37 PM

Wow.

Talk about unexciting....I'm pretty disappointed with these selections. Very safe (bland) work.

xec

06-09-2006, 09:32 PM

From the BRA:

THREE RENOWNED ARCHITECTS NAMED FOR FAN PIER PROJECT

Two office buildings, luxury hotel/residences and condo tower planned -- $1 Billion in construction under design marks key milestone on Waterfront

BOSTON ? The Fallon Company has selected three renowned architectural firms to design nearly $1 Billion worth of mixed-use development on Fan Pier -- two Class A office buildings, a five-star hotel with residences, and luxury condominiums.

Joseph F. Fallon, president of The Fallon Company ? marking another major milestone for Fan Pier ? announced that four buildings, totaling 1.8 million square feet of prime space along Northern Avenue is now under design. Selected to join the Fan Pier development team are these nationally and internationally acclaimed firms:

Hill Glazier Architects http://www.hillglazier.com/ from California is designing a five-star hotel with top floor residences, and a luxury condominium tower. Both will be adjacent to the new Institute of Contemporary Art (ICA), set to open this fall.

Hill Glazier specializes in the design of luxurious hotels and resorts and has handled hundreds of projects in more than 25 countries, working with hospitality industry icons like the Four Seasons and the Ritz-Carlton.

Their portfolio includes the famed ?celebrity favorite? Bacara Resort & Spa in Santa Barbara, Calif. and Montage Resorts and Spas Residences worldwide. Fallon is working now to select a flagship hotel for Fan Pier.

BBG (Brennan Beer Gorman Architects LLP) http://www.bbg-bbgm.com/ of New York is designing an office building at Fan Pier with approximately 500,000 square feet of premier space. BBG has extensive experience in mixed-use master planning, commercial design and upscale hospitality and urban residential projects around the United States and the world.

BBG designed buildings that shape skylines from Dubai and Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok and Saudi Arabia. Among its signature buildings in the firm?s portfolio are Dubai Metals & Commodities Center Tower, One Marina Place in the Middle East, the Lion Center in Malaysia, Peninsula Hotels in New York and Bangkok, the Mandarin Oriental Hotels in New York and Washington, and the restoration of the fabled St. Regis Hotel in New York.

In Boston, BBG is providing design services to the new 793-room Westin Boston Waterfront Hotel, also being developed by The Fallon Company. The Westin Boston Waterfront is set to open June 21.

Elkus Manfredi Architects http://www.elkus-manfredi.com/ of Boston is designing a second office building with nearly 500,000 square feet of office space, along with roughly 300,000 feet of retail space on Fan Pier. The Elkus Manfredi portfolio includes a high-profile retail and hotel project in Chicago; The Shops at Columbus Circle at the Time Warner Center in New York; Pacific Place in Seattle; The Grove in Los Angeles adjacent to CBS Studios; the 43-story Paramount residential tower in San Francisco, and the streetscapes and city plazas at City Place in West Palm Beach.

Locally, Elkus Manfredi designed Boston?s acclaimed 31-story 33 Arch Street and 28 State Street as well as the Millennium Pharmaceuticals Building at University Park and 88 Sidney Street in Cambridge.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino says, ?Many companies in Boston are looking for more office space. Office towers are filling up again, and people are moving back into and living in the city. Fallon?s plans for Fan Pier are a reality that will appeal to companies who want to move their office headquarters to the waterfront, and to local residents who want to call this premier destination home. Fan Pier is on its way to becoming a thriving and economy-boosting neighborhood for Boston.?

?We?ve selected some of the most respected architects in the country to work with us to make Fan Pier a world-class project for Boston,? said Fallon. ?This represents about $1 Billion worth of development now under design. Things are really starting to happen on Fan Pier. The fact that there?s been so much interest from these architectural firms is a testament to the strength of the commercial and residential real estate markets in Boston.?

Fan Pier spans approximately 21 acres along Northern Avenue (nine city blocks and three million square feet) and is considered one of the most desired waterfront development sites on the East Coast. Along with the office buildings, five-star hotel, condominiums and lifestyle high-end retail, Fan Pier will offer new public parks, the Institute of Contemporary Art, a Harbor Walk and a protected marina. It is designed to be a vibrant, pedestrian-friendly area and boasts breathtaking views of the water and downtown skyline with easy access to the Financial District, Logan International Airport, the Massachusetts Turnpike and Interstate 93.

Press Contact: Steven Pellegrino, Kortenhaus Communications, email: spellegrino@kortenhaus.com, office: 617-778-5770.

Release Date: June 7, 2006

JS38

06-13-2006, 03:18 AM

Short background of note that might be interesting first:

I had an interview with CBT a while back, didnt end up working there, but it was to work as an urban designer. Its basically just two people running the UD operations over there right now, they are trying to expand, but still interesting that these two are basically largely responsible for such large projects as Northpoint, Fan Pier etc.

At the time, they were said to be designing the public realm for the Fan Pier development. As the article above claims three other architectural firms have been selected, at least for the first phase, I dont know how relevant the below link is, but I thought it was interesting just because its the first new renderings concerning Fan Pier in a while.

Anyways, go to the CBT website, click on projects and then urban design, and then the first and last photos under the Fan Pier project are new, rather glassy and futuristic. What do you all think? Trying to reflect the ICA? Bring a new modern aesthetic into the brick, wooden, steel warehouse district of nearby Fort Point?

Alas, it will be interesting to see the preliminary designs for Fallon's Fan Pier buildings when they come out in a few months...

atlantaden

06-13-2006, 08:32 AM

I can only hope that the buildings on Fan Pier will look half as good as the ones shown in the drawings. I didn't realize that the smaller, low rise was the ICA at first. The renderings compliment the ICA very well which I think was the intention. Thanks for the website info.

garbribre

06-13-2006, 11:30 AM

Short background of note that might be interesting first:

I had an interview with CBT a while back, didnt end up working there, but it was to work as an urban designer. Its basically just two people running the UD operations over there right now, they are trying to expand, but still interesting that these two are basically largely responsible for such large projects as Northpoint, Fan Pier etc.

At the time, they were said to be designing the public realm for the Fan Pier development. As the article above claims three other architectural firms have been selected, at least for the first phase, I dont know how relevant the below link is, but I thought it was interesting just because its the first new renderings concerning Fan Pier in a while.

Anyways, go to the CBT website, click on projects and then urban design, and then the first and last photos under the Fan Pier project are new, rather glassy and futuristic. What do you all think? Trying to reflect the ICA? Bring a new modern aesthetic into the brick, wooden, steel warehouse district of nearby Fort Point?

I don't see a link.

Ahhhh, that was you. I accused somebody else some months ago of interviewing with CBT and wanted to know the ouctome and if he was withholding info. :)

briv

06-13-2006, 11:44 PM

There are also several older, out-of-date images, but here are the two from CBT's site that appear to be current:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/cbt2.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/cbt1.jpg

palindrome

06-14-2006, 12:01 AM

as old as they are, i don't think they are that bad at all. Dare i say i like them!

justin

06-14-2006, 02:05 AM

Generic glass and steel, but still beats generic prefab PoMo. If anything, it shows that the ICA is influencing the architects working in the vicinity, which is just as we want it.

justin

JS38

06-14-2006, 03:56 AM

Good article from the Boston Business Journal about waterfront development in Boston:
http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2006/01/23/focus1.html?jst=s_cn_hl
Nothing really new here, but an encouraging article showing how development along the waterfront in general, including some long-stalled projects, now all seem to be coming to fruition, should be impressive in a few years or so if all goes as planned...

LeTaureau

06-14-2006, 09:28 AM

I like those renderings! If balconies are incorporated into the design scheme and not just treated as utilitarian, they can enhance the project. That is somewhere I would like to live.

statler

06-14-2006, 09:34 AM

I'm a bit confused. Maybe it's just the rendering but the buildings right behind the ICA look quite close. I thought the ICA owned the rights to that land for future expansion?

callahan

06-14-2006, 09:55 AM

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/cbt1.jpg

Mmmm. I like how crisp and clean the harbor water looks. Makes me wanna jump in and splash around. :P

PaulC

06-14-2006, 10:04 AM

I was always disappointed at the amount of exhibit space at the new ICA and I thought there was no room to expand. Do you know if they have plans to expand someday?

callahan

06-14-2006, 10:08 AM

I was under the impression that they now have 65,000 sq. ft. That's a lot.

statler

06-14-2006, 10:33 AM

I was always disappointed at the amount of exhibit space at the new ICA and I thought there was no room to expand. Do you know if they have plans to expand someday?
I can't remeber how I got that idea. I seem to remember reading it somewhere and even seeing a picture with an outline of the lot where they would expand. Maybe I'm just confusing it with the convention center.

Ron Newman

06-14-2006, 11:44 AM

The convention center definitely has a space allocated for future expansion. Haven't heard that about the ICA.

tmac9wr

06-14-2006, 11:57 AM

I think those renderings look really good....how old are they?

statler

06-16-2006, 07:26 AM

Waterfront luring eateries
Ventures hope to snag clients with gimmicks, ties to famous chefs

By Kim-Mai Cutler, Globe Correspondent | June 16, 2006

First came office space, then a hotel, followed by a mammoth convention center on the rejuvenated South Boston Waterfront. But try finding a place to eat.

??Unless you?re into seafood, you?re in trouble,?? said financial analyst Tim Kirwan, sitting near the World Trade Center last week as he ate a sandwich from home. ??Anything would be an improvement.??

There aren?t many restaurants in the developing Seaport District, but a batch of new eateries are finally coming. To thrive, the restaurants seem in need of a famous chef, a big chain to back them up, or a gimmick to lure patrons to an area where parking spaces outnumber pedestrians.

The latest offshoot of the Legal Sea Foods empire, LTK Bar and Kitchen, opened this week. It boasts features none of the other Legals have: touch-screen computerized menus and a place to dock your iPod.

Sauciety, opening next week at the new Westin Boston Waterfront, will let guests choose gourmet sauces to go with cuts of meat and fish.

x And when the new Institute of Contemporary Art opens in September, it will have The Water Cafe, from celebrity chef Wolfgang Puck.

Adjacent to the South Boston Waterfront, the new InterContinental Boston hotel is planning a 24-hour French brasserie, with help from two-star Michelin chef Jacques Chibois. The hotel will also open Sushi Teq, where salsa dancers serve sushi and tequila.

??You have to be a little unique. You have to have a little something to get people over here,?? said Pasquale Presa, executive chef at Sauciety and the Westin. ??We?re starting from an area that has nothing.??

Other restaurateurs may also dive in. Chef Barbara Lynch of No. 9 Park and B&G Oysters fame has looked at space in the area. The Italian food chain Sal?s Pizza is also hunting for a spot.

??A lot of people are dancing around it,?? said Legal Sea Foods? chief executive, Roger Berkowitz, referring to restaurateurs? interest in the waterfront. ??They?re very curious, but I?m not sure a lot of people are committed.??

Without a critical mass of people and attractions on the waterfront, restaurant owners said, it is difficult to decide when to jump in. Berkowitz sees a chicken-and-egg problem: Who should move in first? The people or the restaurants?

The seaport has long been heralded as Boston?s next big neighborhood, but development has been slow. In the 1990s, city officials and developers envisioned turning 1,000 acres into a thriving district with glitzy hotels, upscale apartments, shops, and cafes. But disputes between city officials, property owners, and developers, plus a cumbersome permitting process, have dashed many plans. Construction is picking up, but dining options have been limited to about a dozen or so restaurants, most notably Anthony?s Pier 4, The Barking Crab, and Aura Restaurant & Bar.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino pitched the waterfront to restaurants and retailers last month at a Las Vegas shopping center convention. One incentive: The area is a federally designated ??empowerment zone,?? making a business eligible for up to $3,000 in tax credits for every local employee it hires.

??I don?t think it?s a gamble any longer,?? Menino said. ??People see a potential for the waterfront they didn?t see before.??

??Restaurants can be part of a general revival in attracting outside traffic,?? said Stephan Weiler, an economist for the Federal Reserve Bank in Kansas City, Mo. But he added that bringing in residents rather than visitors would be more viable in the long run.

For now, restaurateurs are betting their concepts will drum up much-needed attention for the area. If Sauciety succeeds, the Westin may use the concept elsewhere as its own restaurant ??mini-brand,?? said Brian Abel, director of food and beverage.

Bigger chains like Legal see the waterfront as a chance to reinvent themselves. LTK, which stands for Legal?s Test Kitchen, is a bid for a younger, tech-savvy clientele with tapas-style plates and a twist on Boston classics. For example: a lobster roll on grilled flatbread instead of on hot dog buns, with bacon and avocado.

??There?s a generally pretty large workforce, whether it?s at the Design Center or the World Trade Center,?? Berkowitz said. ??And there?s a number of people out there in their 20s and 30s that are eating a little differently and are a little more adventurous.??

Some worry the new high-end restaurants will price out the more affordable cafes. The Boston Harbor Association?s executive director, Vivien Li, whose group pushes for a clean and accessible harbor, said the district needs more everyday food and retail outlets.

??At lunchtime, people want places where they can get quick food,?? she said. ??They only go to fancy restaurants for special occasions or if it?s on the business account.??

Kim-Mai Cutler can be reached at kcutler@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/06/16/waterfront_luring_eateries/)

statler

08-18-2006, 07:01 AM

Banners fly as a new day draws near for Fan Pier

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | August 18, 2006

Fan Pier, used as a gravel parking lot for a couple of decades, finally gets some color this week.

Fallon Co., which purchased the long-languishing development site a year ago, yesterday began erecting banners and a billboard that will herald the start of construction of a mega-development, scheduled for next year.

``We're going to show everybody after 20 years it's real, it's here," said Fallon partner Richard L. Martini.

Fallon, the third owner in 20 years of the 21-acre site on the South Boston Waterfront, has so far planned a first phase of a $1 billion-plus development that will include four buildings along Northern Avenue. One building will be a five-star hotel and an undetermined number condominiums, a second building will have condos alone, and two will be office buildings.

The first building, with hotel, is scheduled to open in 2009.

The developers will erect two dozen colorful banners on poles around the site that will display ``Fan Pier -- It's Here" and ``World Class Boston" messages. The banners will be three to five feet wide and 20 to 30 feet tall. They will carry a new Fan Pier logo.

The Fan Pier branding campaign was created by the Charlestown marketing firm Kelley Habib John.

``There will be different images of what the site will be -- great office buildings, great restaurants," said Martini.

A large billboard also will address the future of Fan Pier. And later, the old chain-link fence around the lots will get a similar cosmetic treatment, to further dress up a dreary site.

``It's a vast area," Martini said. ``People who haven't followed it don't know what area it covers. This will start to give it a presence."

The filled land was once a railroad yard. Previous owners, including the late restaurateur Anthony Athanas of neighboring Pier 4, envisioned an entire neighborhood on the site. But either City Hall didn't like the plans, or when it did, the market moment had come and gone. Athanas lost the property to his then-partner, the Pritzker family, after a long ugly legal battle in the 1980s.

Fallon bought the land, fully permitted, from the Pritzkers and hopes to time the development so that the buildings open when both the residential and office markets are strong.

Boston developer Dean Stratouly said the marketing campaign might not help Fallon land commercial tenants, but it could build excitement among potential buyers of the residential units.

``You start laying some teasers out, start building some market awareness" with some signs, he said. ``It's building a brand, articulation of this vision, setting some expectations."

Fallon, with the Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co., paid $115 million for the property, including a large marina, last year, and now has architects working on various stages of the development.

Hill Glazier Architects of Palo Alto, Calif., is designing the hotel and residences, as well as a luxury condominium tower.

BBG of New York, which designed the Fallon-developed Westin Boston Waterfront Hotel, which opened in June, will do a 500,000-square-foot office building on Fan Pier.

And Elkus | Manfredi Architects of Boston is designing a second, similar-size office building. The firm planned the overall Fan Pier site and will design about 300,000 square feet of retail space.

Fallon Co. will begin showing renderings of what the buildings will look like to the public late in the fall.

Another major development in the area is nearing completion: The Institute of Contemporary Art, positioned out on Fan Pier's marina, was scheduled to open in September, but that date has been pushed back at least until October. The museum is moving out of its far smaller space in the Back Bay.

Thomas C. Palmer Jr. can be reached at tpalmer@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/08/18/banners_fly_as_a_new_day_draws_near_for_fan_pier/)

statler

09-01-2006, 04:15 PM

Hynes, Morgan Stanley buy 23 acres of Boston waterfront
Deal worth more than $200 million

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | September 1, 2006

Boston developer John B. Hynes III and the financial services company Morgan Stanley today bought 23 acres of South Boston Waterfront land from Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. for a little over $200 million.

The deal for the prominent but undeveloped land formerly owned by Frank H. McCourt Jr. was completed rapidly -- Hynes said the parties "sprinted to the finish line" -- only about a month after it was first reported that Hynes and his partner were negotiating with News Corp.

Hynes confirmed the deal had closed today, and an official announcement was expected later today.

News Corp. acquired the land from McCourt this year, the final transaction in McCourt's purchase two years ago of the Los Angeles Dodgers major league baseball team and substantial real estate that went along with the team and Dodger Stadium. News Corp. said in June it wanted to sell or find a development partner for the site.

