Congress Street Garage Development

[JohnAKeith]

A North End resident told me that the school is oversubscribed now. The situation is not helped, she suggested, by the fact that 50% of the seats go to students outside the neighborhood. (I'm not an expert on Boston busing, so I don't know if this is true.)

[mass88]

The next meeting is now on the developers site. One thing I missed the first time is that it will be held at ---->City Hall<----, not at the garage.

Thursday April 2 at 6:00 pm at Boston City Hall, BRA Board Room, Room 900.

March 25ths presentation is now online:
http://www.demolishthegarage.com/pdf/presentations/pres_2009_03_25.pdf

Are the meetings worth going to?

[jass]

Why not close the existing north end school and make one larger, happier school at this location?

[Beton Brut]

^ They're interesting, and sometimes lively. We've joked about the food: the developer has had a spread (coffee, finger-food, sandwiches) at his meetings, but don't expect the same trappings from the BRA.

In all seriousness, these meetings improve (no matter where they happen, or what's on the agenda) when more interested and well informed parties (like those who post here) attend. Be prepared to listen attentively (to folks you may not agree with), and be civil and honest in equal measure. Thoughtful questions and informed comments improve the process.

[kennedy]

Why not close the existing north end school and make one larger, happier school at this location?

I'd rather see one larger, happier school in the North End, to accomodate the North End students. They could walk to school, rather than bus or risk their lives crossing the surface roads. Although, they would get the opportunity to play catch in the nice weather...

[vanshnookenraggen]

The only people I want to hear from about schools are parents and teachers.

[kennedy]

The only people I want to hear from about schools are parents and teachers.

Agreed.

[pharmerdave]

The ENF for this project has been formally submitted to the office of environmental affairs.
Some interesting information regarding this 2.2 billion dollar project:

Total of five buildings ranging in height from 60 to 710 feet.

Total of 3.8 million sf of mixed use space.

2,000 parking spaces, the majority of which will be in above ground parking structures wrapped in retail and office space.

Net loss of only 300 parking spaces.

Transfer of 18,500 sf of excess sidewalk space from the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority to the City of Boston, who will then sell to developer.

Proposal includes air right component over NSTAR substation as well as reconstructing Police station A-1.

Parcel 1, the area east of Congress Street, will include two new buildings, totaling 400,000 square feet. The
buildings will be approximately 125 feet and 175 feet tall. While primarily residential, these buildings will also
house the Haymarket MBTA bus station and subway entrances, ground floor retail, and offices on lower floors. The
upper floors will be residential. One 20,000 square-foot level of underground parking for approximately 50 vehicles
is proposed for Parcel 1.
Three new interconnected buildings are proposed to be built on Parcel 2, the area west of Congress Street and east
of Bowker Street. At the base of Parcel 2 will be a five-story podium structure housing an aboveground parking
garage. The garage will be wrapped with a mix of retail, hotel, and office uses that will mask the parking garage
from view from all major streets. An approximately 555-foot Class A office tower and a 240-foot hotel will be built
on cup of the podium structure. At this preliminary stage, the hotel is estimated to have approximately 460 rooms.
The aboveground parking garage at the center of the podium building will accommodate approximately
181,000 square feet of aboveground parking (approximately 450 spaces).
An approximately 710-foot, Class A office tower is proposed for Parcel 3, the westernmost portion of the proposed
project, in order to concentrate density as far away from the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway as possible (see
Attachment 2h). Parcel 3 will provide approximately 269,000 square feet of aboveground parking on six levels, for
approximately 700 spaces. The tower will have retail on the ground floor and also house the District A-1 Police
Station which will occupy space on one or more of the lower floors. The remainder of the tower will be office
space.
A 300,000 square-foot underground parking garage on Parcels 2 and 3 will provide approximately 800 additional
parking spaces on two levels.
Attachment 2a shows a proposed site plan; 2b a plan of the podium level; and 2c a plan of a typical tower level.
Attachments 2d, 2e, 2f, and 2g depict computer renderings of the proposed project, including views that compare
existing with proposed conditions. Please note that the depiction of the buildings represents just the master planning
to date only. It should be used only as a means of studying the proposed preliminary massing and concepts for the
development and not be interpreted as depicting the details of the proposed buildings' architectural design.

http://www.mass.gov/envir/mepa/pdffiles/enfs/032509em/14383.pdf

[Ron Newman]

What is 'excess sidewalk space' and where is it?

[statler]

^^Yeah, since when is the Turnpike Auth. so flush with cash that they can just give away valuable real estate? They must be getting something out of this deal.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Sounds great. Now where does the financing come from?

[PaulC]

check figure 2.1
http://www.demolishthegarage.com/pdf/GCGR_PNF.pdf

[jass]

You know, I like this angle

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8607.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8609.jpg

But worst crossing ever
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8608.jpg


And whats this?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8606.jpg

[czsz]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8608.jpg

Holy GreenwayFAIL.

[statler]

And whats this?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8606.jpg

Boston's most perfect location for a flatiron building.

[Ron Newman]

That used to be a Mobil gas station. I didn't realize it had closed.

[JohnAKeith]

Mobil gas station closed in 2008, according to this article:

Market Woes Prevent Bulfinch Developer From Buying Station
By Thomas Grillo, Banker & Tradesman, August 4, 2008

The shuttering of the Mobil Station near Boston City Hall could boost one developer?s holdings in the Bulfinch Triangle. But with the financial markets in turmoil, the company is in no rush to buy.

Last month, Exxon Mobil Corp. said it is getting out of the U.S. retail gasoline market.

The world?s largest publicly-traded oil company is selling its 820 gas stations. Included in the number of stations already closed is 150-158 Friend St., across the street from the Government Center Garage.

Rosalind E. Gorin, president of HN Gorin, a real estate investment and development company that owns four parking lots on Friend Street totaling about 15,000 square feet of space, said she is not negotiating with Mobil to buy the small property. But Gorin said her firm is the logical buyer.

?I don?t know who else Mobil would sell it to since it can?t be developed on its own because it?s too small,? Gorin said. ?We are the only potential buyer, but we?re not in a hurry. We don?t think this is a great time to start a new project.?

Still, Gorin said she plans to build a 10-story office building on the parcels her firm owns, possibly including the triangular Mobil site when the financial markets improve.

?Everyone is very cautious now, there?s not much liquidity around and the economy is being squeezed,? she said. ?As a result, lenders are very cautious. You can?t get good financing for speculative development right now. If you could get financed, you?ll pay a premium and put much more equity than you would under normal circumstances.?

In Boston, projects including the South Station tower, Mayor Thomas M. Menino?s 1,000-foot skyscraper in Winthrop Square and Columbus Center are struggling to get financed.

Gorin declined to put a start date for the office building project.

?The financing market is one of the keys to the development business,? she said. ?I don?t know when this will turn around. If you can tell me when the Federal Reserve will act in a way that will provide liquidity to our economy, I?ll tell you when people will build again, because the two are linked.?

http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=2338&highlight=mobil+gas+station&page=2

[ablarc]

?The financing market is one of the keys to the development business,? she [Rosalind E. Gorin] said. ?I don?t know when this will turn around. If you can tell me when the Federal Reserve will act in a way that will provide liquidity to our economy, I?ll tell you when people will build again, because the two are linked.?
She sounds like she wants you to believe she knows what the Fed should do. So how come she's not saying?

[Ron Newman]

But worst crossing ever

That's not a crosswalk. It's some sort of marking for the buses to follow when the leave the Haymarket busway.

The ramp parcel in the background is supposed to become a YMCA, but I haven't heard any recent updates on that project.

[jass]

That's not a crosswalk. It's some sort of marking for the buses to follow when the leave the Haymarket busway.
.

No ron, thats a crosswalk, the buses exit further on. Note the picture above it, it was taken from the same exact spot.

[kz1000ps]

That's a crosswalk?? I always assumed it was ornamental.

[jass]

That's a crosswalk?? I always assumed it was ornamental.

Well yes, its mostly ornamental, but it also implies a crosswalk. If you see it from further back its a continuous line, and the median even has an open space to walk through.

[found5dollar]

i dont think it can be officially a crosswalk. don't all new cross walks need to have the tactile warning bumbs before they begin on each side of the street?

[PaulC]

Look at the 'sidewalk' on the other side. Isn't corrugated to discourage people from walking there?

[jass]

i dont think it can be officially a crosswalk. don't all new cross walks need to have the tactile warning bumbs before they begin on each side of the street?

Yeah they do, although theres no incline either.

[cden4]

That's not a crosswalk. It's some sort of decorative inlay. If it was a crosswalk, there would be curb cuts and an actual sidewalk on the other side.

[ledjes]

This enigmatic inlay leads nowhere...it forms a circle. Years ago there was a circular structure located there. My guess is that this is some sort of cryptic homage to that structure.

I'm sure someone more clever than I can dig up a photo of it and post it for all of us.

[Ron Newman]

I took a walk around there just today and also saw the circle. Could it be an homage to the large rotary that Haymarket Square once was?

[PaulC]

I plan on attending, anyone else going?

The BRA is hosting a series of public meetings. The next meeting will be:

Impact Advisory Group (IAG) Meeting #3
Thursday, April 22 6:00 pm
Boston City Hall, BRA Board Room, Room 900.
Note that the Plaza entrance to City Hall is locked after hours; to enter, please use the Congress Street entrance.

I'm not sure if the IAG #2 info had been posted before:
http://www.demolishthegarage.com/pdf/presentations/pres_2009_04_02.pdf

[Jane Jetson]

File this under SSDD:

N. End group slams plan for 2 towers

By Thomas Grillo | Wednesday, April 22, 2009 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Real Estate
Fearing a second Big Dig, a neighborhood group opposes plans for a $2.3 billion mega-office development in Government Center.

In a letter to the Boston Redevelopment Authority, the North End-Waterfront Residents? Association said it opposes the Raymond Property Co.?s plan for a 3 million-square-foot development next to the John F. Kennedy building.

?The North End only recently gained relief from the construction impacts of the Central Artery project, which lasted more than 20 years,? said the letter.

The 300-member group also said the project?s height and density are out of scale.

Raymond hopes to demolish the Government Center Garage and replace it with two skyscrapers - 42 and 52 stories tall. The proposed complex would include a hotel, condominiums and retailers.

The North End group is not the only organization lining up against the project. The Impact Advisory Group, a panel appointed by Mayor Thomas M. Menino to advise City Hall on the project, has raised questions about the height of the towers.

Stephen G. Kasnet, Raymond?s chief executive, declined comment. But a BRA spokeswoman said the letter was one of four dozen that will be considered by the city.

[mdd]

All i see is WAAAAAAHHHH WAAAAAAHHHH WAAAAAAHHHH

[kmp1284]

Maybe I'll go, is it Thursday or the 22nd(today) though?

[mdd]

I really like the Cook & Fox design, too bad that it will never get built in this city.

[TheRifleman]

I really like the Cook & Fox design, too bad that it will never get built in this city.


If this city doesn't start building something we wont have anymore jobs in constuction so the UNIONS will be screwed.

If they have the money let them build it.

[Patriots_1228]

That's funny..I could have sworn this project was in the government center and not the north end....

[PaulC]

I sent them an email and it is tonight the 22nd.

Do you think the merchants in the North end will be against this project with all those potential lunch customers?

[pelhamhall]

Working in public relations, there is something very telling about the BRA spokesperson's comment:

"This is one of four dozens letters that will be considered"

The BRA is moving towards supporting this project.

And they should - it's on a transportation hub, and nowhere near any residential neighborhoods. At all.

