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View Full Version : A Modern City Hall in an Old City


ablarc
01-04-2009, 09:37 AM
A MODERN CITY HALL IN AN OLD CITY

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0100.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0150.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0200.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0250.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0300.jpg.http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0400.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0350.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0450.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0500.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0550.jpg

photos: Zephyr, Wired New York.

ablarc
01-04-2009, 11:20 AM
^ Like the one in Boston: occupied sculpture placed on a large, bare plaza.

Is it contextual?

Beton Brut
01-04-2009, 12:36 PM
Is it contextual?

The three glass gables are in scale with the surrounding buildings so I'd say yes.

Meier, correct?

Ron Newman
01-04-2009, 02:10 PM
Two differences from Boston: it appears that this plaza is flat, and that it is enclosed by small buildings (and a large church).

czsz
01-04-2009, 03:41 PM
Ron is right. Context is key. This building still doesn't appear very comfortable with its surroundings (I think Hollein's Vienna Haas-Haus looks better in a similar environment), but those surroundings are far superior to those of Government Center. Aesthetically it owes something to the Louvre pyramids.

The building also appears to be far more inviting in and of itself. No forbidding brick steps and fortress-like ramparts, but vast, open windows and outdoor seating transitioning from the (very) public realm to the semi-public one of government administration.

Haas-House, Vienna:

http://www.panos.at/wien1/2001_11-Stephansplatz-QTV-KH-140-MERSPH(x525).jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Stephansplatz_Wien_4.jpg/300px-Stephansplatz_Wien_4.jpg

ablarc
01-05-2009, 09:05 PM
I lived for three months in Blaubeuren, a large village or small town about 30 kilometers west of Ulm. Since I had a car I was a frequent visitor and more than once scaled the thousand-odd steps to the cathedral?s pinnacle.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0100.jpg

This was before Meier?s city hall, so the view down was of a traffic intersection where now stands a handsome plaza.

The gabled row that faces the city hall is new; you can see that in the fa?ade treatments. Meier picks up on them with his sawtooth gabled skylights.

I seem to recall some dull modernist pieces preceded these neo-medievalisms, like the drabster in the upper left; you could have thought of them as placeholders to replace the war?s bomb damage till they figured out how to do it right.

Best of all would have been to reconstruct the prewar structures as they had been, half-timbering and all. The building with the polygonal courtyard escaped the bombs and illustrates Ulm?s pre-war appearance.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0450.jpg

Don?t know what to think of Meier?s building. It sure makes the church look dirty.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/meierulm/0150.jpg

czsz
01-05-2009, 10:00 PM
Note that the sawtooth gables really only work from above. Any echoing of the neo-medieval houses doesn't carry through at street level at all - just the abstraction of a largely horizontal wall - although I guess one could argue that the project as a whole attempts evocation of the past at increasingly abstract levels.

Joe_Schmoe
01-06-2009, 09:25 AM
You just know that if they tried to do that row of townhouses here it would be one long landscraper rather than broken up into individual units. Because it is "dishonest" and "betrays its modernity" to do it otherwise.

statler
01-06-2009, 09:52 AM
I thought it was because buildings with small footprints killed the "FAR" and thus made them "unprofitable".

We need to get our boogymen straight so we know who to blame.

czsz
01-06-2009, 02:45 PM
No developer in Boston has ever worried about making a mockery of history. See: every redbrick lump built from 1971 to today.

bweiss
01-08-2009, 10:29 PM
My wife gave a recital in the Ulm Stadthaus a few years back, so I spent the better part of a week in and around the building, and I have to say that it works quite well. That's partly because it's not actually all that big. The scale is more like the ICA than Boston City Hall, and Meier did a brilliant job of breaking it up into pieces that have distinct programs. As czsz said, there are no steps, so the ground floor is a seamless part of the M?nsterplatz. One side of the ground floor has a tourist information office; the other has a really nice cafe, with indoor and outdoor tables and a great view of the M?nster. Upstairs (in the part above the info office) there's a very attractive meeting room/concert hall (though the acoustics are terrible), which also has a great view of the church. Meier's design is a total contrast to the Gothic and Neogothic church, but as you move in and around and through the Stadthaus, it becomes clear that the design is, to a large degree, driven by an attempt to frame the church in interesting ways. I think it's actually one of Meier's better buildings, partly because it exists in dialogue with something he couldn't control---unlike, say, the various buildings in the Getty Center.