Hynes, president and chief executive of Gale International, successfully developed One Lincoln Street in Boston, now the headquarters of State Street Corp. Hynes also is a partner with the real estate firm Vornado, based in New York, to redevelop the historic Filene's block in Boston.

While the South Boston Waterfront, including about 24 acres owned by McCourt, has remained empty and been used largely for parking cars for a couple of decades, the area now seems to be rising from the launching pad. Developer Joseph F. Fallon bought 21-acre Fan Pier, on the water adjacent to the News Corp. land, a year ago and plans to start the first of nine buildings on that site next year.

The Westin Boston Waterfront hotel, a headquarters in for the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center, opened in June, and Fallon's two residential buildings are nearly completed, with a Marriott Renaissance hotel scheduled to open in the same block late in 2007.

LTK, or Legal Test Kitchen, a restaurant with high-tech features like iPod music docking stations at individual tables, owned by Legal Sea Foods chief executive Roger Berkowitz, opened this summer. It has been regularly crowded in an area that for years has been unpopulated after 6 p.m. and criticized as having a dearth of places for people to congregate.

Hynes, on his way to play golf after what he said was a grueling week of final negotiations on the sale, said development on the McCourt site is expected to be more than six millions square feet -- or at least double what is permitted and planned on Fan Pier. It will include residences, office space, and a substantial amount of retail and hotel use -- in roughly one-third amounts of each.

In the complex arrangement with Morgan Stanley, Hynes, who initially owns about 10 percent of the project, could increase his share if the project is particularly successful. He said he hopes to have permits with the city and state secured within two years and begin with a first phase of about two million square feet of development, of various uses, immediately after the plan is approved.

The whole 23 acres could be completed in about a decade, if market conditions are right, Hynes said.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/09/01/hynes_buys_waterfront/)

Lurker

09-01-2006, 10:07 PM

There was a covered entry pavilion as part of the ICA concept to connect the museum better to the existing street-scape, it was value engineered out, but the drawings were do such that it could be built at a later date.

bostonman

09-03-2006, 07:23 AM

Just another article I found:

Hynes in waterfront deal: Developer plans massive
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter

Saturday, September 2, 2006

Local developer John B. Hynes III and a major New York financial firm have wrapped up a blockbuster $203 million deal for a key piece of the Hub?s waterfront.

The Gale Co., of which Hynes is a top executive, and joint venture partner Morgan Stanley yesterday closed on a deal for a 23-acre site near the harbor and just across the street from Anthony?s Pier 4 and the Moakley federal courthouse.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino, who for years has pushed for development on a site considered key to the buildout of the city?s waterfront, praised the deal in a statement.

Decades of inaction on the site had acted as a drag on plans to redevelop South Boston?s waterfront, which has long been a collection of parking lots and piers in the shadow of the Financial District.

Global media baron Rupert Murdoch?s News Corp. is the seller, having taken control of the property just a few months ago from a longtime local business executive.

?This site remained underdeveloped far too long,? Menino said in a press statement. ?John Hynes is a local developer with a proven track record in this city and I look forward to hearing his plan.?

The devloper, who built State Street?s new headquarters tower and is the grandson of an esteemed 1950s Boston mayor, envisions a ?Seaport Development Project? with as much as 6 million square feet of new construction. That?s enough to fill six Prudential towers.

Hynes said the first step will be to draw up a master plan for the 23 acres, likely in a number of phases over several years.

Retail, whether in a Copley Place-like Mall or in a string of smaller shops and stores, will be a major element. There will also be a significant office and residential development. There is also the opportunity for significant height in the development as well, anywhere between 15 and 25 stories, Hynes said.

?After months of negotiations and several weeks of intense discussions, we are done,? Hynes said.

Global media giant News Corp. acquired the waterfront land - considered one of the most valuable development tracts on the East Coast - a few months ago from longtime owner and Hub business executive Frank McCourt. McCourt sold the land to News Corp. as part of a series of transactions that enabled him to buy the Los Angeles Dodgers from the media giant.

statler

09-06-2006, 04:14 AM

Fan Pier shaping up as a Back Bay for 21st century
Instead of stately red brick, plans for the upscale neighborhood call for lots of glass and irregular angles, all to maximize water views

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | September 6, 2006

Decades in the making, Fan Pier is finally taking shape on paper as a new Boston neighborhood, with its own identity, like the Back Bay. But the two couldn't look less alike.

Both are on filled land, both along scenic urban bodies of water. But the Back Bay, with its blocks of 19th century red-brick row houses, conveys history and tradition. Developer Joseph F. Fallon's look for Fan Pier is 21st century, emphasizing walls of glass, irregular angles, and varying heights -- all the better to maximize views and more views.

The first four buildings of a total of eight include two balconied hotel and residential towers of mostly greenish glass, with wings of precast yellowish masonry. Closer to downtown, two office buildings also show a lot of glass, but some is blue; one building has a light brown masonry, the other off-white.

``There are very few opportunities like this one," Fallon said in a recent interview. He bought the long-stagnant Fan Pier development site for $115 million a year ago and is scheduled to unveil the specifics of his plan for the 21 acres next week, with a presentation at the Westin Boston Waterfront hotel. ``You really can do something special here," he said.

On a recent morning in his office, looking out at the nearly completed Park Lane Seaport residences Fallon is building nearby on Northern Avenue, the developer stacked and restacked plastic blocks, demonstrating how the Fan Pier buildings and blocks took shape.

Some buildings have multiple floors on one side of a block -- but are low, only a couple of floors, on the other side. The valleys those varied heights create maximize views from the buildings toward the downtown skyline and Boston Harbor, Fallon said.

``Glass is becoming a prominent design element in most of the buildings," Fallon said, sometimes accented with stone or precast masonry. In one office building, ``a major feature is a bay-style element that captures city views," he said.

``These are real projects, not the phantom projects we've heard about in the past," Mayor Thomas M. Menino said yesterday. ``You've got to applaud Joe for moving forward in very difficult times, when people are pulling back because of construction costs."

Fallon hired architects from California and New York as well as Boston to design the first phase of the 2.9-million-square-foot, nine-block neighborhood, which is expected to evolve over a decade.

First to be built are a combined luxury hotel and residential building, close to the nearly completed Institute of Contemporary Art and along Northern Avenue. It is scheduled to go into construction next year.

That will be followed, depending on the status of the (ascending) office and (declining) residential markets, by another residential building and two 490,000-square-foot office buildings. Those four will complete the Northern Avenue sweep of Fan Pier and fill in the block between Anthony's Pier 4 and the Moakley federal courthouse.

The second residential building is tentatively planned for construction in 2008. Start dates for the two office buildings depend largely on the response from businesses in need of large amounts of space starting in about 2009.

Fallon has begun to solicit interest in the office space from businesses. CB Richard Ellis/New England is the leasing agent for Fan Pier.

These first four buildings include the tallest planned for the entire site -- a 234-foot office building next to the courthouse -- and one of the three lowest, a 175-foot residential building.

That residential building and the combined hotel and condominium building that will start next year, near Anthony's Pier 4, were designed by Hill Glazier Architects of Santa Barbara, Calif. The tallest office building is the work of Brennan Beer Gorman Architects LLP of New York; the other office tower is designed by Elkus|Manfredi Architects Ltd., of Boston.

Four more buildings -- residential, retail space, and probably some office floors -- will follow, closer to the water and alongside a new six-acre marina called Fan Pier Cove.

Fallon also said he is planning to build the significant amount of expensive public and civic space agreed to by the property's previous owners, the Pritzker family of Chicago, when they won city and state permits. Those include the marina, a block-sized public park, an extensive portion of the Harborwalk, a pier park leading to the harbor's waters, and space reserved for use by the nonprofit organizations Island Alliance, New England Aquarium, and Boston Children's Museum.

Vivien Li, executive director of the Boston Harbor Association, hailed those plans. ``Many thought he would try to change the environmental commitments," she said. ``That's pretty extraordinary for a developer."

Fallon has been consistent in the architectural style he wants to bring to the new South Boston Waterfront. Neither the Park Lane nor the nearby Westin, which he codeveloped, for example, features any of Boston's traditional red brick. ``I don't know that we will, either," said Fallon, showing a computerized rendering of an office building at Fan Pier with mirrored glass. ``This is what we're going with."

Thomas C. Palmer Jr. can be reached at tpalmer@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/articles/2006/09/06/fan_pier_shaping_up_as_a_back_bay_for_21st_century/)

bostonman

09-06-2006, 06:05 AM

From the looks of the proposal, I am excited about how this project is turning out. I am particularly glad that the developers seem to be refraining from using excess brick and stone, as it seems like most that is built down in the waterfront area is brick. I am really looking forward to this project.

JPC

09-06-2006, 03:36 PM

These first four buildings include the tallest planned for the entire site -- a 234-foot office building next to the courthouse -- and one of the three lowest, a 175-foot residential building.

With the lack of large differences in height, I hope that the buildings are well spaced across the lot so that it doesn't look like one large mass. I wished they had built the plan from the eighties, too bad the market fell threw. Though I guess we should be happy that we are at least getting something.

palindrome

09-06-2006, 03:38 PM

I like it, but need to see a rendering of the whole area before i make any major judgements of it.

tocoto

09-06-2006, 06:52 PM

bostonman

09-06-2006, 09:48 PM

I can't remember where, but somewhere in the article, it talks about the heights. One of the buildings, at 21 stories will be the highest. However, I think that there will one or two smaller buildings (17 stories or below) that will be built in the other four buildings. So I think that there will be some differential in height. How much differential is hard to say until we see all eight buildings. But I agree, I hope this appears as eight unique buildings and not one mass, as stated before.

Joe_Schmoe

09-07-2006, 02:16 PM

I think calling it a "Back Bay for the 21st century" has got to be a joke. I can't think of two more disimilar places.

quadratdackel

09-12-2006, 09:39 AM

I think calling it a "Back Bay for the 21st century" has got to be a joke. I can't think of two more disimilar places.
The comparison is fair because it's based on them both being neighborhoods built in their entirety from scratch, as opposed to other neighborhoods that were built gradually and evolved over time. They are of course very different architetecturally, which is why it's "of the 21st century".

I'm not hearing much about the neighborhood's streetlife. My fear is that they will ignore this aspect and completely botch it by having high-speed car roads dominate the landscape, even with an underground transit service. The few times I've been there, on either bike or foot, the cars made me feel uncomfortable in ways I don't in other parts of Boston. In that sense it's more like D.C., where cars act like they're the only important ones on the road, which is a main reason I like Boston better.

statler

09-12-2006, 10:24 AM

Then we push for ?D Boulevard?? Pols stir ?Seaport,? ?Southie? wrangle
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - Updated: 09:16 AM EST

South Boston Waterfront or Seaport?
That is the debate as Boston?s waterfront frontier near Anthony?s Pier 4 and Fan Pier suffers from an identity crisis.
While Southie political leaders want the stretch of harborfront named after the nearby residential neighborhood they represent, some developers have embraced the trendier Seaport name.
A development team led by local tower builder John Hynes recently closed a $200 million deal for a 20-acre-plus site near Pier 4 and the waterfront.
The initial name of their new endeavor: ?Seaport Development Project.?
State Sen. Jack Hart (D-South Boston) said he is confident the developer, as he talks with neighborhood residents, will rethink the name.
?It has always been known to us, the people in the neighborhood, as the South Boston Waterfront, and we are proud to be associated with it,? Hart said.
The new project joins others in the neighborhood that sport the Seaport name, including the Seaport Hotel and Seaport Boulevard.
The ?Seaport? name itself is believed to be a City Hall marketing creation back in the 1990s to promote development in the area.
But it sparked resentment in Southie. The sparsely populated stretch of fishing piers and parking lots was long considered to be part of the neighborhood. City Councilor James Kelly even pushed through a city ordinance officially naming the area the South Boston Waterfront.
Of course, there also may have been a dollars and cents element to the name debate.
Neighborhood leaders were eager to make sure Southie benefited from the jobs and other ?community benefits? typically offered up by developers, critics contend.
Meanwhile, some want a combination of the two names.
?We have waterfronts everywhere, but seaports are uncommon,? said South Boston resident Michael Tyrrell. ?What?s wrong with the South Boston Seaport District??
Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=157082)

Scott

09-12-2006, 01:43 PM

Why shouldn't citizens from South Boston expect to get the same benefits that other neighborhoods get when there is large scale development?

Seems to me the author does not like people from South Boston specifically and locals in general. I find that odd for a person who came here from somewhere else and has made a darn good living in a very soft job.

DudeUrSistersHot

09-12-2006, 01:48 PM

IMAngry

09-12-2006, 01:59 PM

Much as South Boston tries to claim it, it isn't South Boston.

South Boston wants to extract and/or extort as much money as they can, without having to do any of the heavy lifting.

The Seaport District is practically inaccessible from South Boston - you have Summer Street (L Street) and A Street. D Street to South Boston brings you to the edge, and then forces you around it.

What was that agreement a couple years' ago, between Jimmy Kelly and the city, about all the jobs going to South Boston residents? I can't remember. Anyone else?

South Boston complained about putting a new ballpark down there, even though it would have practically no effect on their neighborhood. Then, a couple weeks ago, Rep. Brian Wallace (D-Cornerstones) said that D Street shouldn't be developed, actually that there should be a moratorium on all construction in South Boston.

Fat chance that South Boston officials are going to get anything they want. It's Jimmy Kelly (D-MGH) on one side, Fidelity Investments, John Drew, Joe Fallon, and John Hynes on the other.

callahan

09-12-2006, 06:02 PM

Pfft! Who cares! It's not even an area yet! Build something and then I'll worry about what the politicians want to call it. Gee, I'm so glad we settled on the name "The Rose Kennedy Greenway" ten years ago. That really seems to have sped the process along. :roll: :) :P

Scott

09-13-2006, 06:48 AM

Much as South Boston tries to claim it, it isn't South Boston.

South Boston wants to extract and/or extort as much money as they can...

Is this http://bostonreb.com/blog/ your blog?

The ideas expressed are almost identical.

IMAngry

09-13-2006, 02:28 PM

Ha ha. Guess one of us is just plaigarizing the other.

Scott

09-14-2006, 05:42 PM

Actually I like that blog, it's pretty good. Just don't 100% agree with the author on all issues of geography. :wink:

justin

09-16-2006, 03:51 AM

A new sculpture for the SBWSD:
http://www.mbta.com/insidethet/images/press/fullsize/Partisans_096 copy.jpg

briv

09-16-2006, 04:46 AM

A new sculpture for the SBWSD:
http://www.mbta.com/insidethet/images/press/fullsize/Partisans_096 copy.jpg

Justin's Pic:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/Partisans_096copy.jpg

I always really liked these sculptures. Too bad no one will ever see them here.

Joe_Schmoe

09-16-2006, 06:56 AM

Yes, the South Boston Waterfront is far too warm, lively, and exuberant, we need this there to tone it down a little and make it a more somber place.

ablarc

09-16-2006, 12:28 PM

Yes, the South Boston Waterfront is far too warm, lively, and exuberant, we need this there to tone it down a little and make it a more somber place.
Well, it'll make it more itself. I guess you could call it a contextual placement.

The Lugubrious District.

JS38

09-18-2006, 02:13 PM

Webcam of Marriot Waterfront Hotel from Payton Construction:

http://www.payton-construction.com/p.webcamrenais.htm

lexicon506

09-18-2006, 03:59 PM

They've gotten quite far along on that building. Is it now the tallest building in the Seaport?

xec

09-18-2006, 06:58 PM

Here's a somewhat clearer view, taken Saturday.

http://static.flickr.com/87/246969283_3e20e1cb09_b.jpg

vanshnookenraggen

09-18-2006, 09:02 PM

That streetscape is so sterile you could eat off it!

Mike

09-18-2006, 09:20 PM

looks like right now it's the same height as the Manulife - 235'.

the tallest building in the seaport is WTC West - 255'.

briv

09-18-2006, 10:50 PM

That streetscape is so sterile you could eat off it!

Awesome

cityrecord

09-19-2006, 06:01 AM

Does that building extend far enough to block the view of the water from the South Boston Maritime Park which is next to the Manulife Building? Or is it directly across the street from the Manulife building? I can't tell from the picture.

ablarc

09-19-2006, 09:48 AM

**yawn**

Joe_Schmoe

09-19-2006, 10:38 AM

Man, who would think that that is a picture of Boston? It sure looks like your typical Western US city with the large blocks, and parking lots. Did they really need 6 lanes of traffic on these streets?

Ron Newman

09-19-2006, 11:20 AM

What is proposed for the vacant lot on the right?

PaulC

09-19-2006, 11:40 AM

http://www.watersideplace.net/index.htm

http://www.watersideplace.net/profile.htm

JS38

09-22-2006, 10:04 PM

Current Banker and Tradesmen online has a cover story on Fan Pier
beginning construction and a rendering of the first two towers:

http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/pub/5_249/commercial/194145-1.html

xec

09-23-2006, 11:39 AM

Branding campaign at Fan Pier.

http://static.flickr.com/90/250550942_82b060acdb_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/113/250550945_c7ad091174_b.jpg

ICA freebie
http://static.flickr.com/108/250550947_748b4889d3_o.jpg

justin

09-23-2006, 07:32 PM

That mechanicals mohawk on the ICA is distracting.

justin

ablarc

09-23-2006, 07:51 PM

That mechanicals mohawk on the ICA is distracting.
Afterthought.