The Boss has been quiet lately on real estate, huh? Wait until after he is re-installed, we should see some progress - it's an election year. Don't be surprised if the BRA drags its feet on everything so Boss Menino doesn't have to make a stand one way or the other.

[vanshnookenraggen]

The BRA is moving towards supporting this project.



Well duh, they know a golden opportunity when they see it and they know NIMBYs when they hear them.

[BostonSkyGuy]

"Fearing a second Big Dig, a neighborhood group opposes plans for a $2.3 billion mega-office development in Government Center."

This won't be the next Big Dig for a very simple reason: The City won't have anything to do with the actual construction of the project.

How come any building over 6 stories in this city is "out of scale". To me out of all the taller buildings (40+ stories) that have been proposed lately, this seems to be the most logical for height and density.

As for the BRA moving to support the project, I think they almost HAVE TO. It's a no-brainer. Everyone who's ever seen the Gov't Center Garage thinks it's an unappealing waste of space. Looking over the PDF, I love this project and what it will add to this part of the city.

[cden4]

Everyone here who supports this project should absolutely write to the BRA and tell them. They probably are used to mostly getting letters of opposition, so letters of support I would guess really do mean a lot.

[BostonSkyGuy]

Everyone here who supports this project should absolutely write to the BRA and tell them. They probably are used to mostly getting letters of opposition, so letters of support I would guess really do mean a lot.

What's the e-mail address to write to them? I went to their website and they have like 1,000 people listed. What's the e-mail address that will get the most attention from letters like this?

[Beton Brut]

I'm gonna try and get there for part of this. Anyone else?

[Jane Jetson]

What's the e-mail address to write to them? I went to their website and they have like 1,000 people listed. What's the e-mail address that will get the most attention from letters like this?

Kristin.Kara.bra@cityofboston.gov

[PaulC]

If any one is going don't forget it's at city hall not the garage

[Beton Brut]

Look for me, Paul -- I'll hang in the back if I can get in the room at all. I'll bet this'll be mobbed.

[Beton Brut]

PaulC, Shirley Kressel, and I were there last night. There was a predictably dispiriting consensus on the part of the community panelists about height, shadows, density, traffic, construction mitigation, and so on...

I made a few comments toward the end of the meeting that some on the panel may have found "controversial."

[type001]

Thanks. Wrote a letter and encourage everyone else here to do so as well. If we're going to complain about things let's do what little we can to help.

I just sent my letter. If anyone would like to see what I wrote, please send me an email.

[bosma]

"Fearing a second Big Dig, a neighborhood group opposes plans for a $2.3 billion mega-office development in Government Center."

This won't be the next Big Dig for a very simple reason: The City won't have anything to do with the actual construction of the project.


I understand the communities concern about the neighborhood being underconstruction but once approved the construction will go VERY quickly, the owner needs to open and make $$. Look how quick Russia Wharf is going up, and consider that project is preserving and renovating the historic building around the base of the new tower.

I just want to throw this out there but what if you required the developer to build a tunnell underneath their project (as this will be building underneath anyway) for possible future bus/train North/South Railink? Sell City Hall have developer do the same and your almost halfway there!!!!!!!!!!

[czsz]

Russia Wharf has been going on forever; it's only now that the tower portion is rising from the preserved facades. And one could easily raise the counterexample of Filene's.

The neighbors may be wrongheaded in some respects, but they have some appreciation for how long the construction process can take.

[jass]

Russia Wharf has been going on forever; it's only now that the tower portion is rising from the preserved facades. And one could easily raise the counterexample of Filene's.

.


Agreed. if we're using the russia wharf timeline, then filenes is ahead of schedule

[BostonSkyGuy]

On May 27th which is their next meeting, they'll be putting their their model and variations into the BRA city scale model. Sort of interesting. Got it in an e-mail from one of the people associated with the project.

[PaulC]

PaulC, Shirley Kressel, and I were there last night. There was a predictably dispiriting consensus on the part of the community panelists about height, shadows, density, traffic, construction mitigation, and so on...

I made a few comments toward the end of the meeting that some on the panel may have found "controversial."

Was Shirley the one who asked to see what the project would look like if they weren't breaking the law.

[type001]

Hmmmm, that's an interesting statement. What did that person mean exactly?

Also, could people who attended possibly give some more in-depth details? For example, despite the usual flood of selfish responses and protests, did it actually seem as if Raymond will be going through with the master plan?

[Beton Brut]

Was Shirley the one who asked to see what the project would look like if they weren't breaking the law.

Indeed. Briv, itchy, CommuterGuy and I met her during the SC&L debacle. Shirley's really interesting and astonishingly knowledgeable about the BRA's misdeeds. She and I agree on more than we disagree on. I'll introduce you at the next meeting if you like.

The context for her question was that the existing building envelope represents what Raymond can "legally" construct on the site. There are three processes (Planned Development Area, Zoning Variance, and Urban Renewal Project) that could allow Raymond to go forward as proposed.

Raymond and his team are correct to refer to this as a "proposal" rather than a "plan."

Also, could people who attended possibly give some more in-depth details?

The meeting was sponsored by the BRA and moderated by Kristin Kara (Kristin.Kara.bra@cityofboston.gov).

The Panel consisted of members from community groups from the North End, Beacon Hill, and the West End.

After Raymond's presentation, each panelist spoke for a few moments, addressing concerns about height, shadows, density, traffic, construction mitigation, and so on. There is recognition that removing the garage and replacing it with a mix of uses can benefit the abutting communities.

Kristin Kara opened the floor to the audience. In general, the comments from the floor were consistent with the concerns of the panelists. A comment from one of the panelists is a good summation: "Is the medicine worse than the disease?"

Then I got to speak. I identified myself as an East Boston resident with no stake in the proposal other than that of any other Boston taxpayer. I endorsed Raymond's efforts to reach out proactively, and praised his efforts to think big at this location.

Than I turned to the panel. I debunked some of their assumptions that smaller buildings reducing wind, and lightly chastised a woman from the North End who asserted that the project offers "no value" to her neighborhood. Taxes will be collected on every square foot of this proposed development; those taxes fund schools, police, fire, EMS, and other city services. Isn't that a value?

I closed with this thought: I live less than a half-mile from the end of two active runways. I choose to live there, recognizing that I often see, hear, and smell one of America's busiest airports. Is it unreasonable to suggest that people who choose to live in urban neighborhoods close to downtown may need to share the city with a few tall buildings, and those who live and work in them?

I wonder if a rash of logic will break out...

[kennedy]

Way to go, did the panelists and/or the presenters respond? Not to bug you about keeping a box score or anything...haha.

[PaulC]

On May 27th which is their next meeting, they'll be putting their their model and variations into the BRA city scale model. Sort of interesting. Got it in an e-mail from one of the people associated with the project.

One member of the AIG commented on how great the developers team has been at meeting thier request. Someone asked of they could see the development model in relation to the cities the BRA's city model.

Only 8 of the 12 IAG members where there. When I walked into the room and saw the IAG I thought it was a casting call for a remake of the movie Cocoon(before the pods). I don't think anyone was under 60.

All but one seemed to like the project but all had reservations. Shadows, traffic and parking were the big concerns. Traffic will be the next meeting. More graphics will be produced for the next meeting including street names, a north arrow added to the view and shadow studies. It surprised me that people on a IAG could not pick out the major streets on an satellite photo. The developer even had stickers for people to place on a map so they can then develop more views. Surprisingly people were worried about the potential loss of parking. There was also a little frustration that there are two potential plans and they are seeing only the impact of one, although it's the bigger of the two.

One audience asked about wind and Benton Brut pointed out that this is an area of expertise for Cook+Fox.

There were a few politician, their aids or candidates there. I think is was mayoral candidate McCrea who asked if they would seek public funds and they answer was no. He also asked what their profit would be and they wouldn't answer. Does this clown ask the same question when he goes into a store or restaurant? If this is McCrea I'm not impressed.

The one IAG member against this project is the guy from Beacon Hill. He doesn't*want any construction so he is against the project.

Impact Advisory Group (IAG) Meeting #4
Topics: Height and Massing; MBTA Coordination
Wednesday, May 27, 6:00 pm
Boston City Hall, BRA Board Room, Room 900.
Note that the Plaza entrance to City Hall is locked after hours; to enter, please use the Congress Street entrance.

April 22, 2009 - Impact Advisory Group Meeting #3 PRESENTAION
http://www.demolishthegarage.com/pdf/presentations/pres_2009_04_22.pdf

[yankeeclipper]

The New Green Monster
Cook + Fox-designed megaproject could mend a tear in Boston's urban fabric


A major Boston developer has proposed replacing one of Boston?s biggest eyesores with one of the largest, greenest developments in city history. The Raymond Property Company has filed a proposal with the city for One Congress Street, a four-million-square-foot office, residential, and retail development. The project would redefine the skyline, with two towers reaching 42 and 52 stories that rise from a series of smaller buildings intended to mask their scale. The developer selected Cook + Fox as designer from a shortlist of five notable firms.

If realized, One Congress will replace the Government Center Garage, a 150-foot-tall, two-football-field-long concrete bunker that spans Congress Street and slices the Haymarket area in two. Like its Brutalist neighbor City Hall, the garage was designed by Kallmann, McKinnell & Knowles.


We have been working with the community for months and are excited to kick off the official public review process,? said company chairman Ted Raymond. ?In the estimation of most people, the garage has outlived its appeal and today serves chiefly as an eyesore, a Berlin Wall that separates the Bulfinch Triangle and the West End from the North End and downtown.?

Rebecca Mattson, Raymond?s chief operating officer, said that choosing a team of world-class architects was of paramount importance. ?Boston doesn?t build that often, and Boston doesn?t build big that often, so we really wanted this to be something special.? Raymond?s selection process for the invited competition, initiated in December, was very direct: two firms were chosen for their high-rise expertise?SOM and Gensler?two for their iconic status?Foster + Partner and the Office for Metropolitan Architecture?and one for its ?cutting-edge work??Cook + Fox, whose Platinum LEED-seeking One Bryant Park Raymond especially admired.

Raymond has been developing in and around the neighborhood surrounding the garage for years, and so the developer spent months meeting with the community, seeking both public input and public favor. This led to a planning study with local firm Chan Krieger Sieniewicz that set rather strict guidelines for the five firms: the two towers, rising from a human-scale plinth, plus two smaller towers across Congress Street on scale with the plinth. Still, the results varied greatly, from Gensler's cellular volumes to OMA?s sardonically conventional boxes. ?We wanted someone who could do green, iconic, and buildable,? Mattson said. ?The question is, who can do those three best?" The answer proved to be Cook + Fox.

Principal Rick Cook said his firm's design casts an attentive eye toward its surroundings. The strands of each tower are arranged to avoid casting shadows to the Rose Kennedy Greenway while the terra cotta cladding of the plinths, which are filled with active retail and civic uses, are gestures to the brick vocabulary of the city, as well as home to some 2,000 mandatory parking spaces.

One side of the 52-story tower is cut exactly perpendicular to the sun for maximum photovoltaic penetration. "That's basically how the buildings were formed, by the environment," Cook said. The towers' undulating elevations also create varying plans from floor to floor, allowing for unique configurations in what are tentatively planned to be a pair of office towers, though one could be a hotel or apartment building, as the development climate will eventually dictate

Cook said that for him, the true appeal of the project was the way it would repair a longstanding rift in Boston's urban fabric. When the garage was completed in 1961, it was one of many barriers in the downtown landscape. Following the recent transformational success of the Big Dig, however, which buried the Central Artery and the elevated subway tracks, the garage is all that remains, looming over the neighborhood. "It's the last super-damaging artifact left from the downtown urban renewal of the 1970s," said Tim Love, a principal at UTILE, which is preparing a development study of the Greenway.

