Green Line Type 9 sketchs/renderings.

[palindrome]

https://www.commentmgr.com/Projects/1228/docs/Green%20Line%20Type%209%20Vehicles%20-%20Concept%20Drawings.pdf

[KentXie]

Looks very sleek. Are these the replacement of the older fleet? Seems kind of quick since they only recently introduced the Breda.

[unterbau]

Do we know the origin of these sketches?

[statler]

If the Breda's are anything to go by, by the time this get funded, built and tested the current fleet will be quite old.

[unterbau]

Looks very sleek. Are these the replacement of the older fleet? Seems kind of quick since they only recently introduced the Breda.
Considering it's part of the Green Line Extension project site, they would probably be new cars needed to support the additional line.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Looks very modern, very European.

[Beton Brut]

So, these new Green Line cars...Lower cost of ownership? More durable finishes? Optimized for our climate? Stay on the rails at speeds > 35 MPH? Able to take tight turns?

[statler]

^ Probably not, but they are pretty.

[statler]

Looks very modern, very European.

A lot better than anything they are putting in your precious NYC, you dolt! ;)

[cden4]

I really wish there was a way to make the entire car low-floor. The stairs at each end are really a nuisance, and much of the time people refuse to walk up them, crowding the center portion of the cars.

[vanshnookenraggen]

A lot better than anything they are putting in your precious NYC, you dolt! ;)

Maybe but at least our new trains WORK!

[jass]

Looks very sleek. Are these the replacement of the older fleet? Seems kind of quick since they only recently introduced the Breda.

14 new cars for the extension.

And theyre garbage. They recycle the type 8 design, including all it's failures.

[statler]

^^ Source?

[Lurker]

One could dream that all the interior surfaces would be made of copper dominant alloys (mmmm.... bronze), copper treated bamboo weave fabrics, non cellular bacterial shedding plastics, etc. to end the germ breeding grounds public transit vehicles are. But I doubt anyone is thinking that far in detail.

[KentXie]

14 new cars for the extension.

And theyre garbage. They recycle the type 8 design, including all it's failures.

Isn't the extension scheduled to be done in 2014? I'm guessing we will be seeing these until at least then.

[czsz]

Looks like there's barely any seating.

[KentXie]

^^From the diagrams, it seems to have the same amount as the Breda.

[Equilibria]

Cden4:

The issue there seems to be the wheels... they have the trucks and motors below floor level I think.

I agree that these will probably roll out around the same time as the Medford extension... and that we won't see them on the D branch for another twenty years or so (unless the D is being assigned to run the extension - I forget what the plan is at the moment).

Honestly, I like the Bredas better. Those look funky/practical, and are somewhat distinctive. These just look like something from Charlotte/Phoenix/Zurich (in what other context can you list those three cities together?)

[armpitsOFmight]

A lot better than anything they are putting in your precious NYC, you dolt! ;)

hahaha

[jass]

^^ Source?

Id love to, but I dont remember what document its in. The fact that the documents are spread out all over the internet doesnt help....

greenlineextension.org/
http://www.eot.state.ma.us/
mbta.com
the new agency

etc etc


But trust me, 14 new cars for the extension (2014) and then a full order (either type 9 or type 10) for 2019 to replace the type 7s.

[jass]

\
Honestly, I like the Bredas better. Those look funky/practical, and are somewhat distinctive. These just look like something from Charlotte/Phoenix/Zurich (in what other context can you list those three cities together?)

And you know why that is?

Because these cities understand how important image is to getting people to ride public transportation.

Boston has always failed to make a link between image (self promotion) and ridership. Boston doesnt have to look like the new dubai subway, but if theres a FREE way to imrpove image, they need to take it. And today, that means curved trains/buses.

Boston also fails to understand how people act inside their bsues and trains. Fortunately, the newest buses have sideways seating near the back door which was moved more towards the rear....but clearly those lessons werent applied here.

[found5dollar]

i Love how the train looks like it is smiling......

and oh what a michevious smile it is!

[Shepard]

Basic questions: What sorts of malfunctions cause green line trains to die so often? How are these new trains going to perform better?

[cden4]

I do like the new sleeker curved look of these new Type 9 designs. I've always found the Type 8s to be pretty fugly, in part because they are so boxy looking, but also because they used that ugly teal-green color instead of the darker green color of the old Type 7s. The fact that they used the Type 6s(?) in the Green Line Extension animations says something about what even EOT thinks about the look of the Type 8s!

[Equilibria]

And you know why that is?

Because these cities understand how important image is to getting people to ride public transportation.

Boston has always failed to make a link between image (self promotion) and ridership. Boston doesnt have to look like the new dubai subway, but if theres a FREE way to imrpove image, they need to take it. And today, that means curved trains/buses.

I've heard this argument applied to US cities before (Chicago, notably), and it may be true for Boston as well, but in my opinion the Bredas aren't a good example. I've been living away from Boston since roughly the time they went into service, and I rode them last month for the first time in a while. They look new, and while they might not be as sleek as the new designs (or the Kinkis for that matter) they look handsome.