Lurker

09-23-2006, 10:50 PM

It wasn't an afterthought, but a necessary evil due to the structural density of the building (LOTS OF BRACING), and the demands of the program. On the top floor two large galleries flank the central space which is an open atrium with the stairs at the back, glass elevator at the center and a connecting corridor at the front. If you want an idea of how compact things had to be, check out the minimal clearance in the fire stairs when she finally opens and pay close attention to the hallway parallel to the theater space. This left very little space for the mechanical components in the center of the building. To get from one side of the main mechanical room to the other without exiting and using a second door which is next to the only stairs up to the roof. One would have be REALLY skinny and crawl under some piping from hell. Everything had to be compacted as much as possible to fit a large program into a relatively small building, so there was little choice but to utilize the roof. A two man team, who really deserve a vacation, a raise, and a medal, have been doing the c-docs for this project for the past 2-3 years and one can't really ask for anything more than the insane amount of effort they've already put in.

ablarc

09-23-2006, 11:06 PM

It wasn't an afterthought, but a necessary evil...
Synonyms.

(Both mean "not planned from the get-go.")

justin

10-12-2006, 01:14 AM

Maybe they should punch some holes in the steam pipes and hide the mechanicals in a 'blur'?

justin

statler

10-12-2006, 11:05 AM

Maybe they should punch some holes in the steam pipes and hide the mechanicals in a 'blur'?

justin

I see what you did there (http://www.amazon.com/Blur-Making-Nothing-Elizabeth-Diller/dp/0810921235/sr=1-3/qid=1160668995/ref=pd_bbs_3/002-3560830-1625647?ie=UTF8&s=books).
8)

Mike

10-16-2006, 12:35 AM

New destination dining: South Boston Seaport

By Alison Arnett and Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | October 15, 2006

As the sprawling South Boston Seaport district begins to fill out Boston's skyline, one thing is certain: No one will be in danger of going hungry.

From California trendy to sophisticated French cuisine to Brazilian-style grilled meats, at least 60 restaurants could fill the blocks of the Seaport and adjacent Fort Point Channel neighborhood.

About 20 restaurants are open, or will soon be, including an as-yet unnamed one by chef Mark Allen, owner of Newton restaurant Le Soir, who expects to have his new place on Congress Street open by next spring. While many of the others are in the conceptual stage, real estate and restaurant industry people expect most of them will get built because developers of the large projects in the Seaport are reserving spaces in their proposed buildings for places to eat.

On Fan Pier, for example, developer Joseph F. Fallon has space for five restaurants, while across Northern Avenue, developer John B. Hynes III has sketched plans for six.

The restaurants are taking on a certain style that fits their new locations. In the Seaport, with its expansive blocks and contemporary buildings sited for water views, the planned restaurants will tend to be sleek and modern, probably large, and possibly will include national restaurants such as Fleming's Prime Steakhouse. Restaurants in hotels, such as Georges Bank in the Renaissance Boston Waterfront Hotel, Legal C-Bar and Grill in the new Westin Boston Waterfront Hotel, and several others will be geared toward conventioneers and tourists, as well as locals.

In the Fort Point area, a neighborhood of 19th-century brick buildings in a tighter, more intimate street pattern, the restaurant and retail spaces will more resemble the South End, with its mix of small and larger eating places. Joanne Chang, owner of the South End's Flour Bakery & Cafe, plans a second on Farnsworth Street, to open in December. No. 9 Park's Barbara Lynch plans three ``concepts" in a Congress Street development.

When completed, the combined Seaport-Fort Point area could become Boston's biggest dining destination. It already has the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center, the new home of the Institute of Contemporary Art is scheduled to open as soon as next month, and several hotels have opened or are under development.

But this won't be solely a playground for tourists and conventioneers. Boston city officials have for years said they want the area to be for locals, too, and have pushed for mixed-use projects that will add residents, office workers, and shoppers by the thousands. Among Fallon, Hynes, and other developers there are some $6 billion worth of office buildings, residences, hotels, and retail facilities coming to the district.

The restaurants should add to the area's liveliness, much like Back Bay hums both day and evening. ``Landlords are trying to attract people to the area," said Michela Larson, co-owner of Rialto in Cambridge and blu , near Downtown Crossing. ``If you put restaurants there, they will come."

The new Park Lane Seaport apartment building has a Legal Test Kitchen restaurant . By early next year, Salvatore's, a mid-priced Italian restaurant, will be open, along with several smaller places. The Institute of Contemporary Art will offer California-style cuisine at Wolfgang Puck's Water Cafe when the museum opens. And by next year, the Legal C-Bar and Grill -- what restaurateur Roger Berkowitz calls ``an oyster bar on steroids" -- will open in the Westin hotel, where Sauciety is open.

The flurry of interest by restaurant owners marks a turning point in the area, said Pat Paladino, vice president of the real estate firm Meredith & Grew/Oncor. ``One or two groups take the plunge in the market, and it starts to legitimize it." Then the area becomes ``a dining destination," he said.

Several of the area stalwarts also are making plans. The Athanas family, owners of the iconic Anthony's Pier 4, intends to open a new version of the restaurant on the narrow parcel where the current Anthony's sits.

``There will always be an Anthony's Pier 4," said Paul Athanas, youngest son of the late Anthony Athanas, probably in a new building that is part of a $400 million mixed-use complex on the pier.

And the Doulos family, which ran Jimmy's for three generations until its closing earlier this year, has a deal with Cresset Development LLC of Boston to open a new Jimmy's in a modern two-story building in the old location, said Kim Doulos, granddaughter of the founder. The Doulos family has an agreement with McCormick & Schmick's Seafood Restaurants to manage Jimmy's jointly, she said. The new building also would have room for additional restaurants.

``We are absolutely 100 percent coming back," she said. The familiar ``neon sign is in storage as we speak."

People who work in the neighborhood say they're starved for good eating alternatives. Sandra Shapiro, a partner at law firm Foley Hoag LLP in the World Trade Center West building, said new restaurants cannot come soon enough.

She's hoping that empty spaces in her building and an adjoining one are soon filled with locally owned restaurants. ``I really don't want another offshoot of a national chain," she said.

Some restaurant entrepreneurs are debating whether they should be among the first in an area with few diners right now -- or wait for competitors to settle the district and risk paying higher rents.

Berkowitz, for example, said his company made the right move in being among the first new restaurants to settle in the neighborhood, and said Legal Test Kitchen has surpassed Legal's expectations.

``If I waited a year and a half, we wouldn't have been able to strike the same deal" on the lease with Fallon, he said.

Others said there is no need to rush, as it probably will take years for there to be enough people to live or work in the area to support many restaurants.

``Everybody's worried it's still two years out before the young professionals move in," said Charles M. Perkins, whose Boston Restaurant Group brokers restaurant space.

Joe Sciolla, managing principal at the brokerage Cresa Partners Boston Inc., also is skeptical. He thinks it might be five to seven years before a new office tower is built in the area, a needed magnet. ``I don't think residential is going to be the key driver for more restaurants," he said. ``I think you need to have that consistent workforce."

Rents for restaurants are about $35 a square foot-- half of what restaurants would pay in Back Bay, Boston's premier dining area -- but are expected to rise as the area gets built out.

And as they do, the higher rents may to some degree determine the type of restaurants that can afford to locate in the Seaport and Fort Point Channel areas. National chains or well-financed local chefs with a record of drawing crowds, will be likelier to afford high rents than smaller, more intimate restaurants or startups by chefs who have yet to make a name for themselves.

Fallon, who also developed the 465-unit Park Lane, discovered through surveys that people in the neighborhood lamented the loss of several modestly priced restaurants like Jimbo's Fish Shanty. Fallon said the restaurants going into his development, including Legal Test Kitchen, where the entrees range from $13 to about $20, and Salvatore's are reasonably priced.

As more restaurants sign on to a waterfront future, there may be fewer bargains in menu prices and lease rates. Berkowitz recently paid the Doulos family more than $200,000 for the liquor license for his upcoming Legal C. But being on the water may outrank any other concerns, he said.

``Anything right on the water can't help but be expensive," Berkowitz said.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2006/10/15/1160889309_1562.gif

Link (http://www.boston.com/ae/food/restaurants/articles/2006/10/15/new_destination_dining_south_boston_seaport/)

LeTaureau

10-16-2006, 11:02 AM

Wolfgang Puck, ICA - Lame!

Very few chain restaurants, at least the map doesn't show any that I recognize

Ron Newman

10-16-2006, 11:09 AM

Fresh City is a small, mostly local, chain (and is fast-food, despite the note at the bottom left of the map). Legal is a local chain. Some of the other restaurants might have one or two other locations elsewhere in the city; I don't know for sure.

Why is Wolfgang Puck 'lame' ?

Scott

10-16-2006, 03:32 PM

The ICA should feature No Name fish chowda, it is very retro. :wink:

...plus, it's damn good!

Mike

12-09-2006, 12:33 AM

Real-life monopoly game: Hotels vie for Fan Pier site
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Saturday, December 9, 2006

Some of the most exclusive hotel companies in the world are competing for a chance to set up shop on Boston?s waterfront.

At least four high-end hotel chains are jockeying for a spot in the Fan Pier project, the long-planned centerpiece of efforts to redevelop Boston?s harborfront, industry executives said.

Veteran developer Joseph Fallon, who bought the South Boston development site last year for $115 million, is overseeing what has evolved into a full-bore competition among hotel chains for a place in the project, executives familiar with the process said.

In the mix are a number of prestigious domestic hotel brands, and an exotic, five-star Asian competitor called Shangri-La.

New York-based Starwood Hotels is a leading contender to plant one of its flags on Fan Pier. Both its St. Regis and W brands are in contention.

The Four Seasons is also a candidate, executives said.

The luxury hotel flag that wins the Fan Pier sweepstakes will get to put its name on a centerpiece condo/hotel high-rise, featuring posh, multimillion-dollar units that come with the services of the planet?s best hotels.

The condo units themselves could very well become the most expensive ever built in Boston, beating out even the Back Bay?s Mandarin Oriental, another hotel/condo tower bearing the name of an Asian luxury flag, argues David Begelfer, who runs the local trade group for the development industry.

That project near the Prudential tower features a $14.3 million sale, though the would-be buyer Pritam Singh is suing to get out of the deal. The Fan Pier site offers panoramic views of Boston?s skyline and harbor, all within a short walk of the Financial District.

Fallon could not be reached for comment.

?He (Fallon) is going to hit the top sales price for condominiums,? said Begelfer, head of the National Association of Industrial and Office Properties. ?With the kinds of views they have there, it is the height of desirability.?

Lori Lincoln, a spokeswoman for Hong Kong-based Shangri-La, said the hotel does not comment on possible deals, but Boston is definitely high on the company?s list of cities in the United States it wants to be in.

?Boston is one of the cities that is on our target list,? she said.

Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=171186)

vanshnookenraggen

12-09-2006, 02:22 PM

South Boston Waterfront? More like South Boston Vegas Strip.

ablarc

12-27-2006, 09:10 PM

South Boston Waterfront? More like South Boston Vegas Strip.
Actually, it does an excellent impersonation of San Diego.

Too timid to be mistaken for Vegas.

PaulC

01-07-2007, 09:28 AM

On tomorrow's Greater Boston show:

Tomorrow
Developer John B. Hynes III details ambitious development plans for the South Boston waterfront.

http://www.greaterboston.tv/check/index.php

castevens

01-07-2007, 04:46 PM

Fresh City is a small

***

yes, there's one in Warwick, Rhode Island

kz1000ps

01-07-2007, 07:58 PM

THanks for the heads up, PaulC.

PaulC

01-08-2007, 09:19 AM

Be prepared, Emily Rooney is probably the worst interviewer on tv. I can only imagine she got and keeps this job because of who here father is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Rooney

statler

01-09-2007, 07:03 AM

Seafood eatery Jimmy's braces for demolition

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | January 9, 2007

Jimmy's Harborside R estaurant, a Boston institution on the waterfront that featured its name in big red lights outside, and a bar fashioned from an old boat inside, will be torn down beginning today.

The demolition will make way for a new development that could include as many as four restaurants, possibly even a revived Jimmy's, which closed New Year's Eve 2005 after 50 years in a former warehouse building next to the Fish Pier.

"Oh, my gosh, I think it's the end of an era," said Vivien Li, the executive director of the nonprofit Boston Harbor Association.

Jimmy's is one of several properties in the neighborhood that has changed hands in the last few years, as long-promised development is finally happening in the Seaport District.

"We're going to see much more aggressive property owners moving forward to bring more people down to the waterfront," Li said.

The Massachusetts Port Authority, which owns the property, is poised to sign a 75-year lease with developer Cresset Group of Boston, which is assembling a building team, and is talking to several restaurateurs.

"I think by summer we'll have hopefully set the primary players in place," said Cresset president Ed Nardi.

Jimmy's used to be the kind of restaurant where families treated themselves, or gave out-of- town guests a taste of Boston seafood. It was known as "Home of the Chowder King." In 1966, "Fancy Jumbo Shrimp a la Greque" was on the menu for $3.50. Founder Jimmy Doulos was 17 when he first opened his restaurant, then called the Liberty Cafeteria, to serve fishermen in 1924.

But times and tastes changed. Large, old-fashioned restaurants such as Jimmy's have been eclipsed by trendy establishments, and the working waterfront is fast converting to a district of tourist-heavy uses.

So the big question is whether there is a home for Jimmy's at its old haunt? Kim Doulos, granddaughter of founder, could not be reached to comment yesterday, but has previously pledged to reopen the family business.

Nardi, however, offered no guarantees. "We have a general understanding of how they would come back in, but there is still a ways to go," the developer said.

Whether the third generation of the Doulos family returns or not, the location -- next to where Mayor Thomas M. Menino recently said he wants to build a new City Hall -- will not lack for tenants.

"The space will not come cheaply," said Lowell L. Richards III, chief development officer at Massport.

Demolition will take several months, as the two-story, 35,900-square-foot building and wooden deck over the water's edge are removed. The 473 wooden pilings, being consumed by the marine wood borer known as Limnoria Tripunctata, will be cut off at the mud line. The late-1800s granite seawall will also be inspected.

Several hundred steel-reinforced concrete pilings will be installed, Nardi said, and two restaurant buildings -- along with a new section of the Boston Harborwalk -- will be built on top. One building is expected to be four stories high, the other two levels, possibly with a roof deck.

While no designs of the new structure are yet available, Richards said "glass will be favored from our perspective. We clearly want the design to be noteworthy."

Across Northern Avenue is the Park Lane Seaport residences, where developer Joseph F. Fallon intends to have three to four restaurants, including the already open -- and often crowded -- Legal Test Kitchen.

"Just like the area was known as restaurant row," said Richards, "we'll have at least seven distinct eating opportunities, which is wonderful."

Thomas C. Palmer Jr. can be reached at tpalmer@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/01/09/seafood_eatery_jimmys_braces_for_demolition/)

JS38

01-11-2007, 02:59 AM

For those (like me) who missed Greater Boston the other day,
here is a link to the story and video:
http://www.greaterboston.tv/features/gb_20070108_development.php

castevens

01-11-2007, 09:18 AM

Thank you so much!

awood91

01-19-2007, 08:55 PM

Hynes may be victim of mayoral mugging
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Friday, January 19, 2007 - Updated: 09:52 AM EST

Boston?s legendarily hypersensitive mayor may have found a new target: Hub tower builder John Hynes.
The developer behind a pair of key Boston megaprojects, Hynes has appeared in far too many articles - many of them mine, I confess - for the mayor?s liking.
That, anyway, is the word from some sharp-eyed observers of Boston development, who naturally don?t want their names revealed for fear of mayoral retaliation.
Hynes, the son of former Boston newscaster John Hynes and grandson of a revered Boston mayor, may be in for a not-so-rare treat.
The full Menino.
That means phone calls that are not returned and a sudden slowdown in how City Hall reviews your plans.
?When you are mayor, in this town, you are king,? said one City Hall insider.
There are already troubling signs. Hynes, after initially pledging to file plans by year?s end for a grand new high-rise neighborhood on South Boston?s waterfront, says that may be another three months away. The developer says the slower pace is his own, though he acknowledges pushback from city officials as well.
It?s an unfortunate beef to have. Hynes is at the center of a pair of projects key to Boston?s future - the redevelopment of the city?s mothballed retail anchor, the downtown Filene?s complex, and the buildout of the waterfront.
Menino wasn?t talking yesterday, but Dot Joyce, Menino?s press secretary, said she is unaware of any bad blood, and that her boss talks ?highly? of Hynes.
For his part, Hynes denies any rift with the mayor, though he acknowledges a recent misstep.
The developer, who is looking to build a new mini-city of condos and offices on South Boston?s waterfront near Pier 4, went public last month at a major downtown real estate conference with a rendering of his plans before the mayor saw it. Hynes had briefed City Hall?s development arm, thinking officials there would pass on the plans to the mayor.
They hadn?t.
Then there was Hynes? off-the-cuff, restaurant napkin proposal to city development officials for a blockbuster land trade.
Hynes? pitch: I?ll give you part of my 23-acre tract on the waterfront if you give me that prime downtown site where City Hall sits.
The mayor, who has already announced plans to sell off City Hall, could build a new one next door to the federal courthouse and not far from South Station. Probably a superior location to the more remote pier farther down the waterfront Menino had chosen.
Great idea, right? Not at City Hall, where it was seen as undercutting the mayor.
All of which may be a symptom of a larger problem, a cultural clash between one of the city?s most dynamic developers and an imperial mayor.
If Hynes is indeed in Menino?s crosshairs, history isn?t all that encouraging.
Just ask Frank McCourt, the former owner of the waterfront land Hynes wants to build out. McCourt spent years talking up his plans for the waterfront and grabbing the limelight.
And McCourt spent years sitting on a swath of undeveloped parking lots, unable to get so much as a hot-dog stand approved in a City Hall where he was derisively called the ?parking attendant.?
As more than one ambitious builder has learned, there is actually something bigger in Boston than Tommy?s Tower, Menino?s proposal for a 1,000-foot tower.
Tommy?s Temper.