Raymond has set a tight deadline for the project. In January, the Environmental Protection Agency is set to move out of a two-story commercial addition that was built atop the garage in 1991, the garage's first vacancy in 20 years. Raymond has said that if it does not have most of its approvals in place, it will simply re-lease the space, since revenues from the parking spaces and office rents are considerable. (Raymond bought the garage in January 2007 for $243 million.)

Love said that, given the nature of Boston development, where every project is negotiated with the city on the basis of public benefit, it will be challenging but far from impossible for the project to get approved as proposed. ?It?s practically the perfect case study of Boston planning and development,? Love said. ?Basically, Raymond is asking, ?How much do you want this garage to go? What are you willing to give us to take it down?'"

The developer has a powerful ally on his side in the locals and civic groups who loath the garage. ?It draws the line on downtown, which is fine?unless you?re on the wrong side of the line,? said Bob O?Brien, executive director of the Downtown North Alliance, making clear where he and his beloved West End fall. "We've become terra incognita, the other side of the map." O'Brien, Love, and others said that in spite of the project's massive scale and scope, it has received generally favorable reviews from the public.

Assuming One Congress receives approval from the city, one thing the developer is not worried about is financing. Raymond has partnered with the Lewis Trust Group, a British real estate investment firm, and the National Electrical Benefit Fund, the pension fund of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, both of which have been thus far spared by the recession. ?It?s sheer dumb luck we picked them as partners, but thank God,? Mattson said.

Despite such the public and financial support, some politicians have objected, most notably Michael Flaherty, a city councilor running against four-term incumbent Mayor Thomas Menino. He has seized upon Raymond's proposal to include two adjacent parcels in the development, one occupied by a police station, which was recently refurbished for $5 million, and an NStar substation. Raymond conferred with both the city and NStar about its intentions, though no formal deals have been struck. Still, Flaherty has called it a sweetheart deal for the developer.

Politics aside, Peter Smith, principal of Global Urban Solutions and a co-chair of the Boston Society of Architect?s Urban Planning Committee, said that while much work remains to be done, he believes Raymond is headed in the right direction. ?They?ve got to work through it with all the stakeholders, dot all their ?i?s? and cross all their ?t?s?,? Smith said. ?But in that respect, they?re on the right track."

Matt Chaban

Photos can be seen here:
http://www.archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=3268

[tmac9wr]

Overall, I think this is a great article since it's one of the few articles out there that are pro-development. This is especially good news:

Assuming One Congress receives approval from the city, one thing the developer is not worried about is financing. Raymond has partnered with the Lewis Trust Group, a British real estate investment firm, and the National Electrical Benefit Fund, the pension fund of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, both of which have been thus far spared by the recession. ?It?s sheer dumb luck we picked them as partners, but thank God,? Mattson said.

I don't see how anyone can bring up any legitimate argument against this project now. This is a very ambitious project which will destroy one of the biggest eyesores in this city. It will add life to a developing area and it has financing in place! They gotta get some shovels into the ground, ASAP!

[kennedy]

I love hearing this positive articles, and it gets me so excited about this project. But really, I keep telling myself not to get too excited. This is Boston, remember, it's hardly likely that the beautiful design selected will be fully realized. But we can hope.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Looking at the sight plan again I fear for the smallest section of the new development, the part over the subway station, which is going to be surrounded by 6 lane highways on 2 sides and highway on/off ramps on the 3rd, not to mention the entrance/exit to the parking garage on the 4th side. It would go a long way to take out a lane or two for expanded sidewalks and bike lanes as well as making New Sudbury St two way.

[nova617]

Agreed, Kennedy. This is one of the few recent proposals in Boston that could at all be referred to as "iconic." The pairing of location and developer here is unique, and has the potential to anchor an entire new nexus of activity within the central city. Downtown NEEDS this, in my opinion. 33 Arch and the State Street Building don't quite do it for me ;).

[BostonSkyGuy]

Yeah, this is the type of project the Mayor should have thrown his "Tommy's Tower(s)" support behind as being "iconic" and bringing new energy to the city. You're replacing one of the ugliest structures in the city with Glass Towers that are actually aesthetically pleasing to most, opening up Congress St. and reconnecting the West End to Downtown. It accomplishes many things all while being a Green development which in and of itself is a "landmark" accomplishment. I just like that this type of project is being proposed in Boston because it's not just a building or two buildings, it's actually something that benefits the city and the area.

[found5dollar]

"Tim Love, a principal at UTILE, which is preparing a development study of the Greenway."

a development study?

Wha?

tell me more please.

[briv]

The Boston Herald says:


Panel: Government Center towers too tall

By Thomas Grillo | Wednesday, April 29,
2009

A Menino administration panel has raised questions about plans to replace the Government Center Garage with a pair of skyscrapers.

The Impact Advisory Group, a 12-member group appointed by the mayor to review a 3 million-square-foot proposal adjacent to the John F. Kennedy building, has told the Boston Redevelopment Authority that the project?s height and density is unacceptable.

Raymond Property Co. filed a $2.3 billion plan that called for demolishing the 11-story garage. In its place would stand two skyscrapers 42 and 52 stories tall.

But the proposal has faced harsh criticism over the height of the towers. Mayor Thomas M. Menino (http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?topic=Thomas+M.+Menino) has said he?s unsure that location is the right place for a building as tall as the Prudential tower.

In a letter to the BRA, the panel said that, while the idea of demolishing the garage has support, the group saw no evidence to justify the towers? size.
?They want to extend the Financial District to Government Center and we don?t think it?s appropriate,? said Mark Paul, a North End resident and panel member.

Stephen Kasnet, Raymond?s CEO, said the Impact Advisory Group has raised legitimate issues and he welcomes their views.

?We?re at the beginning of the process to bring forward a project that?s acceptable to all parties,? he said.

The BRA acknowledged there are a number of issues the city will address in the coming months. ?We realize that height and density is an issue with the community and that?s what this process is all about,? said BRA
spokeswoman Jessica Shumaker. ?We will address all these issues as we go on.?

Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view.bg?articleid=1168711 (http://news.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view.bg?articleid=1168711)


I try very hard to stay apolitical here, but as long as this city calls such an opportunistic, provincial, small-time, ass-clown as Menino its mayor, we'll never be the "world class" city he spouts off about. The man's sense of urbanisism was obviously developed while prowling those bustliing Readville streets of his youth.

[czsz]

Did these people do something to offend Menino? Was it the independent financing, meaning they didn't have much need to kiss his feet?

Yeah, this is the type of project the Mayor should have thrown his "Tommy's Tower(s)" support behind as being "iconic" and bringing new energy to the city.

I was going to say this was actually a kiss of death, but Menino giving ammunition to the NIMBY Huns might be worse.

[type001]

That's funny. I have never heard Menino say that the Hancock and Pru are too tall for their locations. I have faith that Raymond will say all the right political things to all the douche bags out there and they'll make it through. They can simply leave the garage standing, and I am sure they'll play that card when needed.

[Boston02124]

If I hear "Too Tall" one more time I going to start shooting!! Why is everything proposed in this city Too Tall! unless it's the mayors tower!

[type001]

^^^ No kidding. Where's John Wilkes Booth when you need him.

It angers me how the mayor can decide where a "tall" building should be built when he cleary did no research. He should have known that the FAA would not have allowed the initial TNP height before he announed to the media that he wants multiple submissions for the new tallest tower in Winthrop Sq. So the FAA throws it back in his face, and then he has the nerve to say that the GovCenter location is not an appropriate location. I hope that the unions especially are lined up to help fight this one.

[Bos77]

Indeed, about the only thing left in this city that is oversized, is the ego of hizzonah mayah menino.

[tobyjug]

Easy, boys. The IAG opinion is Menino's anchor to windward. Flats has been courting the nimby vote. Menino counters with this. Six months from now IAG will stand for "irritants already gone".

[Jane Jetson]

How did the Hancock ever get built???

And is 52 stories really a skyscraper? What's the average number, say for a regular city, not Boston?

[statler]

Hancock threatened to pull out of Massachusetts if they didn't get their way.

Now there is no one left to threaten to pull out. (Except maybe Fidelity or State Street, but neither seem to be in the market for a new headquarters)

[johnpaul5]

The builders should also threaten to abandon the project entirely if they don't build it as is. That should give Menino a kick in the butt.

[statler]

^^To which the Mayor would proclaim, "Rejoice, people of Boston! I have saved you from the evil shadows!"

Sure, we'd be stuck with the garage, but the devil you know...

[Justin7]

Kristin.Kara.bra@cityofboston.gov

Again, PLEASE write a short (or long if you'd prefer) email in favor of this project. NIMBYs are noisy but they are not exceptionally numerous. Twenty+ letters from aB members will make a difference. Take a few minutes out of your day.

[pelhamhall]

The Mayor race is going to be throw all the best laid plans to the wind. We'll see what happens this summer as the polling begins in earnest.

If the mayor feels support from the North End eroding, he'll pull the plug on this project. Do you think he cares about urban design? Sustainability? World-class architecture? Moving Boston forward? Reinvigorating the city through the urban street scape? Do you think he frets over things like the facade materials and the statement this project makes architecturally about Boston? Do you think he cares remotely about any of the things that we talk about on this forum?

It's an election year, he cares about one thing - getting elected.

[pelhamhall]

Oh, another thing, these politicians think it's so cool to have a Facebook page, so why not have us all comment, all the time, about the city there? He'll hear loud and clear, because right now it's not a forum that is being utilized by the other special interests in this city.

Go ahead and comment - politely - and it may even make a difference.

[statler]

The Mayor race is going to be throw all the best laid plans to the wind. We'll see what happens this summer as the polling begins in earnest.

Do you think anyone (the mayor, the other candidates, the voters) cares about urban design? Sustainability? World-class architecture? Moving Boston forward? Reinvigorating the city through the urban street scape? Do you think they fret over things like the facade materials and the statement this project makes architecturally about Boston? Do you think they cares remotely about any of the things that we talk about on this forum?

It's an election year, the candidates care about one thing - getting elected.

Fixed that for you.

[underground]

Looking at the sight plan again I fear for the smallest section of the new development, the part over the subway station, which is going to be surrounded by 6 lane highways on 2 sides and highway on/off ramps on the 3rd, not to mention the entrance/exit to the parking garage on the 4th side. It would go a long way to take out a lane or two for expanded sidewalks and bike lanes as well as making New Sudbury St two way.
The part of the Greenway it'll face is only the bussway, two lanes, the eventual YMCA, and two more lanes. When/If everything gets completed, the traffic on the Greenway side will be pretty minimal. Even as it is right now, not a lot of traffic goes southbound on the Greenway at that point. Norhtbound's a different story, but that'll be blocked by the YMCA (again, hopefully).

I think you're right on reducing Sudbury though. I'd make it unidirectional again, but cut down the number of lanes and add on street parking. Hell, I'm sure the cops would love the extra spots (the feds might have an issue with it though). New Chardon already has on street parking and huge sidewalks, so I'm not sure there are any options over there.

[nova617]

So which of Mark Paul's views will be threatened by the project? The charming view of the garage, or of City Hall? More obnoxious NIMBY children. Newsflash: in order to offset the cost of demolishing the garage and making the site suitable for construction, height is necessary. For most people, this is a simple concept. They claim there is widespread support for demolishing the garage; then there must also be widespread support for its financially-feasible replacement. Unless, of course, the NIMBYS of the North and West Ends (how exactly do West End NIMBYS have a problem with this again?) betray themselves as the true Bostonians that they are: absolutely terrified of change.