It's interesting that the word "fugly" was used for the Type 8s, because that's exactly the word I'd use to describe the proposed Type 9s, and definitely the word I would use for many of the models in the countries that "get it".

When you're trying to sell a brand new transit system as the way of the exotic future, I suppose it makes some sense to have the vehicles resemble insects. In Boston, though, we know exactly what the Green Line is... and isn't. There has been light rail and streetcars in this city for over a hundred years. I don't think you'll fool anybody with curved Green Line trains any more than Toyota would fool anybody by putting a giant spoiler and futuristic face on the next Camry.

Indeed, when I see low-slung curvy trains, I think of slow-gliding streetcars in mixed traffic, not heavy mass transit replacements going 45mph (I know that's only one line, but still).

If I loved these designs, I'd have no problem with this. Since personally I don't, I see no reason to emulate worse designs than we currently have. The T in general does need to improve it's form factor for image enhancement, though ("Driven by Customer Service" is as bad a slogan as has ever been thought up).

[czsz]

but if theres a FREE way to imrpove image, they need to take it. And today, that means curved trains/buses.

These curvy trains are far from free. In fact, they're probably the most expensive upgrade precious T money can buy. I'd rather it be spent on extending lines and service hours.

Most of the world's best-functioning and extensive transit networks have exceedingly boring rolling stock - look at New York, Paris, or Tokyo. Houston and Phoenix need cool trains because, in the absence of urban form that compels transit ridership, they're clinging to image in the desperate hope that they can somehow outperform the auto industry on aesthetics. Fat chance.

[Beton Brut]

The T in general does need to improve it's form factor for image enhancement, though ("Driven by Customer Service" is as bad a slogan as has ever been thought up).

How do you feel about "Worthless by Design"?

[jass]

These curvy trains are far from free. In fact, they're probably the most expensive upgrade precious T money can buy. I'd rather it be spent on extending lines and service hours.


The trains need to be purchased anyway. How is it far from free to make sure that they look modern? I doubt it costs anything extra to make the edges rounded.

[KentXie]

Indeed, when I see low-slung curvy trains, I think of slow-gliding streetcars in mixed traffic, not heavy mass transit replacements going 45mph (I know that's only one line, but still).



Haha I think the complete opposite. They remind me of the bullet trains in Tokyo.

[Lurker]

Well the MBTA could always bring back the classic traction orange, cream, and silver scheme to make the trolleys unique. But that would run counter to the color coded vehicle designations. Exempting the rust band-aid full body AD wraps of course.

Although, I must say, the color coding of the vehicles themselves and the stations on the lines is redundant. And to be honest I am genuinely surprised no mass transit vehicles in this maritime clime have aluminum outer shells to save on maintenance costs.

[kennedy]

To me, utilitarian is modern. And utilitarian design makes me think it might work. At the speeds these travel at, I doubt a few little curves in the front are going to make them much more aerodynamic.

Lurker, I like the color coding. A little retro. Easier to keep track of than numbered lines. Our T logo is better than any other transit logo in the world, and I'm being serious.

[statler]

I wouldn't mind aluminum bodies with colored strips, seems line a sensible solution.

[Lrfox]

Lurker, I like the color coding. A little retro. Easier to keep track of than numbered lines. Our T logo is better than any other transit logo in the world, and I'm being serious.

While I agree that the color coding makes it easy, I don't know about the logo being better than any other transit logo in world. The Metro in Paris and Underground in London stand out as being better. I felt that Madrid did a great job with not only the logo ("Metro") but the Colors too... especially when you consider how extensive the system is.

[statler]

Yeah, the Underground logo is easily the best.

[palindrome]

The MBTA is officially accepting proposals for (24) type 9 vehicles. Proposals are due April 1, 2011.

[datadyne007]

I wasn't around for the original posting of this thread, but I'll post some comments.

I've had one gripe about the Type 8s since they were introduced. They just feel too sterile, which is good in terms of health quality, but they lack the homeliness that the Type 7s have. The 8s feel cold and the 7s just feel warm and cozy to me (the interior finishes help this). I actually make an effort to board a Type 7 over a Type 8 whenever I can because I like the seating and layout better. It's not as big of a deal when you're only going a few stops, but my daily commute to work was from Brigham Circle to Lechmere.

The Type 9s continue the scheme the Type 8s set up and seem to take it one step further by introducing NYC-subway style bench seating instead of individual seats. Yeah, it's easier to clean up throw up off a bench than it is a single-seat, but it just loses that individuality that you can sometimes feel on the Green Line. An open single-seat says "yeah, you can sit here," while an open gap on a bench says "I guess, you can maybe squeeze in here." Call me nostalgic, but that's my take.

When it comes to mapping, I really like the MBTA's dedication to color. It helps to tell the story of the MBTA.

Finally the quote about the T logo is kind of silly. They stole it from Stockholm's T-Bana.

[Shepard]

What about 100% low floor?

I think I've heard there's a legitimate reason they can't, but can someone remind me what it is?

[manrush]

What about 100% low floor?

I think I've heard there's a legitimate reason they can't, but can someone remind me what it is?

It may have something to do with the ultra-sharp turns on the Green Line.