KentXie

01-19-2007, 11:41 PM

kz1000ps

01-25-2007, 02:01 PM

National Development buys Fort Point Channel property worth $74.2M

Boston Business Journal - 11:35 AM EST Thursday

National Development closed on the purchase of five buildings from Berkeley Investments Inc. for $74.2 million.

The Newton, Mass.-based real estate developer purchased the assets, which total 333,000 square feet, with New York based investment firm Angelo, Gordon & Co. The property is located in Boston's Fort Point Channel neighborhood at 332 and 374 Congress St., 33-41 and 43 and 44 Farnsworth St. In addition to the existing buildings, a parking lot at 38 Farnsworth St. was also included in the sale.

The deal was first reported in the Boston Business Journal last December. Holliday Fenoglio Fowler represented the seller, Boston-based Berkeley Investment which originally bought the five buildings as part of a larger 12-building portfolio it purchased from the Boston Wharf Co. in 2004 for $100 million.

"Clearly there will continue to be increasing migration to the Seaport area," said Thomas M. Alperin, president of National Development in a statement. "We believe that this portfolio is well positioned to take advantage of continuing growth in the area."

The properties are currently approximately 85 percent leased to a number of office tenants. National Development plans to continue to operate the buildings as office properties and may convert the ground floors of the buildings into future retail and restaurant space. Richards Barry Joyce and Partners LLC have been hired to lease the property.

? 2006 American City Business Journals, Inc. and its licensors. All rights reserved.

tocoto

01-25-2007, 07:13 PM

Fallon may build spec office building on Fan Pier
Boston Business Journal - 3:22 PM EST Thursday
by Michelle Hillman
Boston Business Journal

Developer Joseph Fallon is "exploring" beginning construction of a 480,000-square-foot office building on Fan Pier by year's end, even though tenants have yet to sign on, he told the Business Journal Thursday afternoon.

"We are exploring moving ahead with the office building on a speculative basis," said Fallon, who also is pushing forward with plans for residential and hotel properties on the site near the new federal court house on the South Boston waterfront.

"The market is continuing to tighten up," said The Fallon Co. chief.

Fallon said he expected to win tenants in part because they'll want to move into newer space. He said 80 percent of the city's supply is at least 25 years old.

Also working in his favor, he said, is a dwindling supply of big spaces. He specifically listed potential clients as operations needing blocks of 50,000, 75,000 or 150,000 square feet.

By 2009 or 2010, finding that much contiguous space will be difficult, he said.

Construction of the new building could begin by year's end and continue into late 2009 or early 2010, Fallon said. It would be located near the center of Fan Pier overlooking a marina and adjacent to a park.

Mike

02-03-2007, 03:54 AM

Developer sets schedule for Fan Pier construction

February 3, 2007

THE REGION
Developer Joseph F. Fallon said he will begin construction on his first office building at the 21-acre Fan Pier project on the South Boston Waterfront this year or early next year. Fallon said he would break ground without having signed up an anchor tenant. He said there are enough large and small prospective tenants in the market now for office space, and with so few other new buildings underway in the city, starting a modest tower of about 500,000 square feet "on spec" makes sense. Fallon also expects to begin work this year on a hotel and residential building on the site. The developer has long-range plans to build about nine buildings, totaling about 3 million square feet, on property formerly owned by the Pritzker family of Chicago. (Thomas C. Palmer Jr.)

Link (http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/02/03/developer_sets_schedule_for_fan_pier_construction/)

xec

03-01-2007, 11:48 AM

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/_0601010073.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/trixecol/_0601010078.jpg

kmp1284

03-01-2007, 01:21 PM

uh yeah, and that thing is of what significance?

IMAngry

03-01-2007, 01:59 PM

Smart aleck, it's Jimmy's Harborside, defaced.

pharmerdave

03-22-2007, 10:27 PM

www.fanpierboston.com

DudeUrSistersHot

03-22-2007, 10:35 PM

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1401/fanpiersm2.jpg

Doesn't look all that bad from here.

Wait, is that precast?

KentXie

03-22-2007, 10:48 PM

Even thought the buildings look bland, together in a cluster, it looks really really nice.

kz1000ps

03-22-2007, 11:04 PM

Yep, all modern buildings look decent from this distance. Too bad they all suck spherical organs up close.

And I see a LOT of precast :cry: :cry: :cry:

tmac9wr

03-23-2007, 12:45 AM

Looks like a great cluster there. There's lots of precast, but a healthy amount of glass too. I'm reserving judgement on this until we get some detailed renderings. Before we decide that up close they'll "suck spherical organs", lets actually see them up close instead of deciding that from a rendering thats based well over 1,000 feet away.

It very well may suck when seen up close, but lets try and stay positive...this has been a long time coming, so lets try not to shit on this development before we actually get to see it up close and personal.

kz1000ps

03-23-2007, 08:26 AM

Yeah yeah, but come on, do we really expect some level of detail to emerge once we're at 500 feet away? 100 feet? The stuff shown in the rendering is what I'd call "2007 Contemporary," meaning it's barely up-to-date with the minimum amount of thought put into it. Guess what 2007 contemporary makes for.. it makes for 2009 Bland, 2011 Banal, and 2017 Dated and In Need of a New Facade Within Another 10 years.

I can only hope these are placeholders and not the final designs, because by the time they're built we'll probably be sick of the whole "break up the precast slabs with glass, and then we'll break up the glass with precast" thing that's so common today.

[/woke up on grumpy side of bed]

kz1000ps

03-23-2007, 08:29 AM

Oh yeah, this article is about is this project, right? I get all the waterfront stuff mixed up, so if not, speak up..

S. Boston project adds a developer

W/S to handle retail part of site near court

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | March 23, 2007

The South Boston Waterfront property once owned by businessman Frank H. McCourt Jr. has a new name -- Seaport Square -- and new development partner.

Retail development powerhouse W/S Development Associates LLC of Chestnut Hill will be part of the team building out the 23 acres of parking lots near the federal court. Specifically, W/S Development will be responsible for an estimated 1 million to 1.7 million square feet of shopping and restaurant space, the company revealed yesterday.

W/S Development joins new owners John B. Hynes III and Morgan Stanley Real Estate, that are planning to convert the largely undeveloped L-shaped parcel into a dozen or more blocks of office buildings, residences, hotels, stores, and parks -- 6.5 million square feet or more of new construction, Hynes estimates.

W/S Development, will jointly own, lease, and manage the retail component, which will occupy ground- and second-floor space, and is expected to be a highly visible element of the Seaport complex. Financial terms of the deal have yet to be worked out.

The company does not yet have tenants lined up, but Thomas J. DeSimone, W/S Development executive vice president, said there would be a wide variety of retail uses: some larger stores and many smaller shops, as well fine- and casual-dining restaurants, entertainment, and probably a grocery store.

"We have a palette here, a clean piece of paper to do something that is really significant and can appeal to a wide range of communities," he said.

DeSimone said the retail mix will approximate the range of what is available in the Back Bay and will not fit any one category -- it won't be a mall, for example, or lifestyle center, such as those in the suburbs.

The property is across the street from the Institute of Contemporary Art, and DeSimone said a movie theater and night clubs are also possibilities.

Seaport Square is mostly between Old Northern Avenue and Seaport Boulevard and abuts two other large planned waterfront development projects, Fan Pier and Waterside Place. It is located along the MBTA's Silver Line at Courthouse Station, a spacious, modern underground facility that could be linked to ground-level retail space.

W/S Development is one of the largest privately owned retail development firms in the country. It plans to begin construction this summer on a massive mixed-used project in Dedham, Legacy Place, that will include tenants such as Legal Sea Foods and L.L. Bean. The firm is also building Mansfield Crossing, a 400,000-square-foot shopping area, and Wareham Crossing, which will have about 700,000 square feet of retail space.

Hynes, along with Vornado Realty Trust, another large retail development firm, is also redeveloping the old Filene's building at Downtown Crossing. He said W/S Development's knowledge of the market impressed him. "They're local guys, and their enthusiasm for doing something in Boston kind of carried the day," he said.

McCourt gave up long standing plans to develop the land, bought the Los Angeles Dodgers baseball team in 2004, and moved to the West Coast. He sold his South Boston holdings last year to News Corp., which in turn sold the land to Hynes and Morgan Stanley in September for $203.7 million.

Thomas C. Palmer Jr. can be reached at tpalmer@globe.com.
? Copyright 2007 Globe Newspaper Company.

Padre Mike

03-23-2007, 08:40 AM

My biggest concern with the seaport district's development is not so much the material used for facades (though of course I'd like buildings of the quality of One Charles St.), it is the streetscape. What will pedestrians be looking at? Will the first couple of floors engage us as we walk through the streets, or will artificial storefronts be tacked on like so many Cheese Cake Factories (though again, there's always room for some fanciful design here and there)? So far many of the buildings completed around the WTC for pedestrians are boring, dull and lifeless. The Jimmy's Harborside development may prove to be better (though I haven't seen renderings), but I hope the entire district can avoid having small pedestrian-friendly enclaves cut off from each other by highways and blank service ports.

Waldorf

03-23-2007, 11:03 AM

People, let's not make judgments on Fan Pier based on this rendering. Until we see the actual designs for each building, we can't determine what it will really look like.

The rendering was just to give us an idea of what it might look like - in terms of density and building placement. Every time an abstract rendering of something comes out, this board goes crazy. Just calm the hell down.

I'm sure the buildings for Fan Pier have not been finalized. I don't even think an architect has been selected...I could be wrong.

aws129

03-23-2007, 01:55 PM

Those are pretty bland....but I agree that we should reserve judgment. The architects have been selected, though (it was announced a while back)

Joe_Schmoe

03-23-2007, 02:22 PM

DudeUrSistersHot

03-23-2007, 03:13 PM

It sure would have been nice such that when approaching the city by boat, you would have something memorable here the way the Rowe's Wharf arch, or round International Place are. Instead we get generic apartment buildings. Alas, asking for anything seems to be too much to ask for these days.

I sort of feel like the marina does this. IMO, this is going to be one of the best developments Boston has seen in a while. Sure, there's ugly precast, but the density is a lot better than i thought, the marina is awesome, and it looks like the harborwalk is going to be pretty nice too. Just imagine that area on a nice summer day, people all around going to the ICA and the Marina, people jogging around the harborwalk, activity all around. I even think, for the first time in a while, that the amount of park space is appropriate.

JSic

03-23-2007, 03:20 PM

I really like the marina.

I also really like that the ugly courthouse will be shielded from view. :D

justin

03-23-2007, 11:07 PM

I like the subtle way in which the stacked-boxes look evokes the one-time port functions of the area.

justin

bowesst

03-24-2007, 08:18 AM

I hope Seaport Blvd. isn't so wide that it cuts of Fan Pier from the western part of Fort Point Channel.

Chirag

03-24-2007, 09:46 AM

I'm not too worried about the materials. The key thing is that the density and spacing is just about right given the area's location, and over the long-term having the right density will really answer all of its own questions. (Don't forget all the money that comes w/ it either!) What matters is that this development is going to bring tons of more people - and therefore *life* - to both sides of the Channel.

Throw Russia Wharf, South Station Tower, and Winthrop Square into that rendering and that's a pretty modern, good-looking city right there guys. Not too bad.

IMAngry

03-24-2007, 04:45 PM

Joe_Schmoe wrote:

It sure would have been nice such that when approaching the city by boat ...

You mean like if we were being invaded by a foreign navy?

xec

03-24-2007, 05:05 PM

Joe_Schmoe wrote:

It sure would have been nice such that when approaching the city by boat ...

You mean like if we were being invaded by a foreign navy?
No point exerting ourselves to make the Seaport look good to an invading navy, because the invasion may never come and all our efforts would be wasted. Better to concentrate on making it look good to ferry commuters or tourists and conventioneers coming by water taxi from the airport.

palindrome

03-24-2007, 05:09 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol:

palindrome

03-24-2007, 05:12 PM

What happened to this?

http://www.dennisallain.com/files/fanpier-2006.jpg

or

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/09/06/1157549587_2709.jpg

DudeUrSistersHot

03-24-2007, 05:43 PM

I hope Seaport Blvd. isn't so wide that it cuts of Fan Pier from the western part of Fort Point Channel.

That's what I was thinking

lndscpr

03-24-2007, 07:05 PM

budman3

03-24-2007, 10:57 PM

What happened to this?

http://www.dennisallain.com/files/fanpier-2006.jpg

or

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/09/06/1157549587_2709.jpg

It looks like those are still in the new rendering, just not at that angle or with that much detail. First thing I looked for actually.

briv

03-25-2007, 06:29 PM

stellarfun

03-25-2007, 08:54 PM

Those two renderings illustrate two totally different buildings. The first is light, sleek and elegant; the second is awkward, cheap-looking and dull.

And that rendering posted on the Fan Pier site--if it is indicative of what this development will actually look like-- is disgraceful. And I do have feeling that it may indeed be an accurate indication of what to expect because it is consistent with this developer's rapidly growing portfolio of garbage development in Boston's Seaport.

Our mayor loves touting Boston as a world-class city, but do you think cities like Chicago, San Francisco or New York would allow such a vast constellation of junk to be erected on their most prominent waterfront sites? This crap wouldnt even pass muster in Newport, Kentucky. World class embarrassment maybe.

San Francisco, design considerations for 300+ acre Mission Bay site. (25+ meg pdf file)
http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/sfra/Projects/MBD4DN.pdf

San Francisco, quicktime renderings for a 43 acre Mission Bay site:
http://pub.ucsf.edu/media/mbay_gtech_small_ref.mov

A residential building rendering for Mission Bay
http://www.ubayp.com/resources/ri/05/1027.html

briv

03-25-2007, 09:53 PM

vanshnookenraggen

03-25-2007, 10:03 PM

Actually when I was in San Francisco over the summer I was very impressed with what had been built in SoMa. There were a few buildings I felt were bland but for the most part the area worked together as a contemporary neighborhood.

Reading that design outline I think they hit the nail on the head. Where is this for the SBW?

Also, I can attest to many buildings going up in NYC that are cheap pre-cast construction. In fact almost all the new condos I see are like this. The only difference is in NYC they blend in well with the rest of the city. Anything in the SBW will stand out like a sore thumb, good or bad.

palindrome

03-25-2007, 10:45 PM

could all these failed designs actually be from a lack of something we all love to hate....nimbys?

vanshnookenraggen

03-25-2007, 11:08 PM

could all these failed designs actually be from a lack of something we all love to hate....nimbys?

No, this is because these are the design standards of today and because they are cheap to build.

statler

03-28-2007, 07:47 AM

History lesson

By Steve Bailey, Globe Columnist | March 28, 2007

O, Fan Pier! Is there another spot in this burg we call Boston with such a delicious, twisted history? A wind-swept parking lot with a harbor view that has promised so much and frustrated so many? And now history, deliciously, is threatening to repeat itself.

Turn the clock back nearly two decades. The year is 1990, and Anthony Athanas, the storied and cranky Boston restaurateur, had just lost a stunning court decision to his former partners to develop Fan Pier, the Pritzkers of Chicago. Athanas made a deal with the Pritzkers only to back out when he decided he wasn't being adequately compensated. The Pritzkers sued and won a judgment of nearly $60 million in damages and interest.

Facing ruin, Athanas' old friend, US Representative Joe Moakley, as good an inside player as this town has seen, stepped in. About 18 months after the judgment, Moakley engineered a surprise deal to put the new federal courthouse on Fan Pier rather than downtown where it belonged. Athanas got $34 million for the courthouse site, which he turned over to the Pritzkers along with the rest of Fan Pier. The key: Athanas got to keep his restaurants. And the city got a building block for the South Boston Waterfront.

Now, all these years later, Fan Pier remains the same wind-swept parking lot it was then -- save for the stunning new Institute of Contemporary Art. My question: Is Tom Menino taking a page straight from the Joe Moakley playbook?