[GW2500]

Like the man a few posts prior said. Write an email to that Lady, I've written two this last month.

[type001]

Again, PLEASE write a short (or long if you'd prefer) email in favor of this project. NIMBYs are noisy but they are not exceptionally numerous. Twenty+ letters from aB members will make a difference. Take a few minutes out of your day.

Please listen to Justin7 here. I should have mentioned this, but I actually got a personal detailed response from Kristin after submitting my letter. It will get read, and it will make a difference.

[Ron Newman]

The city government does have a legitimate interest in determining the size of a development that is currently proposed to include city-owned (and utility-owned) land. The developer might be well-advised to phase his project so that the first part of it is built entirely on his own land.

[pelhamhall]

Raymond Properties built a condo tower (Trinity) right next to Boston Public Library overlooking Copley Square, in spite of the Back Bay mafia/community group opposition.

Raymond Properties got the monstrous, blockish Flagship Wharf built in spite of the uber-sensitive Navy Yard/Charlestown mafia/community group opposition.

Ted Raymond donates the right amount of money to the right people at the right time.

Ted Raymond doesn't piss the mayor off, in fact, he acts like he respects and supports the mayor. Once this little election thing is out of the way, Ted Raymond will get two towers built here, each about 10 stories shorter than what is now proposed. As was probably decided a year ago. The BRA highlight support or opposition as it sees fit.

If Chiafaro owned this garage he wouldn't even be allowed to demolish it, let alone propose a replacement. But Ted owns it, so he gets shiny new towers.

And he should, it's a slam-dunk, incredible, wonderful proposal from top-notch, world-class developers. It's almost a shame that they would be slandered by being considered just a Menino Stooge developer, but that's how the game is played.

[Ron Newman]

And in all that bickering, nobody supported or attacked or even discussed my suggestion that the developer would initially be better off proposing to build only on his own land.

[tobyjug]

Ron, there is likely no need for him to build only on his own land when he can leverage the property of others.

Plus, I think there is another factor here. It has oft been observed that the Mayor is, uh, sensitive to his legacy. I doubt his wife will allow him another term beyond the next, so the Mayor has the 4 years to make his mark without regard to public opinion. He just needs to clear this last hurdle.

If "Tommy's Tower" was a manifestation of the Mayor's desire to leave his signature on the skyline, why on earth (after November) would he cut one inch off something like this project? He won't. And if the market ever picks up enough for some "soaring" ambitions to be financed, you might actually see some interesting things. (But not Donny's.)

[Ron Newman]

I said this only because the presence of a newly renovated police station on the city-owned parcel presents an unnecessary stumbling block to the development. If he can build a quality development on his own land, and people like the result, the city will be more likely to sell him that parcel for a second phase.

[Beton Brut]

And in all that bickering, nobody supported or attacked or even discussed my suggestion that the developer would initially be better off proposing to build only on his own land.

The concept of phasing this project is explained in some detail on the developer's site (http://www.demolishthegarage.com/index.htm), and in their materials. Check out the .pdfs of the presentations on this page (http://www.demolishthegarage.com/meetings.htm). Their slide deck (used for meetings) show a phased approach to this project.

If he can build a quality development on his own land, and people like the result, the city will be more likely to sell him that parcel for a second phase.

Good point. But also consider, a member of the IAG (present at the meeting PaulC and I attended last week) suggested that Raymond "include" the YMCA site in his plan, as it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Y cannot afford to develop the site because of the cost associated with building on a ramp parcel. The problem is, the site was given to the Y as the result of legislation.

What urban residents need to understand is that there will be trade-offs in any large scale development project. The developer can only afford to cough up so much tribute to the impacted communities. Raymond can build a school (if the City deems it necessary); Raymond should be required to replace the police station and NStar substation if they are displaced/destroyed as a result of his project.

[tmac9wr]

Just sent off my letter...I'll let you guys know if I hear back.

[crash575]

I also sent a quick letter and will let you all know her response.

[KentXie]

I sent a letter. I will post the response as soon as I get it.

[TheRifleman]

I think I've been had.

TheRifleman has a new perspective about life. And also alot more respect for board members.

BE HAPPY EVERYBODY. I actually thought FAN PIER development is looking great from my office view.

[PaulC]

anyone going?

Please be advised that there will be a Government Center Garage Redevelopment Project Impact Advisory Group (?IAG?) Working Session Meeting on Wednesday, May 27, 6:00 PM - 7:30 PM, at the Boston Redevelopment Authority, 9th Floor of City Hall, BRA Board Room (Please note that after 5:30PM, you can only enter/exit City Hall from Congress Street).

Agenda:
? The discussion will focus on the MBTA transit system?s capacity.
? A portion of the meeting will be held in the BRA?s model room in order to view a model of the Proposed Project, which will be placed in the BRA?s model of the City.

All members of the community and media are welcome to attend IAG Meetings.


If you have never seen the model of the city, it's worth it just for that.

[kennedy]

They actually have a scale model of the city? That's awesome.

Although, hopefully they'll copy SF and make a digital model...

[vanshnookenraggen]

They actually have a scale model of the city? That's awesome.

I've only seen it from outside the room but it's pretty sweet. It is just of downtown though, and the Back Bay and SBW... you know, the only parts of the city that matter.

[BostonSkyGuy]

Can't make it there tomorrow, but hopefully someone from here does and will ninja-snap some pics with their phone and post them.

[SeamusMcFly]

They actually have a scale model of the city? That's awesome.

Although, hopefully they'll copy SF and make a digital model...

The BRA website has digital city models. In autocad and a couple 3D platforms as well I believe. Check it out. I know I downloaded them all.

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/maps/maps.asp

[tmac9wr]

They actually have a scale model of the city? That's awesome.

It really is awesome. When the TNP dream was still in full-effect I went there and checked out the model. It looked great. When I was there they had a model with SST and TNP in the downtown skyline (at least I think it did, maybe I was dreaming again), and it looked awesome. If that skyline had become reality, Boston would have been one of the top skylines in the country.

You should definitely go check it out whenever you get the chance.

Is anyone making it to the meeting tonight? I would try to make it, but I'm in the final stretch of studying for the CFA Exam on June 6th, and I'm also recording the Champions League final haha.

[Beton Brut]

I'm gonna to try be there, but will likely be late.

I wonder who will be "representing" the T. Anyone have insights on this?

[Boston02124]

I've only seen it from outside the room but it's pretty sweet. It is just of downtown though, and the Back Bay and SBW... you know, the only parts of the city that matter.
I know I've posted this before! http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/304.jpg

[PaulC]

New buildings are in a lighter shade.

[Beton Brut]

Planning on arriving close to 6PM. Who else is in?

[vanshnookenraggen]

Looking at the city from that angle you can see how the new North End parks act as a gateway into the rest of the city. Having the new towers behind them will just add to the experience walking down Hanover St.

[Beton Brut]

PaulC, Shirley, and I are in the house. Anyone else? Sorry, no pix from the map room. NB: they used massing models for the presentation, not the Cook & Fox designs. T discussion under way.

[kennedy]

Fan Pier looks good, if they ever actually build all of that. Is that supposed to be TNP in the middle, and SST off to the left a little bit?

[mikem978]

^ Does anyone know what building is WAY in the back of that picture to the right of the Pru? Looks like the old SST but not sure.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Wow, I think that is the old SST. It isn't Boylston Sq I don't think. I'm sure they have tons of old models in their collection.

[Boston02124]

It is the old SST, funny we had the same exact conversation the last time I posted this pix! I think on the TNP tower thread,about a year ago.

[PaulC]

funny, no mention of this at the meeting:
RA says high-rise project should include a school
May 27, 2009 07:51 PMEmail| Comments (0)| Text size ? +
Boston officials have directed the company that proposes to redevelop the hulking Government Center garage as a pair of skyscrapers to study building a K-8 school as part of the $2.2 billion project.

In an initial response to the proposal, the Boston Redevelopment Authority told Raymond Property Co. to consider devoting up to 97,000 square feet to a school.

BRA officials also asked Raymond to consider design changes to differentiate the proposed office towers, which would be 42 and 52 stories tall.

The property straddles Congress Street along the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway.

The development would also include residences, a hotel, and stores.

The BRA?s response indicated Raymond would have to build a new police station and relocate social service agencies to win approval to build part of the project on city-owned land. Under current plans, Raymond wants to build the larger tower on city property.

Raymond Property Co.?s statement called the project an opportunity ??to take down this eyesore and build a great new addition to the area.??

Thorough review and community input ??will only serve to strengthen our proposal,?? the company said.
(By Casey Ross, Globe staff)
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/05/bra_says_highri.html

[vanshnookenraggen]

In an initial response to the proposal, the Boston Redevelopment Authority told Raymond Property Co. to consider devoting up to 97,000 square feet to a school.
BRA officials also asked Raymond to consider design changes to differentiate the proposed office towers, which would be 42 and 52 stories tall.

I think those are both reasonable requests. I like the designs but I don't think they need to be so similar. Plus we all know they are going to be redesigned (read: value engineered) anyway so why not change it up.

[kennedy]

How do we know they're going to be redesigned? This was one of the projects I was hopeful for a quality design from.

As for the city, a police station, social service offices, and a 97,000 sq. ft. school? Isn't that a tiny bit much?

[KentXie]

Well the police station will be demolished to make way for this project so asking for two additional things isn't too much.

[vanshnookenraggen]

How do we know they're going to be redesigned?

Well the design we've seen is only the first rendering. Every building goes through redesigns whether total re-dos or simple material changes. You don't build a building in a vacuum; things change all the time that require new designs.

That isn't to say that the buildings will be RADICALLY redesigned.

[PaulC]

boston herald checks in:
Garage plan needs work

City asks for smaller project, new school

By Thomas Grillo
Thursday, May 28, 2009 - Updated 10h ago

E-mail Print (5) Comments Text size Share Buzz up!
The city wants the proposed $2.3 billion redevelopment of the Government Center Garage to be smaller and to include an elementary school.

?That?s very exciting news,? said Chiara Rhouate, a West End parent of two school-age children. ?The school won?t be built in time for our children, but a neighborhood school is an important option for families who want to stay in Boston rather than move to the suburbs.?

Rhouate and the Coalition for Public Education, a group of 165 parents from the downtown neighborhoods, have met with Mayor Thomas Menino to lobby for an elementary school at the site.


In a 47-page finding by the Boston Redevelopment Authority, the agency recommends that Raymond Property Co. resubmit plans for the mixed-use project with inclusion of a K-8 school on- or off-site.

Earlier this year, Raymond filed plans to replace the 11-story garage with 42- and 52-story towers as well as a hotel, stores, restaurants and smaller residential buildings. During a series of community meetings, parents called upon the developer to build a school as part a community benefits package.

Steven Kasnet, Raymond?s chief executive, repeatedly told the crowd that he was waiting for guidance from the BRA on how to proceed.

The proposal for the 4-acre site has been controversial from the start. West End, Beacon Hill and North End residents have said the project is too massive, the towers are too tall and the MBTA cannot handle an influx of thousands of additional office workers.

Last month, the Impact Advisory Group, a 12-member panel appointed by Menino to review the 3 million-square-foot proposal adjacent to the John F. Kennedy building, said the project?s height and density are unacceptable.

The BRA yesterday called on Raymond to reduce the project?s size but did not specify how many stories would be acceptable to the city.