It's true that the building is totally out of context with the traditional buildings of Ulm, but there aren't many of those left. The city was bombed almost flat in the war, and nearly all the buildings that lined the M?nsterplatz were completely destroyed. Only the church itself and a few buildings to its north survived. Also, there had been various attempts to create a more "dignified" backdrop for the church during the late nineteenth century, and there had already been a lot of demolition in and around the square even before the war. So the urban fabric was already pretty badly compromised before the bombing. Interestingly, the Meier building echoes a proposal for the very same spot (and in a somewhat similar style) from the 1920s by Hans Scharoun---the architect of Berlin's Philharmonie.

Personally, I think the Stadthaus actually works much better in context than Hollein's Vienna Haas-Haus, but that's partly because I don't like Hollein's work very much in general.

ablarc
01-11-2009, 05:52 PM
Thanks for your interesting observations. How 'bout some more posts?

How could Boston's music scene be roused from its torpor?

kennedy
01-11-2009, 09:39 PM
It's music scene would be roused if the bars were open til 3am or later.

PaulC
01-12-2009, 10:48 AM
I'm in no position to judge the current music scene, but the 2 am closing didn't prevent Boston from having a major music scene in the 60-90's.

kennedy
01-12-2009, 07:54 PM
As the times change, the trends change, and so should the laws.

PaulC
01-13-2009, 10:26 AM
All I'm saying is that the closing time has no effect on the music scene.

kennedy
01-13-2009, 05:39 PM
If a club is open later, musical act plays longer, more music, means more people dancing, means more money to club, means more money to music, means more/better music. Plus, later closing times would have the effect of raising our reputation as having a nightlife scene, and more people may be encouraged to go out and spend money, longer, pushing more money into the music scene.

Not direct, but it definitely has an impact.

Beton Brut
01-14-2009, 12:48 AM
How could Boston's music scene be roused from its torpor?

It isn't just Boston, ablarc. Consider: it's never been easier for artists to distribute their music, yet too many people would rather sit in front of their flat panel TVs and watch a bunch of talentless assholes humiliate themselves on American Idol than make the effort to catch a set at Wally's, or Jordan Hall, or the Middle East. Or they're playing Rock Band (full disclosure: the co-creator is a friend of mine; he plays clarinet in the chamber ensemble I'm a trustee with).

But I'm still hopeful that the scene in Boston will come around. These guys kinda rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXmP69EkBVA

Don?t know what to think of Meier?s building. It sure makes the church look dirty.

So...What does the rest of the class think of Richard Meier?

Ablarc, I recall you once asking (in regard to the Jubilee Church (http://www.diopadremisericordioso.it/)), "Can this guy design an ugly building?" Well, I like the Jubilee Church, and I agree that many of his buildings are attractive and well crafted. At best, Meier creates a heady brew of Corbu, Aalto (of the Paimio Sanatorium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paimio_Sanatorium)), and Neutra. But it's all so white, and bloodless, and antiseptic.

Maybe I don't know what "good" looks like anymore...

ablarc
01-14-2009, 06:10 AM
Ablarc, I recall you once asking (in regard to the Jubilee Church (http://www.diopadremisericordioso.it/)), "Can this guy design an ugly building?" Well, I like the Jubilee Church, and I agree that many of his buildings are attractive and well crafted. At best, Meier creates a heady brew of Corbu, Aalto (of the Paimio Sanatorium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paimio_Sanatorium)), and Neutra. But it's all so white, and bloodless, and antiseptic.

Maybe I don't know what "good" looks like anymore...
Oh, seen by itself this one is as pretty as any other Meier building. It's just that, in its context, it seems so temporary ... almost like a tent.

Bet it's gone in a hundred years.

But that cathedral...

Beton Brut
01-14-2009, 06:37 AM
But that cathedral...

Word! It's the "sleeper" of continental Europe. And the tallest of all. I think I prefer K?lner Dom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Cathedral) for its more traditional west front, but the way up to the top of the tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UlmMunster3.JPG) is extraordinary. 768 steps -- what was that like?

ablarc
01-14-2009, 07:32 AM
^ No guardrails back then.

The safety Nazis have probably had their way by now, but when I went up, my companion was Terror; an infinity of steps wound vertiginously past yawning prospects of doom. I bet now and then careless folks plunged to death in the abyss.