What Joe Fallon, the latest in a line of would-be Fan Pier builders, needs more than anything is a tenant. And he and his friend, the mayor, have their eyes on a big one: the FBI, currently in the market for 270,000 square feet of space for its new Boston office. Menino told me last week that he had recently pitched the FBI and the Government Services Administration, the FBI's landlord, on Fan Pier as a site. "The federal courthouse and the FBI, right next to each other," Menino told me. "What better location could you have?"

Can Menino pull it off? The good old days of city building using the Fed's urban renewal checkbook is gone. But government buildings, even big government leases, remain a viable strategy. Think of Government Center, with its collection of city, state, and federal offices downtown. Now think of a new Government Center on the waterfront, including the federal courthouse, a new City Hall, and the FBI. That is what the mayor is thinking.

Fallon says the chat about town that his banker, MassMutual Financial Group, is getting anxious to see something happening on the huge $115 million investment on Fan Pier is baloney. "I have more than enough anxiety for both of us," he says. Fallon says he will break ground on an office building, even without tenants, and a hotel and condo building around the first of the year. MassMutual says it is "pleased with its partnership with Fallon."

The FBI is hardly a perfect fit on Fan Pier. This was supposed to be the jewel of the waterfront, a place filled with great architecture and great public spaces. In our post-Oklahoma City, post-9/11 world, the FBI's requirements favor security, not cafes. The FBI's bid proposal, just for instance, calls for the adjacent parking garage to be above ground; all the parking on Fan Pier is supposed to be underground. But, then, it is a tenant, which Fan Pier could sorely use.

The deadline for FBI bids is Friday. Fallon says he will definitely bid, but knows there are some FBI requirements he can't meet because of the restrictions on Fan Pier. His ace in the hole, if he has one, is the mayor. Can Tom Menino deliver for his friend on the Fan Pier as Joe Moakley delivered for his friend nearly two decades ago?

And is that good, or bad, for the waterfront?

Steve Bailey is a Globe columnist. He can be reached at bailey@globe.com or at 617-929-2902.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/03/28/history_lesson/)

vanshnookenraggen

03-28-2007, 12:50 PM

Great! Kill two birds with one bomb! This is a horrible idea. Send it out to 128 where it belongs.

Arch21

03-28-2007, 03:08 PM

I think it would be a great Idea. It would be the perfect compliment to the Federal court house.

vanshnookenraggen

03-28-2007, 03:56 PM

I think it would be a great Idea. It would be the perfect compliment to the Federal court house.

I think it looks good on paper but the Feds require so much security that it would kill any street level life and make the area feel even more like a suburban office park.

sidewalks

03-28-2007, 03:58 PM

I took a look at the RFP for my own company...the FBI requires setbacks of 100 feet on each side of the building. With a 30,000 square foot floor plate, that would mean it would occupy a three acre site...ALL Alone. There is little if any chance that any developer, any where in the city, will be able, or willing, to meet these requirements. The highest and best use for fan pier is absolutely not such a building.

sidewalks

03-28-2007, 04:06 PM

I just looked at it again...the RFP actually states in its first requirement that the site must be a minimum of five acres.

Ron Newman

03-28-2007, 04:22 PM

This should not be located on Fan Pier or anywhere else in Boston. Put it in Framingham, or better yet, outside Massachusetts entirely. (Has the FBI ever done anything beneficial for our state?)

briv

03-28-2007, 07:08 PM

The fact that Fallon is even considering the FBI as a potential tenant only helps confirm my suspicion that Fan Pier is in very, very bad hands.

If the FBI has to have a place in Boston, why not move them into the Hurley Building. It would be the perfect fit. It would be nice to see that building restored and renovated as part of the deal, as well.

Arch21

03-28-2007, 08:27 PM

I remember reading a couple of years ago about the FBI building their own skyscraper in Los Angeles. How come a city like that has a place for the FBI but you guys don't think Boston does. If your worried about terrorism Los Angeles is one of the top cities in the United States as a target and Boston is like 40 right above Omaha. The other reason you guys don't want it there is because of the amount of space it will need for security reasons Id rather that there than a bunch of condos. all i read about is how many condos and hotels are being built. We need for this city to be known for some other things other than its condos and hotels.

Lrfox

03-28-2007, 08:50 PM

First of all, who is anyone to predict who or where the terrorists are likely to attack. they could poison the potato crop in Boise Idaho, or Aroostook (spelled horribly wrong) County, Maine next for all we know. Saying that Boston ranks 40 on the list is still saying that there are thousands of other cities and towns less likely to be attacked anyway.

Second, there were a few partially joking comments about keeping it out of Massachusetts, but the majority of them weren't debating whether or not it should be in MA; they were debating WHERE in the city. Placing a structure with the kinds of restrictions that an FBI building would require in that type of area (where they are trying to redevelop it and make it a destination) would severely reduce the desirability/ accessibility of the area to the public. the reason for condos and hotels here is simple... people. Hotels bring tourist/ businessmen, and condos bring residents.

The people who are brought to the area, would increase the demand for retail and entertainment in the area which would bring revenue, and make the south boston waterfront a destination for everyone.

an FBI headquarters here would be maximum security and not exactly people friendly. and people friendly is what boston needs. Like everyone said, i think this is better suited for the suburbs. again, it's not a matter of "it SHOULDN'T be in Boston (or Greater Boston)," it's a matter of where the right location is.

For the record, where did you see that they were thinking of making an FBI skyscraper? might as well put a bulls-eye on it in terms of terrorism.

Arch21

03-28-2007, 09:34 PM

I agree with Lrfox completely on the need to bring business and more tourist here to Boston. My point was that we've been building a lot of hotels and condos already in Boston. I mean most of the major companies are in new york city and Chicago because they have those tall skyscrapers and interesting landmarks. if we build an FBI building here and get more high rise office buildings that's whats going to get people and companies to come to Boston. The hotels and condos will fall into place after that. this is just my personal opinion I just think we are going at this wrong. I'm not trying to be rude at all its just my personal opinion. On a final note i was reading a Boston.com article about how Boston doesn't need beacons (skyscrapers) and that we should focus on enhancing our sidewalks and our parks and base our city around that. I was like are you kidding me. if a company was going to choose between Boston and new york city. of course they are going to pick new york city. They aren't going to come here because of our sidewalks and parks.

kz1000ps

03-28-2007, 10:17 PM

My point was that we've been building a lot of hotels and condos already in Boston.

And yet prices for condos are still rising, as are apartment rents, so apparently we still need more residential units of any/all kinds. Hotels I'm not so sure about.

I mean most of the major companies are in new york city and Chicago because they have those tall skyscrapers and interesting landmarks.

This sentence is just stupid, and I feel no need to explain why.

if we build an FBI building here and get more high rise office buildings that's whats going to get people and companies to come to Boston.

An FBI building of under 300k sf that needs 5 acres of land? If this building has about 40k sf floors, that means it will be a whopping 8 stories. How will this, or the FBI in general, attract new office tenants, let alone "get people and companies to come to Boston" ?

Also, you do know that there is a height limit on most (if not all) of the Southie waterfront, correct? There's a reason all the buildings built so far top off at the same height, and it's not the free market holding them to it.

if a company was going to choose between Boston and new york city. of course they are going to pick new york city. They aren't going to come here because of our sidewalks and parks.

Believe it or not, companies look into something called "quality of life" of the cities they're eyeing, not who just has "those tall skyscrapers." And by any measure Boston competes extremely well in that category.

Lrfox

03-28-2007, 10:19 PM

Arch21, I agree with most of what you just said, I think Boston has a huge need for more business and i think an FBI building will help. a lot. my only issue with it was the location. I would personally prefer somewhere other than the waterfront for a maximum security building. Another thing i TOTALLY agree on is the crap you read about boston not needing more "beacons." if you want more open space, move out of the city. I think you'll find that we are not the only two here that share that opinion. Sorry if my previous post seemed aggressive, but i feel strongly about a lot of things in boston (even though i'm actually from 35 minutes south of the city). But i do agree with most of what you just said.

However, I think condos and hotels in this area especially are not bad. in fact, if i were visiting, i'd rather have a hotel room overlooking a nice harbor than one facing a wall of buildings immediatly across the street. Boston should be Boston, not New York.

Arch21

03-28-2007, 10:59 PM

kz1000ps I'm going to try and use small words so you can understand what is going on. Every year companies are leaving Boston and there are no companies coming to Boston. There are papers and reports that show this. All there is going to end up being is a huge amount of empty condos. Regarding quality of life, if trees and parks is what they want then move to Maine.

Believe it or not, companies look into something called "quality of life" of the cities they're eying, not who just has "those tall skyscrapers." And by any measure Boston competes extremely well in that category.

That is pretty much all we have going for us is your so called quality of life. kz1000ps what does Boston have that makes it stand out from other cities? our condos. and I'm not talking about building skyscrapers in South Boston i said Boston i am aware of the height restrictions.

kz1000ps

03-28-2007, 11:15 PM

OK, we all know that there's an overall outflux of businesses, but I don't believe our lack of tall office towers is what is driving them away. Sure we can build them, but my point with bringing up quality-of-life is that we need more than just skyscrapers to attract tenants, which was in response to your comments that seemed to say all we need is big new buildings. ("I mean most of the major companies are in new york city and Chicago because they have those tall skyscrapers and interesting landmarks"). We have plenty of landmarks.

But other than building vig towers that can visually compete with NYC's stock, what do you propose to make Boston better? After all, it's a well known fact that London is drawing tons of companies from NY and over to its city and stock exchange(s), so it can't just be that.

KentXie

03-28-2007, 11:19 PM

Guys, we are know that all the problems that Boston experience, in economy and whatnot, are all because of NIMBYs :wink:

lexicon506

03-28-2007, 11:34 PM

Companies look for three things when they decide where to be located: cheap rents, strong economy, and large workforce. Right now, the South fits that formula. Everyone is moving there because of the "nice" weather and cheaper housing. Consequently, many northern cities are suffering (yes, even those with some skyscrapers). Contrary to what you believe, Boston is actually pretty well off. There is a growing demand for office space and the lowest vacancy rate in years, and all of that can be traced to quality of life. People love the human-scale urbanity of Boston, educational resources, abundant greenspace, and high culture. The only thing keeping people from moving here in droves are the outrageous housing costs. Sooo, that brings us back to Fan Pier. If developers continue building condos and apartments, prices will be forced to go down. Eventually, as prices get more affordable, more of the hundreds of thousands of college graduates in the area will decide to stay in Boston. Companies will look to Boston and be willing to pay high rents to tap into the educated labor pool. Then we can build your beloved skyscrapers to house new companies.

While skyscrapers are a plus, they are in no way "the reason" companies move to a city. It's really quite simple: quality of life attracts people, which attract companies. The only thing Boston is missing is cheaper housing.

kz1000ps

03-29-2007, 06:41 AM

Very well stated, Lexicon. Better than I ever coulda..

Arch21

03-29-2007, 09:15 AM

lexicon506, Boston is not well off. I will give you an example my friend works in the federal reserve building and he said that half the floors in that building are vacant. There is no growing demand in Boston for office space. Boston is trying to create a demand. You could build more of these condos and hope that these jobs/companies eventually come but that is no guarantee. Boston has been building these condominium complexes in and around Boston for years and that still hasn't changed anything. Boston has a very limited amount of land left so they have to be smart with what they do with it.

Padre Mike

03-29-2007, 09:19 AM

I've seen Boston rise and fall for the past 40 years (I clearly remember the downtown waterfront, complete with stray cats and piles of trash). Sometimes we've lived to regret rapid development (e.g. the West End and Govt. Center). Sometimes we've been relieved that neighborhood groups fought so valiantly (e.g. Park Square as originally proposed). Sometimes we've had to wait a few decades for a mediocre development to become truly grand (e.g. the Pru. Center) and sometimes the details have spoiled long-awaited renovations (e.g. Copley Sq.). Through it all, one issue rarely has been addressed: Massachusetts income taxes. If we are going to build vast new areas of the city and attract businesses and new residents, we will need to loosen up the cash flow of the middle class, who are choking on personal debt and taxes.

bowesst

03-29-2007, 10:26 AM

Waldorf

03-29-2007, 10:41 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't they lease office space to the private sector?

bosdevelopment

03-29-2007, 10:53 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't they lease office space to the private sector?

I'd assume so.

Whenever I read these articles about the office vacancy rates declining I always ask myself if it's for real. Take a walk down Newbury Street and look at how many vacant store fronts there are.

Does anyone remember what it was like circa 2000 when there really was no vacancy in Boston (and all of Eastern Mass for that matter)?

On my end of things (apartment rentals) this is the lowest the market's ever been and I see no light at th end of the tunnel in site. The only thing that will turn things around for the area in the immediate future (short of a nation-wide stimulus) is a regional home-grown sector specific explosion n that would attract people from all over the world.

IMAngry

03-29-2007, 11:02 AM

"Boston is trying to stimulate demand by building office buildings."

I don't think that's accurate.

Investors don't lend money to developers because they "hope" to get their money back.

Regarding rentals, I'm not sure the other person's point. Rental vacancy rates must be in the very low single digits - there are more renters than there are apartments, at least in Boston (any part of Boston).

Regarding condos, there is still demand within the city, in every price range, as far as I can tell.

The number of new condos constructed in downtown Boston over the past five years might be well under 5,000 units - easily absorbed, even in a slow market (the Ritz took three years to sell out completely, but would you have expected anything different for something that large & that expensive, in that location?).

statler

03-29-2007, 11:28 AM

Morton's steakhouse opening on waterfront

Morton's The Steakhouse, a Chicago institution, is coming to the Seaport District of South Boston next year.

Morton's Restaurant Group, which owns and operates 74 steakhouse restaurants around the world, said it has signed a lease for its second Boston restaurant in the Seaport World Trade Center East Building near the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center.

"I am delighted to welcome Morton's to the South Boston Waterfront," Mayor Thomas M. Menino said in a statement included in the company's press release. ""Their decision to open a second location in Boston shows a great confidence in our city's economy."
(By Chris Reidy, Globe staff)
Posted by Boston Globe Business Team at 11:04 AM
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2007/03/mortons_steakho.html)

JoeGallows

03-31-2007, 03:33 PM

They just finished putting it up as I walked by.

http://fb.xenostarz.com/joestuff/construction/FPierSign.jpg

Arch21

04-20-2007, 11:38 PM

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/1621432.jpg
There is so much potential here I hope they don't screw it up

vanshnookenraggen

04-21-2007, 02:57 AM

My hope is that they realize the mistake of the development so far and try to add SOMETHING for street life. Also Fan Pier will be right next to the new Congress and Summer Sts development so perhaps it will influence the development. I can dream, right? :(

04-21-2007, 07:15 AM

They just finished putting it up as I walked by.

http://fb.xenostarz.com/joestuff/construction/FPierSign.jpg

The only way these three would 'find there way to fan pier' is if they were looking for there cars.

ablarc

04-21-2007, 09:40 AM

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/1621432.jpg
There is so much potential here I hope they don't screw it up
They're already in process of doing that.

The islands beyond are intriguing. A few deft interventions?

Mike

04-27-2007, 04:41 PM

BRA deputy has concerns over Seaport retail plans
Boston Business Journal - 2:57 PM EDT Friday, April 27, 2007
by Michelle Hillman
Journal staff

Boston Redevelopment Authority deputy director Richard McGuinness was surprised to learn John Hynes and W/S Development LLC plan 1.5 million square feet of retail in South Boston's Seaport District -- an area with the potential of being over saturated with retail, he says.

McGuinness' comments came during a presentation sponsored by the International Council of Shopping Centers held on Thursday evening where a W/S official mentioned the Seaport Square project is planning 1.5 million square feet of retail space. Seaport Square is being developed by Gale International and Morgan Stanley Real Estate in partnership with W/S Development LLC.

"The 1.5 million square feet new retail and entertainment was new and these are things we need to discuss with them," said McGuinness in a phone interview on Friday.

The panel featured speakers from some of the largest projects planned for the South Boston waterfront. According to McGuinness, who is in charge of waterfront planning for the BRA, a study commissioned a year ago found there was 636,754 square feet of retail "oversupply." He noted that the study, which measured retail demand based on the residential and commercial population, did not factor in people visiting the Boston Convention and Exhibition Center, professionals who live and work in the Financial District -- which is a 10-minute walk from the waterfront -- and people who would drive into Boston from the outer suburbs to shop.

The largest retail development proposed for South Boston is a two-phase project known as Waterside Place and Waterside Crossing. The mammoth mixed-used development is being proposed by the Drew Co. and is slated to include 750,000 square feet of retail space. The project is located across the street from the BCEC.

"There is a possibility there could be too much ground floor retail space," said McGuinness . "There may not be enough demand."

Link (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/04/23/daily49.html?jst=b_ln_hl)

ablarc

04-27-2007, 05:20 PM

"There is a possibility there could be too much ground floor retail space," said McGuinness . "There may not be enough demand."
Build it and they will come.

But make sure it's interesting enough that they want to come more than once.

Ron Newman

04-27-2007, 05:49 PM

It needs less shopping and more entertainment. Removing the originally proposed movie theatre makes no sense.