Kasnet declined comment.
http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view/2009_05_28_City_asks_for_smaller_project__new_scho ol:_Garage_plan_a_no-go/srvc=home&position=5

[KentXie]

boston herald checks in:

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view/2009_05_28_City_asks_for_smaller_project__new_scho ol:_Garage_plan_a_no-go/srvc=home&position=5

Who says the MBTA cannot handle the influx of office workers and on what basis? Did they do a simulation, or is it just typical NIMBY rabble? The location of this tower is located in the vicinity of multiple T stations, i.e. Haymarket, North Station, and Government Center, (you can count Bowdoin during the time it is opened). I'm pretty sure it can handle the influx of workers, not to mention many of these workers will arrive from cars. Of course, as of now, it seems from the article the community doesn't have much power to change the height or size of the project. The plan for a new school seem to have tamed them.

Also, how much do you want to bet the 12-panel group appointed by "don't piss me off" Menino went into the meeting, took a look at the rendering, declared it unacceptable in the first 5 minutes, and spent the rest of the meeting drinking coffee, eating donuts and snack, and talking about how to waste more of the taxpayer's money?

[Beton Brut]

Kent, I suggest (and PaulC will affirm) that the content of the article posted above does not reflect the reality of what was discussed at last night's meeting. To be frank, this is an example of irresponsible journalism, barely suitable for the polar regions of the blogosphere.

The presentation by Raymond's team showed an array of evidence (census data, used at the behest of the City and MBTA) that suggests that the T can more than manage the necessary commuter throughput to this site, with the expectation of a 10-year build-out for the entire project.

[lexicon506]

I hope Raymond issues an ultimatum on this one: "If you want the school, the social services, the new police station, then let me build to the proposed height. Otherwise, I'll scrap the entire project and leave the garage as is."

He should not compromise on this one...I have a feeling even the NIMBYs would rather have their school + some shadows than no school + the garage. Wouldn't that put Menino in an interesting position?

[KentXie]

I hope Raymond issues an ultimatum on this one: "If you want the school, the social services, the new police station, then let me build to the proposed height. Otherwise, I'll scrap the entire project and leave the garage as is."

He should not compromise on this one...I have a feeling even the NIMBYs would rather have their school + some shadows than no school + the garage. Wouldn't that put Menino in an interesting position?

+1

[tmac9wr]

I hope Raymond issues an ultimatum on this one: "If you want the school, the social services, the new police station, then let me build to the proposed height. Otherwise, I'll scrap the entire project and leave the garage as is."

He should not compromise on this one...I have a feeling even the NIMBYs would rather have their school + some shadows than no school + the garage. Wouldn't that put Menino in an interesting position?

When I read that article, I thought the same exact thing. I would think that Raymond has some leverage since they would be providing so many good things to the neighborhood.

[Ron Newman]

The leverage that the residents and city have is that Raymond wants to build on some property that belongs to the city rather than to Raymond itself.

[tmac9wr]

The leverage that the residents and city have is that Raymond wants to build on some property that belongs to the city rather than to Raymond itself.

That's very true, I forgot about that.

[SeamusMcFly]

I understand how that gives the city leverage, but how does that give the residents (who aren't actually residents of this non-existent neighborhood) leverage?

The replaced (and I'm sure bigger and better police station is a no brainer, Raymond has to do this if they want to build here. The NStar vault or whatever is another must inclusion. The school is a "It would be real nice if you could do this for our 300 kids" addition which I'm not against, but should never be a make or break to a piece of property that a developer basically owns (besides the other 2 items mentioned.) Otherwise that would be borderline extortion.

Also, funny how the T used to operate in a city with 200,000 more people living in it at one point. Many of them in the downtown/west end area. Probably even at a profit back then.

[tmac9wr]

Otherwise that would be borderline extortion.


Where have you been man? Extortion seems to be a specialty of NIMBYs. Whether it's more parks, schools or what-have-you. They're always trying to get their piece of the pie. In a way, NIMBYs trying to get height restrictions knocked down is a form of extortion. "If this project isn't XXX stories shorter than it already is, we will do everything in our power to stop it from being built". It's not always bad though. I'm all for more parks in the city and at times, cutting a buildings height down can be more appropriate (though this is a rarity in my opinion).

[GW2500]

"Also, funny how the T used to operate in a city with 200,000 more people living in it at one point. Many of them in the downtown/west end area. Probably even at a profit back then."

^^good point^^

The T can more than handel the increase, and if the demand is that strong then all they would really have to do is increase the frequency of trains. Nimbys make minor marginal issues into major concerns. If this were to get built nobody's lives would change at all.

Actually I think people should be interviewed in nieghborhoods where developments have recently been done, and ask them: "has your life changed b/c of this development?" I guarentee most would say "not really" or if anything think things actually improved a bit.

[Boston02124]

^ good point also^

[riffgo]

When the city contained 200,000 more people, the trains were shorter, and there weren't as many lines, so claiming that this project would put a burden on the public transportaion system seems very ingenuous.

[choo]

Maybe more people, will lead to more funding and better service. A weird concept, I know.

[Ron Newman]

Actually there were more transit lines than there are now.

[Padre Mike]

^The T as we know it did not exist until mid-century, when the many trolley, bus, subway, and rapid transit companies were consolidated and merged into the MTA. The history of it all is fascinating and can be found in an Arcadia publication on Boston transportation. Each company had its own routes, fares and equipment, not to mention horse barns before electricity came into play.

[vanshnookenraggen]

It's pretty sad to think that the T today handles way less traffic and way less lines than the original subway system yet is barely keeping it's head above water. Although it really isn't fair to compare today with 100 years ago.

[riffgo]

How does anyone figure there were more rapid transit lines? The Orange Line didn't go as far as Oak Grove, the Red Line ended at Harvard, and it's other terminus was in Ashmont without the option to go to Quincy or Braintree.

I realize there were more branches of the Green Line, but some of these defunct lines were replaced by bus service.....Also, there was no Riverside Line until 1959.

[briv]

From the Herald:


Foes hit mayor on request of Govt. Center project
School building battle
By Thomas Grillo | Wednesday, June 3, 2009
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/8dbceff34e_garage_06032009.jpg


Boston?s mayoral candidates are blasting Mayor Thomas M. Menino (http://www.bostonherald.com/search/?topic=Thomas+M.+Menino)?s request for a school to be part of a $2.3 billion Government Center Garage project.

?Our mayor says he?s for development and then puts a $45 million roadblock in the path of this project,? said City Councilor Michael Flaherty.

The Menino administration asked the Raymond Property Co. to add a 97,000-square-foot elementary school to its proposed 3-million-square-foot development near the John F. Kennedy Building. The Boston company hopes to demolish the 11-story garage and replace it with two skyscrapers.

But the candidates hoping to unseat Menino - Flaherty, Kevin McCrea of the South End and City Councilor Sam Yoon - were united in their criticism of Menino?s plan.

?I favor a school in the neighborhood, but it shouldn?t be the trade-off for allowing a developer to exceed the height limits by four times what the zoning code allows,? said McCrea.

Yoon said Chinatown is still waiting for a school promised as a community benefit in exchange for approval of Hayward Place. The $200 million project with housing and retail in Downtown Crossing has yet to be built.

?The public has no confidence in the BRA?s ability to advocate for communities and neighborhoods,? Yoon said.

Susan Ellsbree, a Boston Redevelopment Authority spokeswoman, said there is ?overwhelming support? for the developer to examine a feasibility of a school.

?The developer wants enormous zoning relief, and the community is entitled to benefits,? she said. ?We asked the developer to examine the possibility of a school. It does not mean there will be one.?

Raymond CEO Stephen Kasnet said the city has every right to require the firm to examine a school as a public benefit. ?But I can tell you that given the baseline costs, I don?t believe the project could afford to pay for a school,? he said. ?I have trouble picturing a school there, given all the safety needs.?

Late last year, a Boston Public Schools spokesman told the Herald that the city was not considering an elementary school at the project site. At the time, Christopher Horan said they have more available seats citywide than students.

But the idea has become a campaign issue and parents have met privately with Menino twice about the possibility of a new school.

Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1176440

[BarbaricManchurian]

LOL what hypocrites! They're for and against the project, and now for and against the school. Politicians...

[johnpaul5]

What IS the zoning limits in Boston? If this development exceeds zoning limits by 4x, then maybe the antiquated 19th century zoning code should be revamped.

[kennedy]

What IS the zoning limits in Boston? If this development exceeds zoning limits by 4x, then maybe the antiquated 19th century zoning code should be revamped.

What are...

And, fahcryinoutloud yes!

[briv]

The city's core is deliberately under-zoned so that virtually any development must be granted a variance or some other special designation on an ad hoc basis in order to be built. This allows the BRA (in other words, the Mayor) to cherry pick what pet developments go forward and kill what developments they don't like, for whatever reason.

[Riverworks]

I thought Flaherty was blasting the project because of the civic/government spaces being displaced? Now he's for it? Wasn't Yoon pro-development at one point, but anti development another time ... and now pro on this development? I've never seen a bigger bunch of flip-floppers in my life.

And what the hell is that rendering? That can't be Cook & Fox's winning design... Might as well put it in Kendall Sq.

[kennedy]

Yeah, they say Cook & Fox won, but every article I've seen uses this design, which looks like SOM's. Did they do a subtle redesign already? Did the Globe never bother to see the rest of the renderings? It'll be such a shame if the original Cook & Fox isn't built, or at least somethign similar. They were truly stunning, IMO.

[Bubbybu]

jesus they are just using the massing model in the article...it was released to the press before the actual competition as there are not too many photos of the Cook + Fox design floating around...

[kennedy]

My bad.

[KentXie]

How come I never heard of the school that Yoon is trying to build in Hayward Place? I thought Chinatown was trying to get a public library, not a school.

[Patriots_1228]

I don't think they are getting the idea that you have to allow big developments or else those developers can easily just look at a different city and your city will be left behind in the dust.

Here the chose is simple. You can get a project with basically the best of everything. Mixed use [thats off memory, may be incorrect] has a few different buildings, varied facades along the streets to enhance the bigcity feel. If these critics get their way as well as their prefered height, we are going to end up with a 5-10 story gigantic big ass landscraper with the same facade for half a mile, nothing interesting. We will basically replacing this sore in the middle of the city with an even greater sore.

Boston may never get a proposal for this spot as good as this current proposal. They need to learn to take what they get.

[riffgo]

And what we could get is pretty damned good. I really appreciate the renderings designed to show mere massing. There's a real street wall created here.

And, of course, we need to learn how to better work with developers to get what we want, not tar and feather them every time a new proposal is presented.

[BostonYoureMyHome]

I don't think they are getting the idea that you have to allow big developments or else those developers can easily just look at a different city and your city will be left behind in the dust.

Here the chose is simple. You can get a project with basically the best of everything. Mixed use [thats off memory, may be incorrect] has a few different buildings, varied facades along the streets to enhance the bigcity feel. If these critics get their way as well as their prefered height, we are going to end up with a 5-10 story gigantic big ass landscraper with the same facade for half a mile, nothing interesting. We will basically replacing this sore in the middle of the city with an even greater sore.

Boston may never get a proposal for this spot as good as this current proposal. They need to learn to take what they get.

And what we could get is pretty damned good. I really appreciate the renderings designed to show mere massing. There's a real street wall created here.

And, of course, we need to learn how to better work with developers to get what we want, not tar and feather them every time a new proposal is presented.


I could not agree with both of these posts more.

[PaulC]

Next meeting Impact Advisory Group (IAG) Meeting #5
Topic: Parking
Wednesday, June 24, 6:00 pm
Boston City Hall, BRA Board Room, Room 900.
Note that the Plaza entrance to City Hall is locked after hours; to enter, please use the Congress Street entrance.