Corey
01-14-2009, 08:12 AM
Pretty neat looking. I like London's City Hall also.

kennedy
01-14-2009, 08:38 PM
I hate London City Hall, it's too teal.

czsz
01-15-2009, 12:36 AM
It isn't just Boston, ablarc. Consider: it's never been easier for artists to distribute their music, yet too many people would rather sit in front of their flat panel TVs and watch a bunch of talentless assholes humiliate themselves on American Idol than make the effort to catch a set at Wally's, or Jordan Hall, or the Middle East. Or they're playing Rock Band (full disclosure: the co-creator is a friend of mine; he plays clarinet in the chamber ensemble I'm a trustee with).

None of these things seems to have killed the enthusiasm for live music in New York (although it has arguably killed some of the enthusiasm for mainstream live music, but, then again, all of that is getting pumped out of the Idol factory anyway).

Beton Brut
01-15-2009, 11:09 AM
The continued vibrancy of NYC's music scene is a result of scale and cultural diversity. I will say the Philharmonic's schedule looked pretty pedestrian this season.

The fact that Boston produced such a stellar mix of smart rock and smarter pop in the 80's and 90's (The Pixies, Galaxie 500, Buffalo Tom) was a function of our university communities. I was at the Paradise a few weeks ago for Mercury Rev -- it was mobbed. The scene changed, because the means of delivery changed (and the entire record industry capsized as a result). Considering live music, good Jazz still oozes out of NEC and Berkley. An array of new classical ensembles rose in the 90's (Metamorphosen [RIP], BMOP (http://www.bmop.org/), Chameleon (http://www.chameleonarts.org/), and Radius (http://radiusensemble.org/)). Boston and Cambridge are also centers for Early Music.

I miss the Channel and the Rat. I'll miss Avalon and Axis as well. I'm reserving final judgment on the new venues on Lansdowne, though the design is repulsive.

czsz
01-15-2009, 11:47 AM
But again, you're talking about structural factors. Many of the small bands in New York are formed by groups of postcollegiate kids in a limited set of neighborhoods and subcultures. Arguably the same is true of Boston, where there is a similar student population. Means of delivery would have hit both cities in the same way - and online sampling should be favoring low budget up and coming college bands anyway.

Boston's early music and classical scene is indisputably formidable, but like most of the city's timidly traditional architecture, it only adds to the image of Boston as steadfastly retrogressive. Plus you can't build a cultural capital on such a small foundation - Boston needs strength in more contemporary music in order to draw more diverse (and hence, larger) crowds.

Beton Brut
01-15-2009, 03:40 PM
Risking the total hijacking of this thread, I beg to differ on our cultural organizations' commitment to new music. Harvard and MIT host two of our finest composers, John Harbison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harbison) and Bernard Rands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Rands). I'm close with several of their students, including Ken Ueno (http://www.kenueno.com/), Curtis Hughes (http://www.curtiskhughes.com/), and Jonathan Bailey Holland (http://www.jonathanbaileyholland.com/). Their music is performed frequently in and around Boston by the groups referenced above, and others.

I do agree that the rock scene has slid a bit in the past few years, though groups like the Dresden Dolls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Dolls) and Dear Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_Leader_(band)) continue to do interesting work.

scootie
01-24-2009, 10:08 AM
Unlike Boston City Hall plaza, the plaza in which the Ulm City Hall sits was established in the 14th C. So the problem is our impatience... We should just wait five hundred years for City Hall plaza to be ingrained in the daily life of the city. I'm sure Menino will still be Mayor.


Also I think the second photo posted is an inverse of the Trinity Church/John Hancock building relationship in that the older chuch dwarfs the modern glass box. The Ulm Cathedral was the tallest building in its day, J Hancock was [is?] the tallest building in New England....I think each City should trade modern boxes to make it a fair fight.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/3222067899_907c103b8c_o.jpg

kennedy
01-24-2009, 12:10 PM
Scootie, that's an awesome comparision. By the way, welcome to archBoston!

vanshnookenraggen
01-24-2009, 01:22 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/3222067899_907c103b8c_o.jpg

Holy crap that is awesome.

statler
01-24-2009, 02:45 PM
^^Brilliant.

scootie
01-24-2009, 04:25 PM
Thank you Senator. Glad to be here.

kennedy
01-24-2009, 06:51 PM
Ah, you caught me...