Bobby Digital

04-27-2007, 06:12 PM

i agree with ronny newman... it CLEARLY needs more entertainment...

everybody shits on the waterfront and its well warranted. it needs to attract people for it to be successful. tourists dont know how bad the architecture sucks... they care about what there is to do. it needs clubs... like landsdown. and bars with live music for the 30-40's somethings. small privately owned art galleries. maybe charter boats for fishing? whale watches? harbor cruises? water taxis? parks? which already exist.... it needs a draw and the ICA will benefit and the clubs will benefit from the ICA. this is how this endeavor works..... retail will follow the money. the childrens museum isnt far away... its gotta be a tourist attraction the way its built and then the hotelers can walk out their door and have something to do, especially in the summer.

JimboJones

04-27-2007, 09:30 PM

Just wanted to throw this out here on this thread.

I was over at the Convention Center today. I was totally against spending the $800 million to build it, and I think I'm still against the idea.

Having said that, it's an awesome building. It's real purdy on the inside and the views of the rest of the Seaport District / Fort Point Channel area are amazing.

briv

04-27-2007, 11:34 PM

It needs less shopping and more entertainment. Removing the originally proposed movie theatre makes no sense.

Needs less of both (what is planned) and much, much more residential.

chumbolly

04-27-2007, 11:36 PM

I was at the presentation discussed in that BBJ article. It was somewhat stunning to hear the BRA say that Gale's development would have too much retail, and the general counsel for Legal Seafoods (which is currently making a killing with its Test Kitchen concept because its one of the only restaurants in the area) also said that there was the likelihood that there would soon be too many restaurants in the Seaport. Right next to downtown and the convention center? And with millions of square feet of residential planned? Whatever. I think the real issue is that Gale's retail will compete with Fallon's retail, and the mayor wants Fallon to win. Perhaps the mayor has good intentions and he just wants to ensure that Fan Pier finally gets built out and succeeds, but the cynic in me thinks the game is rigged. It's worth noting that Fallon's plans for Fan pier is essentially a bunch of tall towers crammed in on a narrow street grid broken up by green space, while Gale's approach seems to be much more of a mix of mid-rise that mirrors the rhythm of the existing Fort Point Channel area. I'm thinking more and more that the lack of vision on the waterfront is a direct result of the mayor's meddling. We complain a lot on this board about NIMBYs, but imagine if this city was led by someone like Bloomberg who was hell-bent on decking over rail yards and highways. We deserve better.

stellarfun

04-28-2007, 06:25 AM

The BRA guy makes an excellent point. With just these two projects, that's 2.25 million sq ft. of space.

Size of the Cambridgeside Galleria: 900,000 sq. ft.
Size of the North Shore Mall: 1.7 million sq ft.
Size of the largest Wal-Mart in Massachusetts: 210,000 sq ft. (Its in Leicester)

A Nordstrom or a Bloomingdale's is probably not going to want more than 200,000 square feet. So if you are fortunate enough to get both, that leaves 1.8 million sq ft of space (gross) to still lease. Failing to get those two and/or a JC Penny, you are left with big box stores as your only other option. I don't think conventioneers are going to throng a Target, a BestBuy, or a Bed, Bath, & Beyond.

As a point of comparison, there is a big retail complex just across the river from Washington known as Pentagon City & Pentagon Row. (Its named after the adjacent 6.5 million sq ft (gross) building.) The anchor stores are Macy's and Nordstrom. The square footage of Pentagon City & Pentagon Row is 2 million square feet, and there is another 400,000 square feet or retail nearby. Besides having a subway station (with different lines) this retail area is surrounded by 14 million sq ft of non-government-owned office space, 10,500+ housing units, and 5,500 hotel rooms. There is, however, no convention center.
http://www.arlingtonvirginiausa.com/index.cfm/6223

And yes, its pre-cast city .

Padre Mike

04-28-2007, 06:55 AM

Whatever observations and concern may be expressed about excessive retail space, I'm all for the marketplace straightening this matter out over time. The Back Bay, which was almost exclusively residential at first, save for institutions such as MIT, the BPL and a lot of churches, has evolved over time to include much more retail than would have been expected at first. Newbury St. was built originally for residences.

chumbolly

04-29-2007, 08:37 AM

ablarc

04-29-2007, 08:52 AM

BRA's been pontificating about too much retail for decades. Now they've been joined by Vivian Li.

Doom and gloom: everyone will go broke.

Let the investors worry about that, guys and gals.

12345

04-29-2007, 04:21 PM

Has anyone seen this site, the buildings look pretty good.

http://www.arrowstreet.com/project.php?p=45&c=8&PHPSESSID=b85ca165ecf2ef15685759bb6c44be07

awood91

04-29-2007, 04:41 PM

^uggg, they did park lane seaport. that one bad design ruined a lot of the waterfront. :(

vanshnookenraggen

04-29-2007, 05:09 PM

So much fucking open space! This is America, we have to have more!

tmac9wr

04-29-2007, 08:10 PM

That looks like a really nice design...is that Fan Pier? I wish there were more pictures and you could see them larger.

KentXie

04-29-2007, 08:13 PM

At least it has a lot of glass.

singbat

04-29-2007, 10:24 PM

darkfenx, why is glass in and of itself a good thing?

DudeUrSistersHot

04-29-2007, 11:33 PM

darkfenx, why is glass in and of itself a good thing?

cause it's not precast, i'm guessing?

KentXie

04-30-2007, 12:51 AM

darkfenx, why is glass in and of itself a good thing?

cause it's not precast, i'm guessing?
^^Yup

stellarfun

04-30-2007, 08:08 AM

Stellarfun--I realize it is useful to compare the proposed amount of retail to shopping malls because it is easy to peg their size, but that's apples and oranges. Aside from Waterside Place (which I wish would be given a long walk off one of the shorter piers in the area), none of the proposed retail that I am aware of is a mall. It is all ground-floor retail in mixed-use buildings. Would you say there's too much retail n Chinatown?
I know neither Seaport Square at 1.5 million square feet of retail and Waterside Place at 750,000 sq ft is a mall in the usual sense. But in total, that's a lot of retail if you don't have major anchor tenants or big boxes.

Quincy Market is 217,000 sq ft of retail.

The Time-Warner complex at Columbus Circle is 500,000 sq ft total; with no anchor tenant other than Whole Foods. (There is a 40,000 sq ft health club.) The retail portion is 350,000 sq ft; the remainder is entertainment and stuff for foodies. The largest of the seven restaurants is 13,500 sq ft.

South Street Seaport is 260,000 sq ft retail (gross).

Baltimore's Harbor Place (including the Gallery level) is 284,000 sq ft. retail.

I cite these four examples because the retail is almost entirely smaller stores and shops. And if that's the type of store you envision populating 2.25 million sq ft of space, that's a whole lot of shops.

kmp1284

04-30-2007, 01:06 PM

Depending upon what goes in for a hotel, that would be an excellent location for another Sports Club LA which tend to average in the 100,000 square foot region. The problem is, the Sports Club isn't going to waste their time with a Westin or some other anywhere in America brand, but if we could score a much needed Four Seasons, Loew's, Shangri La or even Ritz-Carlton, it would work out great. There's definitely a need for something above average down there.

sidewalks

04-30-2007, 04:04 PM

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that the arrowstreet proposal that is being discussed is on the site of Waterside Place. It is a proposal that was rejected. The model is actually in the front offices of Arrowstreet in Davis Square. I think you can actually see the roof of the convention center in the rendering...it is protruding over summer street in the bottom right hand corner.

vanshnookenraggen

04-30-2007, 05:34 PM

/\ Ok, I can see that.

I actually like Waterside Place. I just wish it had a park on top.

I am not against urban malls, in fact I think they can work really well, especially in an area with as much inclement weather as Boston.

12345

05-06-2007, 02:33 PM

Is this zoning accurate?

http://www.bostonseaport.com/BRA/Heights.gif

ablarc

05-06-2007, 02:49 PM

^ How do people acquire the wisdom to make such precise and fine-tuned microdecisions (that then acquire the force of law)?

It can't be planning programs or architecture school or field experience that makes them so wise that they can parse building heights with such precision from block to block, 'coz if it were, tyros like me could be right in there with them, confident in rightness and expertise.

TheBostonBoy

05-19-2007, 12:47 PM

Wow, that zoning sucks...absolutely no height. I thought they allowed buildings to be a little taller! Damn, the SBW could be so much taller. I wish it was

kennedy

05-20-2007, 08:28 PM

That was so depressing. No pun intended. We could have such a great city, but this damn BRA won't let us. I say, have all of the people on this board, who are able, try and get hired at the BRA.

Charlie_mta

05-20-2007, 08:38 PM

"BRA" mission statement: To uplift Boston

:twisted:

atlantaden

05-20-2007, 09:12 PM

Damn, the SBW could be so much taller. I wish it was

Take it up with the FAA.

vanshnookenraggen

05-20-2007, 10:27 PM

I say, have all of the people on this board, who are able, try and get hired at the BRA.

Being a low level employee at the BRA won't change shit. It has to come from the top. Who here wants to run for Mayor?

I would but I ain't old enough or politically connected enough.

shiz02130

05-20-2007, 11:14 PM

I'm thinking about running for city council.

kennedy

05-21-2007, 09:09 AM

well then we could be high level employees. im sure there are a few of us who are mit/harvard grads

kz1000ps

05-27-2007, 05:42 PM

A billboard up on Broad St.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4013/img0912pw5.jpg

vanshnookenraggen

05-27-2007, 06:41 PM

Seriously, how much could it possibly cost to have those buildings different colors?!

jass

05-27-2007, 07:19 PM

So the I.C.A. really will be boxed in? I thought they'd want to use the land for expansion. Also, I see no parking. Are they really going from too much parking to not enough?

vanshnookenraggen

05-27-2007, 07:47 PM

Looking at this I see the potential for a new Battery Park City but I have a feeling that all we will get is a second Charles River Apartments.

justin

05-27-2007, 07:49 PM

So the I.C.A. really will be boxed in? I thought they'd want to use the land for expansion. Also, I see no parking. Are they really going from too much parking to not enough?

Parking will be underground.

kz1000ps

05-27-2007, 08:30 PM

Looking at this I see the potential for a new Battery Park City

And I saw a new Canary Wharf... same difference.

econ_tim

05-28-2007, 11:18 PM

So the I.C.A. really will be boxed in? I thought they'd want to use the land for expansion. Also, I see no parking. Are they really going from too much parking to not enough?

on these forums, i don't think there is such thing as "not enough parking."

;)

Ron Newman

05-29-2007, 02:00 PM

I'm sure some of these buildings will contain garages.

kennedy

05-29-2007, 05:16 PM

im sure the whole idea is to use public transport...

JimboJones

05-29-2007, 07:41 PM

Boston 2017 says there will be an improved Silver Line route down Commercial St.

Because it works so well, now ...

ChunkyMonkey

05-30-2007, 03:33 PM

Plane and simple: FAA firm on height limits for Seaport
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Wednesday, May 30, 2007

If you believe Mayor Thomas M. Menino calls all the development shots in Boston, think again.

When it comes to South Boston?s waterfront, the Hub?s long-promised new harborside neighborhood, the Federal Aviation Administration, not just City Hall, is setting the tone.

The FAA has been quietly pushing for years to limit the heights of new buildings planned for the Seaport, home to such monumental development proposals as the nearly three-million-square-foot Fan Pier project.

The federal agency regulates air travel at Logan and airports across the country. And it has been fighting to keep skyscrapers out of what is now a busy corridor for jets taking off from Logan - one that happens to be directly across the harbor from all that planned development.

Now, after years of lobbying, the FAA has emerged as the clear victor in the battle of the building heights.

Veteran tower developer John Hynes, as he lays out plans for a six-million-square-foot ?Seaport Square? development just across Northern Avenue, says his buildings will top out in the 250-to-270-foot range.

With a minor exception or two, Hynes expects his project to be no taller than the planned Fan Pier buildings next door - a big shift in previous planning.

The site?s former owner, Frank McCourt, who now owns the Los Angeles Dodgers, spent years talking up the idea that he would build a wall of towers that would gaze right over Fan Pier buildings onto the nearby harbor.

But Hynes acknowledged, in a recent interview that FAA height restrictions, among other factors, mean there will be no bid to build skyward over Fan Pier.

Instead, Hynes is crafting a plan that features a more human scale, comparable to the Back Bay. A school, hotels and offices are planned.

It?s a change that has happened without much public debate, driven mostly by behind-the-scenes edicts by the FAA.

?They (the FAA) are not interested in having a public discussion,? said Vivien Li, head of the Boston Harbor Association. ?They don?t want to be lobbied. These are technical safety considerations.?

Hynes is not the only one affected.

There?s a grudging consensus among developers with plans to build on or near the waterfront that their new hotels, office and condo high-rises will have to stay below the 300-foot limit.

Waterfront developer John Drew, for example is also expected to toe the FAA?s height line with his proposed Waterside Place,

Chicago?s billionaire Pritzker family waged a fierce and ultimately losing battle with the FAA to boost building heights on Fan Pier. By the time the dust settled in 2002 after months of wrangling, the economy had tanked and the Pritzkers decided to sell.

As more than one Boston developer has learned, its not just City Hall you can?t fight. It?s the FAA as well.

vanshnookenraggen

05-30-2007, 03:58 PM

GREAT! Developers are now forced to keep their buildings to a more human scale.

BostonSkyGuy

05-30-2007, 04:45 PM

As more than one Boston developer has learned, its not just City Hall you can?t fight. It?s the FAA as well.

That's like going up against Tyson and Ali if you're a developer.

lexicon506

05-30-2007, 05:59 PM

I thought it was pretty much already accepted that heights in the Seaport would be strictly limited. As much as I like height, the FAA is not being unreasonable. I've flown into and out of Logan many times, and the planes get very close to land over the Seaport. As long as the FAA stays out of Winthrop Sq. and SST, I'm cool with this one. And who knows, maybe forcing developers to build on a more human scale will result in the kind of development we're looking for, rather than the monolithic giants that are currently the norm. After all, its scale is what Boston is known for best.

JimboJones

05-30-2007, 06:14 PM

Is this news? Didn't they already have height limits written into the Seaport plan released like ten years ago? (I thought some had a 400-foot height, so maybe the lower heights proposals are new?)

Also, I thought it was funny that in the Globe this weekend, their renderings of Boston 2017 featured 115 Winthrop prominently, but SST was nowhere to be found. (Or am I wrong.)

TheBostonBoy

05-30-2007, 06:31 PM

Ya, your right. It was so weird how they didn't have SST. They made it seem like 115 Winthrop Square was like a definite go and that SST was quickly abandoned and forgotten about.... could this be our future??? :shock:
Anyways, it seemed like they focused mainly on 115 Winthrop, rather than other large towers like SST. I am glad you brought that up too because I had been wondering about that too lol

ablarc

05-30-2007, 06:41 PM

And who knows, maybe forcing developers to build on a more human scale will result in the kind of development we're looking for, rather than the monolithic giants that are currently the norm. After all, its scale is what Boston is known for best.
"Not human" scale is the result of big footprints, not tall buildings. There's a miniature skyscraper on Beacon Street facing the Common. It sits on a single lot that once had a town house, and no one thinks this building is out of scale on fine-grained Beacon Hill. There's an even taller apartment building on Commonwealth Avene around Exeter Street that also occupies a house lot.

Now imagine a standard one-story Wal-Mart in the Financial District or North End. Now that would be seriously out of human scale!

JSic

05-30-2007, 07:50 PM

Ya, your right. It was so weird how they didn't have SST. They made it seem like 115 Winthrop Square was like a definite go and that SST was quickly abandoned and forgotten about.... could this be our future???
Lots of projects were missing from that rendering along with the SST. Russia Wharf wasn't there either. Heck, the new glass building next to Russia Wharf (I forget the name) that's already built wasn't in the rendering!

bosman

05-30-2007, 08:28 PM

Don't take too much stock into them leaving out SST. For one, they were only focusing on the more prominent development projects (i.e. Trans National Place and the Seaport District). Also, SST has been dormant for awhile now. It's approved, but to this point, I don't think there has been any action regarding any sort of development at the site.