May's presentation:
http://www.demolishthegarage.com/pdf/presentations/pres_2009_05_27.pdf

[Boston02124]

^ thanks! that presentation shows the garden develoment being larger than whats being proposed at gov. center

[Bubbybu]

I am so confused now as to what every single building is actually going to look like.....and also which is actually which....

[riffgo]

I don't think we know yet what exactly the proposed buildings will look like. If you look carefully at the perspective, you will note that the Garden Development buildings appear larger because they are at closer range.

[JohnAKeith]

Apparently, there was another community meeting last night, this one focused on Beacon Hill neighbors concerns. Anyone attend?

[ChitchIII]

I was there last night. I'll be able to write something about it in a few hours or so.

[type001]

I was there last night. I'll be able to write something about it in a few hours or so.

Any updates? We're all dying to know :-)

[eljusticiero67]

Does anyone know what are some of the updates on this project. I think this is the best upcoming project in Boston. Check out the towers that won:
http://www.cookplusfox.com/

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/GCG.jpg

[eljusticiero67]

Does anyone know what are some of the updates on this project. I think this is the best upcoming project in Boston. Check out the towers that won:
http://www.cookplusfox.com/

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/GCG.jpg

beautiful!

[statler]

Too iconic! :mad:

[vanshnookenraggen]

Does anyone know what are some of the updates on this project.

I'm assuming that the developers have been finalizing (or trying to) the funding (good luck!) and the architects have been working on more concrete plans.

Patience.

[eljusticiero67]

I'm assuming that the developers have been finalizing (or trying to) the funding (good luck!) and the architects have been working on more concrete plans.

Patience.

i think i read somewhere that funding has already been procured, as their funders had surprisingly not been hit hard by the recession. they are really just waiting on approval.
lets cross our fingers...

[eljusticiero67]

Too iconic! :mad:

i always thought that boston needed just one really iconic building (like seattle's space needle, or san fran's pyramid tower) to really light a fire in the collective asses of bostonians, and therefore spur greater development. hopefully this will do it.

ps- i was never really a fan of the kingston st proposal-- it wasnt that impressive to me... but i really dislike the fact they are demolishing yet another beautiful old building.

[Pierce]

more from the architect's website:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3474/3887159989_e712b12ea8_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2505/3887955940_c42b2c2c59_o.jpg

[Lurker]

Wait, castellated beams? What kind of structural engineer would possibly make that much design sense?

[ledjes]

AND...a raised floor air delivery system for the office tenants - how Euro!

[cden4]

OH NOEZ LOOK AT ALL THOSE SHADOEZ!!!

[Patriots_1228]

This is awesome!

so obviously it will never happen.

[czsz]

It will "happen," just with 15 fewer stories and far more boring architecture, completed by a cheaper firm.

Oh, and NIMBYs will point to the shadows it cast on the "sacred" public space at Government Center for the next 25 years as an example of what they don't want in their neighborhood.

[Lurker]

I'm waiting for the legions of apologist and "NOTHING IS EVER WRONG WITH DEAR MODERNIST HEROIC FATHERS OF ARCHITECTURE!" lemmings in academia to come out of the woodwork, explaining how the garage is of epic importance to preserving the cultural integrity of the modern movement and must be saved. Meanwhile the Shreve's building will become a parking lot, like the Gaiety Theater, for 20 years and only crickets will fill the silent void.

[palindrome]

man i'm going to be so depressed if this doesn't get built as is. It is so beautiful.

[JSic]

Please forgive my skepticism; I love this project and hope it gets built as rendered (including the height) but this IS Boston after all...

[JSic]

It will "happen," just with 15 fewer stories and far more boring architecture, completed by a cheaper firm.
Yup, I would be stunned if the height wasn't reduced. And when it is, the apologists will say Boston doesn't need tall buildings yadda yadda yadda..."

[ChitchIII]

I'll make a gentlemen?s bet on this one........ I'm betting this project goes through, starts soon (that's a relative term in the construction world) and is approved almost "as is" with regards to not only the developers criteria, but also the city's. This is the first and only project I've seen in Boston that has been so transparent in the planning process with the neighborhood and public. The developer held 6 public meeting in which they asked the city "what do you want" prior to the Article 80 review.

1) Funding is there?? Who do you think paid for the garage in 2007? It wasn?t Raymond. I?ll give you guys a hint??? I) The National Electrical Benefit Fund who ?with nearly $12 billion in net assets, NEBF ranks as the third largest Taft-Hartley pension fund in the U.S. This solid asset base delivers financial security for more than 80,000 retired beneficiaries today, and is a building block which will secure the retirement of future generations of workers in the electrical industry.? And???. II) The Lewis Trust Group who ?has worldwide interests in retailing, leisure, financial services, and property. Acorn Asset Management, Inc., the headquarter company for U.S. subsidiaries of the Lewis Trust Group, is an active investor in numerous U.S. markets including Boston. The firm is responsible for 85 companies that currently own or invest in joint-venture projects comprising 1.8 million square feet of office and retail developments, three large hotels, and 203 acres of undeveloped land in various stages of predevelopment.?

2) The City of Boston knows it?s got to build something soon so as to boost our local job market in this economy. Any the mayor is so angry about the Filene?s fiasco.

3) The developer is pushing for a Silver LEED certification, and we all know about the ?Green? push these days.

Lastly, please please please just remember that the rendering you see are ONLY MASSINGS. Give it time and let this project develop before you beat it down.

Ok, So who wants to take the other side????

[Suffolk 83]

Didnt Menino say Congress st proposal and the aquarium proposal were too tall and they would be studying the area around the greenway and that they would have to "drastically" change their plans? Or was that a nightmare I had?

[ablarc]

Menino is a fool, n'est-ce pas?

[Suffolk 83]

Agreed, but I think he said that and the fool does have alot of power

[kz1000ps]

It will "happen," just ... completed by a cheaper firm.

Anyone care to take bets on when Cook+Fox will back out and CBT takes over the job?

BTW, good to see you back, czsz.

[czsz]

Thanks! I'm not sure they'd back out so much as be pushed out when costs start to rise (which could be due to the planning process). God knows how many times it's happened here before.

Ok, So who wants to take the other side????

This is Boston. Enough said.

Seriously, there is always room for some political cock-up in this city. As much as there's a chance the mayah might be thrilled that construction may bring some jobs and make the city appear economically vital, Filene's may have made him cautious of the possibility that a stalled project may look worse than one that doesn't get off the ground.

Plus how much of the approvals process for this overlaps with the election campaign? The North Enders want their school, and the candidates are at pains to appear more "community-focused" than the next.

[eljusticiero67]

The following is the response i got from inquiring about the status of the project.

---------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your interest, we appreciate it.



We submitted a Project Notification Form with the BRA/City earlier this year, and received a Scoping Determination in response. Essentially, the Scoping Determination tells us everything we need to study in order to make our larger project filing, a Draft Project Impact Report (DPIR).



Over the summer, we?ve been working on refining the project design and studying all of the issues required to compile the DPIR, which is a long list, and we hope to file our DPIR near the end of the year. After it?s filed, there will be another round of public meetings and comment periods to review the more detailed DPIR materials, and we hope to gather consensus on a project that will work for the neighborhoods and the City.



A long process -- but one that we hope will be successful. Stay tuned on our website for more detail later this year. If you have any questions, feel free to check back in.



Best regards,

Senior Project Manager

[TheRifleman]

Why isn't the Harbor Garage project moving at the pace of the Congress project?

I thought both these projects were stalled due to the Greenway Study for shadows?

[pelhamhall]

These projects are stalled due to Mayoral election.

Expect news on this project (and two other projects) some time around mid-November.

[TheRifleman]

These projects are stalled due to Mayoral election.

Expect news on this project (and two other projects) some time around mid-November.



If these projects are stalled due to the Mayoral Election. What hell are we paying the BRA for then?

[tobyjug]

To stall the projects.

[TheRifleman]

So the BRA definition should be a Criminal Political Enterprise for free market capitalism.

Now you know why the Boston Skyline is very weak.

[BosDevelop]

These projects are stalled due to Mayoral election.

Expect news on this project (and two other projects) some time around mid-November.

pelhamhall is dead on. A few weeks before the election there will be several announcements and press releases concerning projects going forward. "See, Meninio CAN and DOES get things done." It is laughable at best and corruption at worst.

[Justin7]

Is there any proof of this?

[tmac9wr]

Well there's plenty of hear-say and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.

[statler]

http://blogs.citypages.com/gimmenoise/lionelhutz.jpg

[TheRifleman]

I just would like to know what the BRA is doing with our Tax money for the last 3 months? Especially if NO projects are moving forward.

Actually let me rephrase that. Why are we paying them for not working?

[Shepard]

I'd like to know... How can I get a job there?

[tobyjug]

Well there's plenty of hear-say and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.

Sorry Mac! Hearsay (with very limited exemptions) is inadmissible. Conjecture is not evidence.

[statler]

It was a quote from the Simpsons (http://www.snpp.com/guides/hutz.file.html).

[SeamusMcFly]

And a doozy. R.I.P. Lionel Hutz.

[tmac9wr]

Sorry Mac! Hearsay (with very limited exemptions) is inadmissible. Conjecture is not evidence.

I move for a bad court thinghy...

You mean a mistrial?

Yea! That's why you're the judge, and I'm the...law..talkin guy.

...

Alright I'll stop spamming this thread.

[pelhamhall]

I am not necessarily accusing the BRA of anything. After 16 years under Boss Menino's rule, developers know better than to make news in the months leading up to a mayoral election. It's just bad policy. I know of two developers who are holding news/announcements until after the election. Nothing major, nothing earth-shattering, they just don't want to shake the boat now for fear of angering Menino. If Menino/BRA are guilty of anything, it's continuing to foster this environment... it doesn't mean they are committing fraud or actual crimes.

[tobyjug]

Mac and Stat, you got me.

Prepping for a jury trial now, so the humor discernment gauge is set to low. (But those law books can be more than just decorations, or whatever it was the law-talkin-man said!)

[palindrome]

Government Center Garage Redevelopment Project: Impact Advisory Group Working Session Meeting

Wednesday, October 28, 2009
6:00 pm - 7:30 pm

[eljusticiero67]

^ howd this meeting go?

[Beton Brut]

Sadly, I missed it. I'm really interested to know what went down. Nothing here (http://demolishthegarage.com/meetings.htm) yet...

[JohnAKeith]

From NorthEndWaterfront.com (http://www.northendwaterfront.com/home/2009/11/1/iag-throws-up-yellow-flag-on-the-government-center-garage-pl.html)

IAG Throws Up Yellow Flag on the Government Center Garage Plan
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009

The Government Center Garage Impact Advisory Group (IAG) threw a wrench into the existing developer-led process by insisting that they set the agenda from this point. The turning of the tables happened at last week's public meeting held at City Hall. The group hopes this will result in a more agreeable project plan instead of the tower-heavy, dense office park proposed by developer/owner of the garage, Raymond Group. The IAG is a citizen advisory body guided by the BRA and made up of 13 residents and interested parties from three abutting neighborhoods: West End, Beacon Hill and the North End.

Government Center Garage Redevelopment Impact Advisory GroupSeveral members of the IAG voiced the need for less review of the developer's plan and more public discussion of the possibilities. Some did not think that future meetings would be productive unless the process is substantially revised. Raymond has not updated his development plan in over a year so it is not clear what IAG comments have been incorporated into the design.

To show their combined resolve, the IAG issued a formal letter as read at the meeting by Bob O'Brien of the West End/Downtown North Association.