TheBostonBoy

05-30-2007, 08:49 PM

Ya true. They were just trying to keep your attention on Trans National Place and whatnot. If they put SST their, people would be like I have never seen that tower, what is that? So true that

xec

05-30-2007, 09:20 PM

And who knows, maybe forcing developers to build on a more human scale will result in the kind of development we're looking for, rather than the monolithic giants that are currently the norm. After all, its scale is what Boston is known for best.
"Not human" scale is the result of big footprints, not tall buildings.
It's not the result of tall buildings, but it's not necessarily the result of big footprints either. The Mandarin Oriental has a footprint that's bigger than most Seaport buildings but in the MO thread no one has criticized it for being a monolithic giant, which it is. In fact, it's being praised for enhancing Boylston St, which it does. So a big footprint does not automatically equal an inhumanly-scaled streetscape. I consider the WTC complex human-scaled, thought in a very different way than the Back Bay.

statler

06-01-2007, 06:40 AM

Billboards push Fan Pier offices: Project starts in fall
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Friday, June 1, 2007

Fan Pier developer Joseph Fallon has unleashed an unusual marketing blitz - featuring billboard ads aimed at office tenants - as he prepares to break ground on the giant waterfront project this fall.
Fallon has begun renting out billboards across the city aimed at creating a buzz in the office market. The ad features a man seated in an office chair and juggling a baseball while in front of a computer. The slogan next to him: ?Find Yourself at Fan Pier, Amazing Offices.?
The billboards have gone up in the Financial District, near Fenway Park [map] and at the Fresh Pond rotary in Cambridge, with others planned for the Expressway and the Massachusetts Turnpike, among other locations.
Fallon bought the Fan Pier site with partner Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co. for $115 million in 2005.Planning a nearly three-million-square-foot mixed-use development, Fallon recently opened a sales office on the site.
To drum up interest, he?s even planning to anchor a hot-air balloon to show off the waterfront site?s spectacular harborside views.
?We are being true to our commitment to get it started,? Fallon said.
The veteran waterfront developer, who built the headquarters hotel for Boston?s new convention center, now seeks to break ground on the long-awaited project?s first building - a 500,000-square-foot office high-rise - in either September or October. The launch is expected to be a landmark event, kicking off a showcase waterfront project first conceived a quarter century ago, but beset by a string of epic controversies and setbacks.
While he is prepared to begin work without any tenants lined up, Fallon predicts a number of deals with various office tenants will be ironed out by the time construction begins.
Fallon said he plans to begin work on a condo/hotel high-rise in the spring, with other buildings to follow.
Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/realestateNews/view.bg?articleid=1004191)

Mike

06-05-2007, 10:56 AM

GLOBE EDITORIAL
Fan Pier fantastic

June 3, 2007

AFTER 20 YEARS of controversy, a building has been constructed on the parking lot that occupies the best undeveloped site on the Boston waterfront. This one-story marketing center looks nothing like the lavish 18-story office building or 20-story hotel/condominium building that are among those planned for the site. But it's an indication that Joseph Fallon, the developer, is ready to start construction on the project. If the final build-out looks as good as the developer's computer-rendered image shown above, it will be worth the wait.

The enhanced photo hangs inside the marketing center, which Fallon will open in a couple of weeks to seek tenants for his first office building, with a groundbreaking scheduled for the fall. The office building will be located just to the downtown side of the park that is at the lower left of the image. Fallon will soon put up another marketing center to seek tenants for a residential/hotel building in back of the Institute of Contemporary Art. He hopes to begin construction of the second building next year.

With office space in greater demand than residential property, this construction sequence makes sense. Fallon said in an interview last week that the office market is tightening and that tenants are looking for energy-efficient space. It's not hard to imagine the marketing pitch -- a beautiful site and a thrifty, "sustainable" building.

While it will take a decade or so for all eight buildings to be completed, Fallon plans to immediately construct the park and the dock that will form a cove across from the ICA. Creation of the park will lessen the unpleasantness of construction. And the dock will facilitate the expansion of water taxi services.

Development of the Fan Pier means the erosion of the huge parking lot that has served commuters for decades. The MBTA Silver Line is one alternative to the car, but that bus service is getting crowded because of development elsewhere on the waterfront. The Massachusetts Port Authority is planning to build a water transit stop farther down the waterfront. People who live or work on the Fan Pier will need reliable water transit as well.

The computer-enhanced image is a wonderful seagull's-eye view of the development, which emphasizes the green space and the docking facilities along the water. But the image doesn't offer much information on the office building planned for the far interior, next to the federal courthouse. The Boston Redevelopment Authority, which has final say over the design, needs to make sure that this area is not left in shadows for most of the day by looming high-rises.

"There's no other site on the East Coast like this," Fallon said, referring to the waterfront location, proximity to downtown, and the cultural amenities of the ICA next door. With luck and a tweak or two, Fan Pier will become an enduring enhancement of the city.

Link (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2007/06/03/fan_pier_fantastic/)

palindrome

06-05-2007, 04:20 PM

With luck and a tweak or two, Fan Pier will become an enduring enhancement of the city.

with luck? How about with some design vision and common sense?

:roll: :? :? :?: :roll:

ablarc

06-05-2007, 04:53 PM

The computer-enhanced image is a wonderful seagull's-eye view of the development...
Anyone have this available to post?

ablarc

06-05-2007, 04:57 PM

So the I.C.A. really will be boxed in? ...Also, I see no parking. Are they really going from too much parking to not enough?
It's a city. Zero parking is enough parking.

Bobby Digital

06-05-2007, 09:08 PM

i really dont understand comments like that that ablarc.

you would have a point if we had a subway that
1. was open 24 hrs,
2. was more passenger friendly, and
3. that was much, much faster. trying to take the B line all the way to the end takes fucking days. and the green line is annoying as hell to ride.

Parking is a good thing in my book. How do you get around the city? or do you?

Ron Newman

06-05-2007, 09:18 PM

you would have a point if we had a subway that
1. was open 24 hrs

The ICA closes well before the subway does.

atlrvr

06-05-2007, 09:40 PM

My wife and I moved to Boston with our 7 year old son last summer. We sold one car before we moved and our other shortly after coming here. I couldn't imagine driving anywhere in the city. The condo we bought includes a parking spot which I rent out. I would consider buying a car in maybe 1-2 years as we have a child on the way, and it may be easier to drop off our son at his school and our new son at daycare (I currently take my son to school via subway), but mostly just for something to get away on the weekends. I rent a car about once a month now and take a cab maybe once a week.

Parking definitely should be limited, as it is typically more of a hassle than its worth, its just a "feel good" option for visitors who chose not to learn how to navigate transit. These people, and their lack of "driving in Boston" knowledge it what makes the city so unfriendly to drive in in the first place. You never know what stupid move they are planning to make.

All that said....the Silver Line is worthless, and I do sympathize with someone preferring to drive to the SBF.

jass

06-05-2007, 11:25 PM

you would have a point if we had a subway that
1. was open 24 hrs

The ICA closes well before the subway does.

But the restaurants in the area dont. Anthonys, No Name, among others. Also, the late night cruise yacht departs from there. Not only do people dress in their most formal, but it probably comes back once the T is closed.

It is naive to think the city does not need parking.

Ive been in this part of Boston after the T has closed. And when the first red line train doesnt leave South Station until 6:15am on a Sunday, waiting is hardly an option if you go to this area on a Saturday night.

nico

06-06-2007, 04:51 PM

czsc wrote:
"That's an odd, if creative idea, nico. I'm not sure the harbor would keep its ambience were it packed with gargantuan floating parking platforms, though."

I couldn't be sure what it would look like, but what ambiance are you referring to? I'm not talking about packing the harbor with ships, or having a ship @ Rowes Warf...that would ruin the view of the airport.
Having one in Charlestown/North End wouldn't be that bad. And I don't think it would be at all out of place in the Navy Yard...a place where they used to build these things. The people who are into ambiance might actually like it if done right.
As it is now, there are huge tankers docked on a regular basis on the Mystic river side of Charlestown; an old, aircraft carrier customized for parking...a smaller one form the second world war perhaps, couldn't look worse. And I do think it could help the restaurant business in the N.E. by providing suburbanites a place to park.

castevens

06-06-2007, 04:55 PM

It would be like driving past Fall River and seeing the top of the battleship from the rotting bridge. It reminds me of my childhood memories from when I slept over on the ship with my boyscout troop...

I think it would be really cool, even if its not realistic, to use an aircraft carrier for that purpose. If anything, it would add character.

Lrfox

06-06-2007, 05:52 PM

The idea for using aircraft carriers for parking is more realistic than it seems. It's also a good one. Technically it may not even be "floating" parking either. Depending on the depth where they put it, it could even be "locked" to the river bed by concrete, or grounded. The Battleship in Fall River used to be (but it was removed when it was brought to Quincy a few years back for repairs) and a few of the other ships in Battleship Cove are locked into place . I can't imagine it would take too much work to turn an old carrier into a parking garage. It may be more costly than building a regular garage, but it would sure be a lot more aesthetically pleasing (Battleship Cove does an excellent job of taking the focus off of the slum that is Fall River when crossing that "rotting" bridge) and at the same time saving space.

I really like the idea and don't think it's unrealistic. Unlikely, however, is a different story.

statler

06-08-2007, 07:01 AM

S. Boston developer plans a private school
Critics say idea caters to the rich

By Tracy Jan, Globe Staff | June 8, 2007

The 23 acres in South Boston's Seaport District have been barren for decades, home to nothing but parking lots. But in a few years, a 2,500-unit housing complex could spring up, along with a performing arts center, two health clubs, a public garden, and an unusual perk: a private school.

Developer John B. Hynes III said he hopes that the school, which will serve 1,500 children from kindergarten through high school, will help attract families and company executives to the area. Owners and renters of the mix of condos and apartments in the development would get first dibs on seats in the school, which would be open to outsiders if room is available, he said.

But the plans, submitted yesterday to the Boston Redevelopment Authority, are not sitting well with city and Boston public school officials. To them, Hynes, the grandson of former Boston mayor John B. Hynes , is implying that the city's public schools aren't good enough and signal ing that he plans to cater to the upper class.

Hynes, who is modeling the Seaport development after a project in South Korea, said he will strive to have a socioeconomic mix in the new residences and the school. "This isn't a class warfare issue," said Hynes, CEO and president of Gale International. "We're bringing in more families, and there's a component out there that's looking for this type of educational platform."

Hynes, who also built the State Street Financial Center in 2003, said he expects the city and state approval process, which can occur in phases, to take up to 18 months. Construction for the entire project would take three to four years. The school, which would probably open in 2012 and is tentatively called the Seaport International School, will focus on foreign languages, science, and technology. A board of Harvard professors and educators from prominent prep schools including Milton and Concord academies will help design the 3,000 square foot school and develop its curriculum.

Hynes estimated that high school tuition would be between $25,000 and $30,000; fees would be lower for elementary and middle grades. He plans to set aside 5 percent to 10 percent of seats for low-income Boston children, who would be admitted on full scholarship based on an entrance exam.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino called Hynes's school proposal a "hare-brained idea," saying not enough families live in the Seaport area now or in the near future to warrant building a new public or private school.

"We're not going to build schools for political purposes," Menino said. "We put them where they're needed."

While upper middle-class families on Beacon Hill and the Back Bay have clamored for a neighborhood public school for years, the mayor has put new schools in the more diverse neighborhoods of Dorchester, Mattapan, and Roxbury, which have seen booms in school-aged children.

South Boston's developing waterfront only has about 100 families with children under 18, according to the Boston Redevelopment Authority. The authority predicts that by 2040, there will be about 3,100 families with children .

Boston schools superintendent Michael G. Contompasis said the school system's five South Boston elementary schools, none of which are near the waterfront, could accommodate population growth at Seaport. He said he does not see the need for the private school.

"He's catering to the upper end," Contompasis said. "This guy's just coming out and saying they don't want anything to do with the public schools and will build their little enclave. What's he going to do? Put a big gate around the place? He should know better. Wasn't he the grandson of a former mayor?"

Vivien Li, executive director of the Boston Harbor Association and a supporter of Hynes's plans, said the developer decided it would be politically easier to build a private school than to convince the school system to locate a new public school in the neighborhood.

"He felt it was too much of an uphill battle," Li said.

Hynes said his development, called Seaport Square, would not solely cater to the rich. The residential project, located between Congress and Seaport Boulevard, would be a mix of apartments and condos that would cost between $500 and $1,000 per square foot if the units were selling today. The price will match market prices in the area. Affordable housing would make up between 10 percent and 15 percent of the units.

Private schools geared toward residents in new housing is an unusual but increasingly popular amenity, especially in areas where public schools have earned a bad reputation, according to the National Association of Independent Schools, in Washington, D.C.

"For some developers, a private school is the new must-have, equivalent to granite countertops, great rooms, or garages," said Myra McGovern, the association's spokeswoman.

Still, many developers who initially talk about starting a private school drop the plans, she said, when they have trouble finding educators to run the school. By statute, private schools are also supposed to be approved by the local public school committee.

Patrick F. Bassett, president of the independent schools association, said Hynes's idea is smart. The city has intense competition for private schools.

"They want young, prosperous families, of course, and young, prosperous families want neighborhood schools they can count on and they're increasingly worried that can't be a public school," Bassett said.

Private schools have sprung up in similar high-end developments in Missouri, California, and New Jersey, according to the national private schools group.

Hynes said he hopes the Seaport development will be as popular as New Songdo City in South Korea, a 1,500-acre high-rise urban development he is overseeing. The project includes two international schools developed by the same Harvard advisory group that will work on the Seaport school.

The South Korean schools have been the primary draw for thousands of prospective residents, Hynes said. The development drew 65,000 applicants for 2,500 units, he said. The development, which includes office space, also drew corporations seeking to relocate their headquarters and executives, something Hynes hopes will happen in South Boston.

Some residents said they hoped the new school would entice their neighbors to stay in the city to raise their children instead of fleeing to the suburbs.

"All this stuff should have been in the works a long time ago," said Steve Hollinger, co founder of the Seaport Alliance for a Neighborhood Design. "It's obvious by the number of kids [now there] that you need to plan for schools. It's pretty much A, B, C."

Tracy Jan can be reached at tjan@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/06/08/s_boston_developer_plans_a_private_school/)

statler

06-08-2007, 07:04 AM

STEVE BAILEY
Curse, continued

By Steve Bailey, Globe columnist | June 8, 2007

It is one of those maddening "only in Boston" moments we know all too well: A developer wants to build a school to make his megaproject more appealing, and the mayor turns it into class warfare.

This is a school we're talking about, and Tom Menino is not happy -- again. This is not just any school that John Hynes, president of Gale International, is talking about, but a private international school that could be a lure for the kind of global companies and executives that Hynes hopes his South Boston development will attract.

Hynes, the charismatic, sometimes tone-deaf grandson of a former mayor of Boston, will be at City Hall today, pitching his plans to transform 23 acres of mostly parking lots into a $2.5 billion project with 6.5 million square feet of offices, housing, hotels, and interesting public spaces. With no real waterfront of his own, Hynes, like Frank McCourt before him, is talking about building a new Back Bay.

But it is the private school that has Menino's goat.

"It will be only for the rich. I have real concern for that," the mayor says. "Let him build a public school."

In an effort to attract companies and families to his Seaport Square, Hynes wants to finance and build a private school, kindergarten through 12th grade, for 1,500 kids that will focus on language and science. Buy a condo, or rent an apartment, in his 2,500-unit project and have priority for a spot in the school -- if you can pay the tuition.

The companies that call Seaport Square home will also have priority for their employees. The concept is modeled on the two schools Gale is building as part of New Songdo City in South Korea, a $25 billion project grandly billed as "the Hong Kong of the 21st century."

But Hynes got himself in trouble, as he is sometimes apt to do, when he stated the obvious last week in a downtown meeting of the real estate community. He had the audacity to say that people sometimes move to the suburbs for the schools.

"Unfortunately, 200 to 300 young families leave the city annually because they don't want to send their kids to private school, can't get into the public school of choice, or don't want their 7-year-old spending two hours traveling to a private school, so they move to the suburbs," Banker & Tradesman reporter Thomas Grillo quoted Hynes saying.

The mayor, of course, sees that as dissing the public schools. "He has never been in a Boston public school," Menino told me yesterday.

Hynes, who lives in the Back Bay, replies that he will make about 10 percent of the school's spots available free to Boston students. He calls the international school a "great differentiator" for his project and for Boston itself. "We think it is going to be highly sought after," he says.

And so it goes. Boston is a big city, or at least is supposed to be. Good schools, public and private, are essential to a community's quality of life. If we are going to attract global companies to Boston, amenities like an international school are just what those families will want. And plenty of Boston area families will be interested, too. Build it, and they will come. Or so we hope.

This is cursed land, this barren McCourt property. Will the curse never end?

Steve Bailey is a Globe columnist. He can be reached at bailey@globe.com or at 617-929-2902.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/06/08/curse_continued/)

palindrome

06-08-2007, 07:17 AM

for the love of god shoot me now.

We really do live in a planned economy.

bosman

06-08-2007, 09:25 AM

I don't really see the issue here. Unless I am grossly mistakes, these new mega-developments (Fan Pier and Seaport Square) are trying to be geared towards a more upper-class demographic. Is it unfortunate that private schools are so expensive and exclusive, yes. However, if the mayor and his staff really want to make the education system fair for everyone in the city, they should probably focus on improving the Boston Public School system instead of crying about how someone wants to build a Private school in the city.

stellarfun

06-08-2007, 11:39 AM

His honor the mayor went to parochial school. The high school he attended, Thomas Aquinas, closed in 1975, as did, in 1970, the junior college from which he received an associates degree (Chamberlayne Junior College).

06-08-2007, 11:56 AM

It is unfortunate, but this is the reality......

Many families are now having kids in the city, but leave when they are old enough for school. I'm going to be facing the same decision myself in a few years. My only certainty at this point is that I know I won't be sending my child to Boston public schools. And I'm not the only one. Where I live in the South End you see parents with Strollers all the time, but I rarely see parents with children of school age.

The mayor's comments above prove he has lost touch with reality. Hynes model can work and instead of dismissing it he should have used it as an opportunity.

What the mayor should have done is work with Hynes to create a semi-private school where residents of the area can attend as a public, but parents outside the seaport could still pay to send their children there.

Boston currently is still busing students and parents have to apply to get into different schools. (I still can't figure out what the selection criteria is) The fact that uncertainty exists in the school a child goes to is why I'll be leaving. In my personal situation if I knew my child could get a quality education by moving to the seaport, I would seriously consider moving there. Without the school, I won't even consider it.

Beton Brut

06-08-2007, 12:41 PM

Ron Newman

06-08-2007, 12:44 PM

Perhaps a charter school would satisfy all parties?

shiz02130

06-08-2007, 12:54 PM

People shouldn't hate on the BPS without taking a closer look. Anyone else on this board besides me spend K1-12th in the BPS and think he got a way better education than some tony private school would have afforded?

That being said, Hynes can do whatever he wants. Of course a private school caters to the rich - so does the rest of his and all the other private developments in Boston. We've been over this before - the land is expensive, the process is mega-expensive, so the product will be expensive.

atlrvr

06-08-2007, 01:07 PM

I sent my son to BPS this year (1st grade), and we are NOT sending him back next year. We luckily were accepted into a private school, otherwise we probably would have moved out of the city. It is a shame the city doesn't understand this facts. If they want to keep families in the city, they need to either completely overhaul the school system, or encourage the creation of more pprivate schools.

vanshnookenraggen

06-08-2007, 01:36 PM

I am very happy there is going to be a school. This will bring much needed street life via kids during the afternoons. I live next to and international school and once school gets out the sun baked, wind swept plaza I live at teems with life. Yeah you COULD complain of kids running around but then you just sound like a crazy old coot.

atlantaden

06-08-2007, 08:02 PM

Actually, the mayor should be happy! All those families paying property tax which supports public education yet send their kids to this private school. That's a lot of extra money for the kids that do attend Boston public schools. I don't see the beef...and the Boston Superintendent of schools is as out of line with his comments as is the mayor. I was a public school teacher for 30 years and I see no problem here except for the comments from the mayor and superintendent. Is Hynes not kissing Mennino's butt or what? What is his problem?

Lurker

06-08-2007, 08:19 PM

bosman

06-08-2007, 09:53 PM

Alright, two things:

One, according to Banker & Tradesman Menino is not only after Hynes because of the school proposal, but Menino is also after Hynes because he is proposing too many shops in the Seaport Square development. For some reason, Menino seems convinced that the retail from Hynes's development will strip the rest of the city of its commercial success. Jeez, I think that Menino is single-handedly out to destroy this project.

Secondly, I found a rendering (the first one released, I believe) of Seaport Square:

http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/pub/5_286/breakingnews/196476-1.html

lexicon506

06-08-2007, 09:57 PM

Instead of creating a completely public or completely private school, why not build another Boston Latin? Residents of the Seaport could still get priority, as long as they got high enough test scores. And that way the school would be more open (and cheaper) to all BPS students.

czsz

06-08-2007, 11:53 PM

End busing, fund new local neighborhood schools with the saved transportation money. All city schools are equally funded per student head. Neighborhood character determines the character of the school, everyone has equal funding, problem solved.

This would lead to allegations that students in poor neighborhoods were being educationally "ghettoized" and that it would be better for children of poor, troubled households to be balanced out (and influenced) by those from wealthier, stable ones (which may have merit; school environment may have just as much to do with performance as funding)...not to mention the inevitable assertion that it reinforces Boston's pattern of de facto voluntary segregation, the attempted mitigation of which was the reason for the implementation of busing in the first place.

Instead of creating a completely public or completely private school, why not build another Boston Latin? Residents of the Seaport could still get priority, as long as they got high enough test scores. And that way the school would be more open (and cheaper) to all BPS students.

That sounds like a compromise without a purpose. Is Boston really aching for another test-in elite public school?

By the way, this Seaport Square rendering is, from what I can tell, bland as hell. At least the buildings seem to be glass.

http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/newspics/Seaport_Square_rendering.jpg

Lurker

06-09-2007, 08:35 AM

This would lead to allegations that students in poor neighborhoods were being educationally "ghettoized" and that it would be better for children of poor, troubled households to be balanced out (and influenced) by those from wealthier, stable ones (which may have merit; school environment may have just as much to do with performance as funding)...not to mention the inevitable assertion that it reinforces Boston's pattern of de facto voluntary segregation, the attempted mitigation of which was the reason for the implementation of busing in the first place.

Somehow the the drastic slide of BPS in the toilet over the last 30 years suggest busing is the wrong idea for improving the quality of education vs funding local schools. The BPS is more segregated than it was in the 70's, given that more than 85% of the system is minorities and no longer even remotely represents the ethnic background of the city. Judge William Garrity, well at least the harbor is clean, should have demanded equal funding for schools in minority neighborhoods and proportional neighborhood representation, rather than at large representation, on the school board. Busing and centralized schools have been a disaster and the tired race card and cult of victim-hood, pulled out whenever someone suggests ending it, needs to be thrown away in favor of stuff that actually works.

The school system's job is to educate students, not be some guilt tripping political social engineering project.

commuter guy

06-09-2007, 12:28 PM

The following applies to Boston families who are unwilling or unable to shell out $$ for private/parochial school tuition:

When my children reached kindergarten age about 2 years ago, we made a very difficult decision to sell our home in a wonderful neighborhood in Boston on the Roslindale/West Roxbury line due to school situation in Boston. Some families stay in the city, put their kids into the city schools, cross their fingers that their kids will test into an exam school when they get older and end up having a wonderful experience. However, get ready for years of hard work and effort because it often becomes a "second job" for families to get their children into an acceptable school. For my family, our concerns were whether we could land a spot in a school with a good reputation. At the elementary level there are only a few diamonds in the rough and its extremely competitive to land a spot through the lottery system. Further, the lack of neighborhood based schools was a big issue for me. You could have 20 kids on your block all going to different schools all over the city, none of the kids go to school with their neighbors (unless they go to the neighborhood parochial school) and social fabric of the neighborhood suffers. In addition, Boston schools will make a preference, but not guarantee, that siblings get a placement in the same school. Lastly, if my kids are anything like me they either won't make the cut or will not thrive at at the highly competitive exam schools when they get to Jr. high age and, at that point, you had better learn to part with your wallet in order to pay for multiple years of private school tuition for multiple kids. I think Boston schools are heading in the right direction, but the changes were too slow and too few by the time my kids were of school age. We reluctantly moved out to the suburbs and have found that life out here revolves around the local neighborhood based school. Significant connections between neighborhood kids and parents are made via the local neighborhood school. Overall, although we miss the stimulation and convenience of the city and our old neighbors, I'm happy I made the move for the kids.

On a different, but related note:

czsz said:

"not to mention the inevitable assertion that it reinforces Boston's pattern of de facto voluntary segregation, the attempted mitigation of which was the reason for the implementation of busing in the first place."

It is my understanding that all judicially imposed busing plans, including but not limited to Boston Public School, were based upon the Court finding intentional "de jure" actions by the school districts which violated civil right anti-discrimination laws. Accordingly, in recent years, the Courts have lifted such desegregation orders despite the fact that many neighborhoods have or are in the process of re-segregated themselves due to racial settlement patterns beyond the control of the school department.

On a completely different note:

The surface parking lots in the Seaport District have begun to increase their daily parking rates. Granted the parking lots are only going up a few buck here and there, but given the recent significant MBTA hikes, its a step in the right direction to discourage commuting by car into the city. I speculate those lots which are a relative bargain for Boston will see continuing price increases as land development starts to eliminate these lots and parking demand tightens up.

singbat

06-09-2007, 12:35 PM

The school system's job is to educate students, not be some guilt tripping political social engineering project.

k-12 schools are exactly supposed to be a political social engineering project. the only thing you missed was to add 'economic' to the list.

schools are all about socialization, the construction of civil society and the reinforcement of the political status quo. (anyone not recite the pledge of allegiance?) and secondarily, they are about providing a pre-trained and productive workforce to capital.

so it sounds like your argument is with the political status quo.

on the politico-economic front, mixing social classes, races, religions, etc. during primarily education could be assumed to generate a greater clash of ideas and engender more a more innovative population over the long term. that alone would be worth the price of admission in a state of ~7 million that routinely competes head-to-head with NY (~28 million) and CA (30+ million) for private capital, public funding, jobs, residents/employees, political influence, tourists, etc.

beyond that, a diverse primary education should lead to greater social and geographic mobility, which should be a secondary boost to the innovation economy, as well as to the productive deployment of local capital.

test tomorrow, and homework is due....

bosman

06-14-2007, 10:39 PM

It looks like Menino got what he wanted. Hynes has put the private school on hold.

http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/pub/5_287/breakingnews/196506-1.html

I really can't believe that Menino doesn't want this school built. It would be a major boost, and, no matter how much the Mayor doesn't like to admit it, the BPS aren't performing well lately, and Boston residents are indeed fleeing to the suburbs for schools. A school like the one proposed would only help curb that trend.

ablarc

06-15-2007, 06:27 AM

A component of the Boston ethos: commitment to proleterianization. Hence, no private school. Smacks of elitism.

atlrvr

06-15-2007, 10:14 AM

Truly ridiculous.....with all the negatives to the location, Silver Line service being the chief culprit, the private school was really the only selling point. It allowed a family to live in the SBF without need for mass transit. If the mayor thinks that a family paying $600k is going to send the elementary school kid to any school in the South Zone (except maybe Perry, which has less than 200 students), well, then he is more out of touch than I imagined.

A private school serving K-12 would have been just what this portion of the city needed, and would helped establish the SBF as a legitamate family oriented neighborhood, and over time, some of that may trickle down to the public schools.

Mike

06-20-2007, 02:35 PM

Turner Construction wins contract for Fan Pier office tower
Boston Business Journal - 2:40 PM EDT Wednesday, June 20, 2007
by Michelle Hillman
Journal staff

The Fallon Co. has awarded Turner Construction Co. the contract to build the first office tower on Fan Pier.

The 500,000-square-foot, 18-story office building will break ground in October and is expected to open by the end of 2009 when demand for office space is expected to be at a high, said Charles Buuck, senior vice president at Turner Construction. The building will cost $125 million to construct.

"We're going to start the first building," said Buuck. "You know that there's going to be demand for office space in the city coming up."

The construction contract is one of several expected to be awarded by the Fallon Co. which is developing the waterfront site in South Boston with its partner Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co.

The Boston Business Journal first reported in January that Fallon would move ahead with the construction of an office building on a "speculative" basis or regardless of whether he had signed leases.

Last June Fallon hired three architecture firms to design four buildings totaling 1.8 million square feet and including office, hotel, residential and retail uses.

Since buying the 20.5 acre site in 2005 for $115 million, Fallon and MassMutual have hired architects, publicists and real estate brokerage firms to help him design, market and lease what will eventually be a nine-building, 3 million square foot development including office, hotel, residential and retail uses.

Fallon has opened an on-site marketing center and recently began providing hot-air balloon rides to potential tenants and residents.

Link (http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/06/18/daily30.html)

kmp1284

07-03-2007, 03:17 PM

This is the layout proposed for Fan Pier from a mailing I received earlier this afternoon.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/kmp1284/07-03-2007035938PM.jpg[/img]

vanshnookenraggen

07-03-2007, 03:35 PM

Those street names are atrocious.

czsz

07-03-2007, 03:47 PM

Agreed; the appendages "Drive", "Way", and "Boulevard" should be banned from Boston. I do rather like "Bond Street", though.

And it's wonderful to finally get broken blocks and new streets in the Seaport district, although single-building blocks are likely to lead to the sort of awkward results (loading docks clashing with entryways on different sides of the road) at the back of the new Marriott.

kmp1284

07-03-2007, 03:48 PM

To top it off, the only decent one, Bond, already exists in the South End.

blade_bltz

07-03-2007, 04:24 PM

Liberty Drive is one of the most obnoxious street names I've ever seen

Lrfox

07-03-2007, 04:40 PM

Eh... the street names aren't all that important. Granted, these are lame as hell, but it's the project that's important, not the street names.

I am glad to see that the buildings (at least from the looks of this) are right on the edge of the sidewalk. I have no problem with open space on a waterfront (even in an urban area), but i hate excessive grassy area or plaza space between a building and the street. This doesn't seem to be an issue here anyway (from what i can see).

I still fear this turning into a suburban office/ condo park though. and while i don't care about street names, "boulevard" and "drive" don't help my fears.

Ron Newman

07-03-2007, 10:39 PM

Agreed; the appendages "Drive", "Way", and "Boulevard" should be banned from Boston..

you want to rename Storrow Drive, Morrissey Blvd, Day Blvd, Fenway, Riverway, Jamaicaway, and Arborway?

czsz

07-03-2007, 10:56 PM

I like "way" when it's attached to the word; it's a quirky and at least somewhat local touch. "Way" detached from the word is a far more suburban instance.

Storrow Drive is appropriate because it really is just that - a highway on which one drives, not a street with other functions/uses. And yes, I do think "Morrisey Boulevard" sounds hideous.

If Boston were to properly plan a new neighborhood I would argue for, perhaps, New England writers' names. Hawthorne, Emerson, Alcott and Thoreau are far more inspiring than these insipid, clearly corporate-spawned names. "Boulevard Thoreau" is perhaps one instance in which I could tolerate that term...his name does sound appropriately French, and Boston does have a precedent in the "Avenue Louis Pasteur".

palindrome

07-04-2007, 07:16 AM

That sounds like a great idea ^, and so simple too. I don't know what the though process developers take, but members of this board blow them away on idea's sometimes.

These street names sound so gimocky (sp?) its not even funny.

Bobby Digital

07-04-2007, 07:44 AM

Boulevard should be banned from boston?

get the fuckouttahere

Equilibria

07-04-2007, 10:50 AM

I would tend more toward blaming the front end of these names rather than the back...

Would "Liberty Street" make you feel any better, or maybe "Fan Pier Road?"

Even the developer using his own name in a show of ego would be better than this. Does every new construction project in the U.S. have to use "Liberty" in the naming scheme somewhere? Even the Big Dig was going to call the I-93 tunnels the "Liberty Tunnel." It's vaguely McCarthy-esque, or at least not particularly creative.

On the other hand, these names can always be changed, and its pretty easy right up until people move in.

briv

07-04-2007, 12:43 PM

The development itself it far more offensive than the street names. Anyways, I would assume all these streets will eventually be rechristened with more meaningful names as time goes on. How's Avenue des Menino sound?

Ron Newman

07-04-2007, 03:20 PM

There's a Liberty Avenue in West Somerville. It's a residential street that has probably had that name for a century or more.

czsz

07-04-2007, 04:12 PM

How's Avenue des Menino sound?

Or Corso di Menino, to keep it linguistically consistent...it can be thrashed through Hyde Park.

Does every new construction project in the U.S. have to use "Liberty" in the naming scheme somewhere?

Yes, unless it uses the word "Freedom" (see the "Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Freedom Bridge" controversy). The exception is for residential developments, which only require excessive use of the suffix "-wood" (has Libertywood been taken yet?)

atlantaden

07-04-2007, 09:13 PM

^^^^^^^^^

I've never heard this. I had no idea that Freedom was part of the Zakim/Bunker Hill Bridge name. This is true?

czsz

07-04-2007, 10:24 PM

I'm not sure if it still is, but it was definitely (and seriously) considered for a time.

kz1000ps

07-30-2007, 04:56 PM

This was excerpted from an article titled "Moakley Courthouse takes on water" from this week's Boston Business Journal

While Dilks expects Fallon will face similar problems when constructing its planned 3 million square feet of office, residential and hotel uses on Fan Pier, developer Joseph Fallon says he is not worried.

"It's a matter of construction and who does the construction," said Fallon. "It just becomes a maintenance issue."

Fallon said another of his buildings, Park Lane Seaport, leaked when it was finished. Park Lane is a residential complex on Northern Avenue in South Boston. The leaks were plugged with grout and are no longer an issue.

"We're used to it in Boston," said Fallon. "Most of Boston is built on the water."

Even still, Dilks said he'd expect Fallon would face some of the same issues GSA has experienced at Moakley. Fallon said he plans to dig down until workers hit clay and build the foundation on clay rather than rock.

"I would assume he's going to watch it carefully," said Vivien Li, executive director of the Boston Harbor Association. "It's hard to build on the water, no question about it."

Building on water is a costly and complicated endeavor that takes sophisticated engineering and construction methods. However, few sites are more complicated than Fan Pier, which consists of filled tidelands and is largely undeveloped except for the Moakley Courthouse. One of the main reasons Fan Pier went undeveloped was because of the tricky construction required to create underground parking. Rather than build a giant "bathtub" for parking underneath all of the buildings, Fallon decided to build the garages as each building was constructed.

"I don't think these are insurmountable problems," said Li. "I mean look at how many buildings we have on the waterfront."

Although Fallon is awaiting Chapter 91 approval for his first three buildings, the state Department of Environmental Protection relies on engineers' drawings and will only address concerns about the project if the public raises questions during the comment period.

"We rely on the professional engineers who design the building to address these issues," said the DEP's Andrea Langhauser.

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/othercities/boston/stories/2007/07/30/story3.html?b=1185768000^1497331