Here is a partial list of issues raised in the IAG's letter:

* Proposed height and density - IAG strongly objects to what has been proposed.
* Economic justification - What are the alternatives?
* Zoning Compliant Options - Why are these not being considered more thoroughly?
* Architectural details are too vague.
* District Master Plan - Is this development going to be a focal point or the standard of future development in the area?
* Where and why does this project fall within the Greenway District Planning Study?
* Public Elementary School option - The IAG wishes to discuss this option.

The audience watches the IAG deliberate at the public meeting.

Mark Paul, President of the North End/Waterfront Residents' Association, stated that bringing an office park and expanding the Financial District to the edge of three residential neighborhoods was unacceptable.

Ted Raymond asked whether the IAG wants anything built instead of the garage. Leaving the garage "as is" remains an option for the developer. There was general agreement that some type of mixed use development was desirable, but not millions of office square footage. The IAG also questioned why they are being asked to review a plan that includes BRA/City-owned land when it is unclear if this can be part of the redevelopment. There were also comments made that the current process was unduly repetitive and not fair to the IAG nor the developer.

With the three neighborhoods joining forces, it was suggested that the IAG work with the developer on a new plan. The group wishes to avoid working backward from a huge monster plan back to something agreeable. Many in the room expressed concern that this redevelopment project could set the design precedents for future development in all three abutting neighborhoods.

[Beton Brut]

In a word, absurd.

2 + 2 = 5

[czsz]

The Government Center Garage Impact Advisory Group (IAG)

WTF is this!?

insisting that they set the agenda from this point

Again, WTF? How do they think this will go? "I can haz agenda?" "Yes!"

IAG is a citizen advisory body guided by the BRA

Why is the BRA facilitating these idiots? Shouldn't it be neutral and/or drive redevelopment and not stall it?

tower-heavy, dense office park

Unbelievable phrasing.

Some did not think that future meetings would be productive unless the process is substantially revised.

In other words: modify this or we will whine to the media about how you're ignoring "the community," hence letting you do nothing.

* Proposed height and density - IAG strongly objects to what has been proposed.

Surprise.

* Economic justification - What are the alternatives?

More tax dollars funding suburban services instead of yours?

* Architectural details are too vague.

Why make them detailed when there will be endless objections to answer to?

* District Master Plan - Is this development going to be a focal point or the standard of future development in the area?

Do they want it to be? Because it sounds like they want some stumps.

* Where and why does this project fall within the Greenway District Planning Study?

It hopefully has nothing in common with any planning initiative that's led to the Greenway's current physical state so far.

bringing an office park and expanding the Financial District to the edge of three residential neighborhoods was unacceptable.

Again.

Many in the room expressed concern that this redevelopment project could set the design precedents for future development in all three abutting neighborhoods.

It is not in their goddamn neighborhoods! It's across a giant scar park from one of them, and blocks and blocks from the others!!!

[vanshnookenraggen]

For a second I thought "This is BOSTON, not Hitler " was John's response to that crazy article.

The one thing that really kills me is this:

bringing an office park and expanding the Financial District to the edge of three residential neighborhoods was unacceptable.

That is the BEST place for it. It isn't going IN the neighborhoods, it is going outside of and next to.

What pisses me off the most is that the BRA is totally inconsistent. Here will they bend to the will of a loud/politically connected minority or will they bull doze through the process, letting the developer do whatever they please like in Allston? They really can't be trusted anymore.

[Shepard]

I tried to make it to this meeting but couldn't. What's the role of the audience at these meetings? Do you just get to watch the circus or do you have the ability to make any positive contributions? I've never been to these, so I'm interestred to hear how they typically work.

My (Jewish) New Year resolution has been to participate much more in the development process, to whatever extent possible- in addition to whining. Aside from attending these meetings, any other suggestions? I'm a Brookline resident, btw...

[Suffolk 83]

This city's fuckin itself over

[KentXie]

Personally, I believe the BRA are going to approve it regardless of what the community says since Menino doesn't seem to have any bad blood with the developers. With Flaherty however, I'm not so sure. It's a lose lose situation really. If Menino stays, we probably get the tower but we keep a corrupt leader. With Flaherty, everything will be shorten, but developments are more fair.

[GW2500]

Ok who is that we can email about this project. I believe a bunch of people did it a few months back. Time to do it again. One must be persistant when dealing with stupidity.

[palindrome]

I don't even know what to say at this point as everything about NIMBY's has been said before. I can only hope that this is a vocal minority and from this point on I am going to do everything in my power to get this thing built. This development has more potential for positively impacting the city than the last 5 years worth of development combined IMO.

There really hasn't been any negative impacts. The planning process was going smoothly and the developer was on board with the school/new police station. The T studies have shown the T can handle it.

I am just so discouraged about the future of this city at this point. I know nothing is official yet, but this is seriously the straw that is breaking my back.

[palindrome]

Ok who is that we can email about this project. I believe a bunch of people did it a few months back. Time to do it again. One must be persistant when dealing with stupidity.

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/DevelopmentProjects/devprojects.asp?action=ViewProject&ProjectID=1387


How can I find out more? For more information or to comment on the application, contact the project manager, Kristin Kara, at 617-918-4263.

By mail:

Kristin Kara
Boston Redevelopment Authority
One City Hall Square
Boston, MA 02201-1007.

By e-mail: kristin.kara.BRA@CityofBoston.gov

[Shepard]

Are there any pro-development citizens' groups in this city? If there are, does the BRA take them seriously? If there aren't, why not?

[type001]

No argument that this is the same frustrating news we hear everyday. But bask in the fact that Raymond was quoted as saying that leaving the garage "as is" is also an option. That should shut most people up.

[palindrome]

No argument that this is the same frustrating news we hear everyday. But bask in the fact that Raymond was quoted as saying that leaving the garage "as is" is also an option. That should shut most people up.

you would think so....until you read the comments posted under that article John linked too.

And i quote....


Am I the only one concerned about the environmental impact of pulverizing concrete buildings every day of the week? The garage is fine. All it needs is to be muralized or something. Next, they'll want to rip down City Hall. We're all going to die from white lung.

P.S. Nice hole downtown. I have a funny feeling that garage space is going to be "under construction" for two decades.

One of these days we're gonna look back on Scollay Square and sing, "Those were the Days."
November 1, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterE. Dee Bundt-Kerr


E. Dee Bundt-Kerr is not alone in making an excellent point about the proposed destruction of the Government Center Garage. I wrote an open letter to the Raymond Group about environmental impacts some six months ago. It was published in the North End News, shortly after the monster project was proposed. In that letter I pointed out that the North End suffered through almost 20 years of the Big Dig, and we now would like some years of peace and quiet. I suggested Raymond leave the garage as it is. After all, they say it is profitable now as a garage. The dust from pulverising concrete is just one of the scores of horrible environmental problems the developer would throw at us. Of course, the developers and their lawyers and architects and financiers don't live in the North End, so why should they care. Naturally, my letter was ignored by the Raymond Group.

[Lurker]

People too self righteous and stupid to notice that the alternative to dense cities is cutting down more trees and developing pristine land. The hair dye and dry cleaning chemicals these nitwits are exposed to on a daily basis are more cancer inducing than any concrete dust.

[statler]

^^ I wish I could find it it but the CFL (Conservation Law Foundation) once published a paper to the effect. Basically saying that increased density in cities is net positive for the environment.

[Ron Newman]

It will be built, but modified from the original plans -- most things are. I don't see any cause for worry.

[mdd]

I hate this city sometimes.

[pelhamhall]

I would relax on this... the article John posted was just from a newsletter from group of rich old North End malcontents who live in luxury ivory condos.

There is an election tomorrow.

Come the spring, all major construction in the City of Boston will have come to a halt. Think about that. We've all oo'ed and aw'ed over new buildings opening every few months for the past few years.

Well, it's all over. There is no more building in Boston. There are no construction jobs. When that crane comes off Atlantic Wharf, Boston will be crane-less. Not one single, major project will be under construction.

What will we all chat about here?

Getting back to the election... the construction unions and piles of developer cash will have successfully installed Menino to another term. It'll be time for payback.

Anyone else find it odd that there is this huge, transformative, history-making, legacy-making project and not a peep out of Menino?

He's keeping quiet. He's very smart for a dumb guy.

The city has been stalling and stalling on this project. They even made the developer hold a series of "unofficial" meeting before filing their plan. Anthing to slow the process down.

The election's tomorrow, Menino's huge, crushing win should buy him some capital. I wouldn't be surprised if all of a sudden you see Menino taking interest in this site.

[jass]

Well, it's all over. There is no more building in Boston. There are no construction jobs. When that crane comes off Atlantic Wharf, Boston will be crane-less. Not one single, major project will be under construction.

What will we all chat about here?


Theres a lot of transportation projects. Not as exciting to those who follow towers, but still interesting.

Almost all the charles river bridges are set for major reconstruction, as is Mass ave of course.

And maybe they can get started on the green line extension finally.

[stellarfun]

pelhamhall, I would not be so sure that after the election anything will get built. I just posted on another subforum an article from the SF Chronicle today in which construction of new buildings has basically stopped in San Francisco because nobody can get financing.

What makes you think this project is any different from Filene's, SST, that certain project over the Pike, etc, which are approved, which have either construction drawings in place, or on which construction had actually begun?

Menino and the BRA can approve 50 projects, but they can't finance a single one of them.

IMO, the bigger the project, the greater the difficulty in financing it in these times, because a developer needs for multiple lenders to paerticipate and dilute the risk.

[Ron Newman]

Come the spring, all major construction in the City of Boston will have come to a halt.

Isn't Liberty Wharf (Jimmy's Harborside) going to take a little longer than that? And what is the expected completion date for the Ames Hotel?

[KentXie]

^^I think by major construction, he meant high-rises which unfortunately Boston will not see a new one for years. I hate this city sometimes and I won't be surprise if Boston will start stall or even leak population once the supply of housing fails to increase enough and the cost of office space reach sky high from the lack of new office space. Once I'm on my foot after college, I probably would leave as well. Why contribute to a city that is backwards in thinking?

[Ron Newman]

When there is sufficient market demand again, there will be new towers and there will be financing for them. Until then, what's the point?

[stellarfun]

When there is sufficient market demand again, there will be new towers and there will be financing for them. Until then, what's the point?

Even in the good times, there was little lending for large-size, speculative buildings.

I don't know of a major city in the U.S. where construction of new towers continues to boom. As for commercial office vacancy rates, here is the data as of July 2009 from Cushman & Wakefield


Five markets experienced vacancy rate declines or remained unchanged quarter-over-quarter. These included Dallas, the only U.S. market to experience consecutive quarterly vacancy rate declines, to 27.1 percent from 27.2 percent at the end of the first quarter; San Diego, which declined to 14.2 percent from 14.7 percent; San Francisco, which declined to 13.8 percent from 14.0 percent; Houston, which declined to 12.8 percent from 13.0 percent; and Hartford, Conn., which remained unchanged at 22.0 percent.


The top five lowest vacancy rates in the nation at the end of the second quarter were recorded in New Haven, Conn., at 10.0 percent; New York City at 10.5 percent; Portland, Ore., at 10.9 percent; Philadelphia at 11.6 percent; and Boston and Washington, D.C., each at 11.7 percent.

[pelhamhall]

Ron, you're absolutely correct regarding market conditions and the impossibility of financing. A difference in this project is that the financing is coming from construction unions, and may (or may not) be in place. It's a more secure source of funding than commercial banks.

So my point it that with all major construction grinding to a halt, and a large project sitting on the books that may (or may not be) actually able to secure funding - it's got a good chance.

The mayor has been spouting vitriol at the Aquarium garage site since day one... and yet extremely measured on his comments on this site. In this case, his silence is deafening. He needs the North End to come out strong today at the polls, but I'd guess he's a quiet supporter of this plan.

I'd bet he says "it's too tall, and needs more housing" - they lop off 3-4 stories, go from 250 to 275 units of housing and the mayor calls it a success, now that he's waited for the election to be over.

[tmac9wr]

Ron, you're absolutely correct regarding market conditions and the impossibility of financing. A difference in this project is that the financing is coming from construction unions, and may (or may not) be in place. It's a more secure source of funding than commercial banks.


I thought the financing for this project was supposed to already be in place?

[pelhamhall]

Until papers are signed, nothing is ever "in place" but what I meant was that since some of this project's funding comes from the National Electricians Benefit Fund, it has a stronger chance of surviving in today's market.

[palindrome]

What are the chances they could keep the EPA as a tenant in the new building? Perhaps having a tenant already on board would give them more leverage with lenders. This however, would require the EPA to find a temporary home for a couple of years. It wouldn't be hard in this market, but would they be on board for two moves in less than 8 years or so?

[Beton Brut]

What are the chances they could keep the EPA as a tenant in the new building?

Probably not a good idea if we want this to be a dense, mixed use, 6am-2am development. The Feds would put huge constraints on the owner, as they currently do, in the name of security. The Feds killed a hotel project opposite the JFK Building, and have blocked the realignment of Hanover Street between Congress and Cambridge Streets. Instead we get this nonsense (http://www.archboston.org/community/showpost.php?p=87249&postcount=1176).

Send 'em to Fan Pier.

[Suffolk 83]

Wait what's up there? Just the EPA? Who would want do to anything to them? They don't need security. Its not like I'm gonna blow the place up if they took away my pesticide license.

[stellarfun]

Federal building leases are done by the General Services Administration, not by an individual agency, such as EPA. The exceptions would be special purpose buildings; e.g., an agency requiring lab space. In GSA leased space, an agency may be a short-term tenant, replaced by another agency.

[atlantaden]

The Federal Reserve Bank here in midtown Atlanta is almost completely surrounded by high rises, most high rise condo's. How is it that in Atlanta the Feds have no problem with high rises (most built within the past 7 years or so) surrounding one of their buildings and yet in the Government Center area the Feds shoot stop similiar projects? Even in downtown Atlanta, the Federal office buildings are surrounded by neighboring high rises.

[ledjes]

What are the chances they could keep the EPA as a tenant in the new building? Perhaps having a tenant already on board would give them more leverage with lenders. This however, would require the EPA to find a temporary home for a couple of years. It wouldn't be hard in this market, but would they be on board for two moves in less than 8 years or so?

The EPA is wrapping up renovations to the Post Office at PO Square. I believe they're moving there in January and probably locked in there with a pretty long term lease commitment.

[AmericanFolkLegend]

Today's email from the BRA:

Good afternoon:

As a follow up to the November 16th Government Center Garage Redevelopment Project IAG Working Session Meeting, I wanted to forward the link to Peter Gori?s presentation regarding the Greenway District Planning Study?s alternatives for the Government Center Garage site: http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/DevelopmentProjects/PipeDocs/Government%20Center%20Garage%20Redevelopment/SupplementalInformation/Government%20Center%20Garage%20Redevelopment_Suppl ementalInformation.pdf

Thank you.

Regards,
Kristin

[JohnAKeith]

Buried in the Garage drawings of the future Boston skyline are three 400+ foot towers at North Station, two in front and one behind. At least someone out there thinks they'll still be built. Some day.

[Boston02124]

Wait what's up there? Just the EPA? Who would want do to anything to them? They don't need security. Its not like I'm gonna blow the place up if they took away my pesticide license. Try to get into that building it's one of the hardest ,everyone is treated like a terrorist!

[palindrome]

RIP


Garage rebuild plan has new developer
January 13, 2010 05:29 PM E-mail| |Comments (0)| Text size ? +

By Casey Ross, Globe Staff

A proposal to replace the Government Center Garage in downtown Boston with two skyscrapers has been stalled by the tough economy, and its owners have replaced its developer with a former City Hall veteran who will try to retool the ambitious plan.


The garage owners, a venture that includes a national pension fund for electrical workers, replaced Boston developer Ted Raymond, with Thomas O'Brien, who once ran the city's redevelopment agency under Mayor Thomas M. Menino. The owners are also looking for new tenants for the upper floors of the garage, instead of pursuing plans to demolish it and construct the skyscrapers, according to executives involved in the project. Raymond had proposed building a 52-story and 42-story tower.


Raymond, initially hired to advance the the $2.2 billion redevelopment plan, is being removed from the project after failing to move it forward. O'Brien, former director of the Boston Redevelopment Authority, will manage the property and help revise plans for the site.

In an interview yesterday, O'Brien acknowledged the bad economy will make his job difficult, but said he and the owners will try to use the original building proposal as the basis for the revised development. Situated near City Hall Plaza, the project sits at a key intersection in the city along the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway.

"It's hard to envison any high rise moving forward in this environment," he said. "But the owners have made a $250 million investment in this property and they are committed to proceeding at the appropriate time.

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2010/01/garage_rebuild.html



UGH!

[vanshnookenraggen]

It's sad but I can't say this is a shock. These towers now join the long list of great, unbuilt proposals. This might be at the top of that list actually.

[armpitsOFmight]

:cry:

I still think they should put these buildings on Stuart and Kneeland and connect Boston's Spine.

[Corey]

These towers now join the long list of great, unbuilt proposals. This might be at the top of that list actually.

It was certainly in my top 5. RIP.

[bostonbred]

Horay!!! VICTORIOUS LINKING OF PROGRESIVE FORCE OF WEST END PEEPLES WITH FORCEs OF rep M. WALTS AND S> KRESSLE to crush shadows beneath your feet!!! SEE the evil shadow developers run!!!

[Shepard]

Any chance of salvaging this?

[AmericanFolkLegend]

Why would they drop Raymond so quickly? I'm wondering if there's a story behind the story. Did the institutional owners really think a skyscraper on the waterfront in Boston would have zoning approval by now?

[kennedy]

First Saab, now this. Damn the economy!

[itchy]

This is a bummer. Especially if they've now, oddly, hired some BRA goombah and totally changed gears so quickly.

However, it seems that this piece of blight can't remain as it is forever. If there's such a thing as Manifest Destiny in Boston development, it'll turn the garage into dust in the next up-cycle.

[KentXie]

Boston is heading toward stagnation, similar to the period in the 1990s. It's terrible really. Back in 2002, I remember reading a forum poster remarking "Boston is building something? I thought that city was stagnant." Time to drop another level to mediocrity.

[czsz]

It's not like this situation is at all unique to Boston.

[vanshnookenraggen]

/\ This is a global problem. There are still cities much worse off. Get some perspective people.

[atlrvr]

Sounds like Raymond wanted to keep look for financing and not re-commit to another 10 year lease with anyone to preclude their demoing.....sounds like the Pension Fund didn't give a damn about new development, and wanted to get something close to the promised ROI on its investment.....2 different agendas, only 1 possible outcome.

[TheRifleman]

pelhamhall, I would not be so sure that after the election anything will get built. I just posted on another subforum an article from the SF Chronicle today in which construction of new buildings has basically stopped in San Francisco because nobody can get financing.

What makes you think this project is any different from Filene's, SST, that certain project over the Pike, etc, which are approved, which have either construction drawings in place, or on which construction had actually begun?

Menino and the BRA can approve 50 projects, but they can't finance a single one of them.

IMO, the bigger the project, the greater the difficulty in financing it in these times, because a developer needs for multiple lenders to paerticipate and dilute the risk.


I thought President OBAMA, Ben Beranke and CNBC said the recession is OVER?

[palindrome]

I like the herald's take better.

Garage developer out
Government Center owner picks ex-city official for $2.3B job
By Thomas Grillo | Thursday, January 14, 2010 |
...

?We spent millions to devise a project that the city would support, but we?re not sure we?ll ever get it,? said Jeffrey Kanne, president of National Real Estate Advisors. ?Boston does not appreciate how much risk it takes to do a significant development. We can put a building up in Chicago in 16 months.?

But the project faced opposition from the North and West End neighborhoods and Mayor Thomas M. Menino, who argued that the project was too tall and too dense and lacked an elementary school.

Kanne said O?Brien was chosen because he will bring a fresh approach to the project. ?Sometimes new energy helps,? he said. ?We will keep at it, but I?m discouraged.?

Nancy Caruso, a North End activist, is still looking for something other than massive office buildings and luxury condos.

?We don?t need an office tower,? she said. ?We need a supermarket, a school and affordable housing and parking.?

Susan Elsbree, a BRA spokeswoman, said the project is seeking considerable zoning variances. ?This is a very complex project and we have to look out for the taxpayers,? she said.
/view.bg?articleid=1225478

Full Article: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate


Nancy, you don't need any parking at all, and all those other things can be included in the tower.

[Ron Newman]

One of the adjoining Bulfinch Triangle developments is supposed to contain a Stop & Shop, but I don't know what its status is.

Could they really put up a building in Chicago in 16 months if they first had to demolish one (and that builidng spanned a major street)?

[itchy]

That's true, though let's not forget that Chicago is home to the country's two biggest stalled projects (Waterview Tower and The Chicago Spire) -- I was just staying at a hotel across from the former, and it wasn't pretty.

In many ways, this proposal looked like something out of "Aliens." The massing was just bizarre, and I half-think we may have dodged a bullet here. Mumbles won't be around forever, and the end of this term may coincide with the beginning of a new upswing in the market. If we can get a reasonable, pro-growth mayor (not in the sense of allowing historic blocks to be razed for crappy Sheratons built by his cronies, but in the sense of providing more transparency/less arbitrary personal/BRA control to economic and construction policies and, e.g., not red-lining college students and wanting to declare large, central parts of the city "affordable housing"), I imagine this garage will see something decent -- I hesitate to say "fantastic" -- replace it.

[tmac9wr]

What a day. My dog dies this morning and then I get this bit of awesome information. fml

That lady is totally retarded. "We don't need an office tower, we need a school, supermarket, blah, blah"

When did she become the only person in this city...and how does she know those things wouldn't have been included in this plan? This was a massive development that could have housed everything she's looking for.

I know this wasn't necessarily killed by NIMBYs, but the chances of this project getting off the ground were slim-to-none thanks to a combo of NIMBYs and Mumbles...but quotes like that just go to show how clueless and self-centered these people are.

@ Ron, I think the developer was citing the general lack of neighborhood resistance one faces when developing in Chicago vs Boston. Obviously the economy can stall any project in any city (New York has even hit some snags), but NIMBY presence in Chicago is extremely minimal and carry almost zero weight as far as I know.

[tobyjug]

I wouldn't worry about it. As pretty as the pictures were, and the discussions so diverting, this was never going to happen any time soon. No one is going to build something on spec.

It isn't about Boston, per se, or even this project. It is now 2 AM at your favorite pick up joint. Put on your thinking caps, take off the beer goggles, go home alone, sleep it off. Right now the best thing that any would be lover of architecture can do is to hope that NOTHING big gets built for another couple of years. Otherwise, desperation will assure that there will be some ugly not so little somethings on the city's pillow for the next 50 years!

P.S. Condolences to Mac on the fallen brother.

[tmac9wr]

^^ Thanks Toby. I've had him since I was in high school, so seeing him go was pretty tough. Luckily he's got a little brother still kicking around the house...hopefully he doesn't leave us anytime soon.