128 Project

[mass88]

Does anyone in the know have any updates or news on the widening project on 128? Or any pictures, renderings or maps?

[Ron Newman]

I've never understood why this project is necessary or desirable. Why not just keep the existing policy of taking over shoulders as travel lanes during rush hour, or extend the hours of that experiment?

[Beton Brut]

I've never understood why this project is necessary or desirable. Why not just keep the existing policy of taking over shoulders as travel lanes during rush hour, or extend the hours of that experiment?

Because this was never a good idea to begin with. When you consider the horrendous lane-discipline of the average driver in this region, 128 is one of the most harrowing experiences you can have in an automobile.

[Ron Newman]

But the existing policy doesn't cost much and doesn't cause any environmental disruption; it seems to have stood the test of time. It could and should have been extended to other highways such as Route 3 from Burlington to Lowell. I'd rather save the construction dollars for things we really need, like the Green Line extension.

[Beton Brut]

But the existing policy doesn't cost much and doesn't cause any environmental disruption; it seems to have stood the test of time.

Cold comfort if a member of your family is injured or killed while changing a tire in the breakdown lane of 128. If you take the particular risky nuances out of the equation, 128 is still dangerous.

I'd rather save the construction dollars for things we really need, like the Green Line extension.

Mutually exclusive budgets. Ron, I'll never, ever argue the merits of spending an order of magnitude more on Public transportation in this region. That said, 128 and Route 3 should be re-engineered to be safe for the volume of traffic they carry.

[Lrfox]

^I agree. I typically disagree with lane widening, but his is one of a few areas that could use it badly. It's dangerous to drive, difficult to merge on and off and a free breakdown lane is an absolute MUST during rush hour.

Most people I know traveling from points south of the city to points north avoid 128 at all costs during rush hour (and even off-peak hours) opting instead for the much lengthier 495 or much more congested I-93. An additional lane would be able to carry the same volume of traffic, while allowing disabled vehicles to safely use the breakdown lane.

[InTheHood]

Let me echo the others. While the existing policy may have "stood the test of time" in a temporal sense, there have been some horrific crashes and there are terrifying near-misses almost daily. Because this is an interstate highway, and because the concept of "driving on the shoulder" is foreign to 95% of all Americans, innocent / unwitting out-of-towners stumble into dangerous situations every day. It's actually MORE dangerous during the "shoulder" (pardon the pun) periods on either end of the rush hour, when it's not completely obvious to Grandma from Indiana that someone may be barrelling down at 80 mph on her right as she prepares to exit.

I'm suspicious of highway expansions, and I'm agnostic on the subject of how many lanes there should be on each of the major arteries, but this was a stupid idea from day one.

[Dan]

While I am not a big fan of highway projects, let me suggest that Route 128 also needs new interchanges designed for current traffic levels.

In particular, I am thinking of the interchange with 93, but there are others.

[yigal]

Route 128 also needs new interchanges designed for current traffic levels.

Should we really dump our money into that, rather than into public transportation? The commuter rail system could surely use a facelift.

[PaulC]

I've always noticed that the breakdown lane was frequently used as a high speed lane, not the slowest lane.

[jenkins]

Should we really dump our money into that, rather than into public transportation? The commuter rail system could surely use a facelift.

I don't drive in the Boston area, so I can't really speak for 128, but if people are demanding an overhaul, they probably need it. Of course, the commuter rail needs not only an overhaul but massive expansion and new spending...really, both projects should be funded. I would eagerly pay higher taxes if I knew they were going to decent projects like commuter rail expansion or electrification.

[jenkins]

Actually, how much would this project cost? Electrifying the commuter rail would cost 2 billion (according to the PMT), or $310.09 for every person in the state (worth it!).

[yigal]

In today's political climate, I think people would sooner give a kidney than pay an extra dime in taxes.

[mass88]

While I am not a big fan of highway projects, let me suggest that Route 128 also needs new interchanges designed for current traffic levels.

In particular, I am thinking of the interchange with 93, but there are others.

The current interchange of 95/93 is going to be completely redesigned as part of widening project. A lot of great things are going to come out of this aside from the extra lane. One, the breakdown lane will be returned to its normal function. Two, over a dozen bridges and crossing are either going to be rebuilt, or drastically improved. Three, the current half clover interchange for 95/93 is going to be redesigned. The entire project is supposed to be costing $441 million.

[Ron Newman]

But why should we invest in automobile-related infrastructure at all anymore, beyond the minimum needed to prevent it from falling apart?

[yigal]

The current interchange of 95/93 is going to be completely redesigned as part of widening project.

Which 95/93 interchange are you talking about? There are two, one at the Blue Hills and the other in Woburn.

[Ron Newman]

I'd happily cut the Route 128 widening project ...

[cden4]

The one in Woburn.

There are many things to think about right now:

Traffic on 95/128 and 93 is increasing as more and more businesses are built along it. Unfortunately, there are few ways to get to these businesses than by car because mass transit is not available and not necessarily economically feasible due to the lack of density and connectivity of these areas. However, cities along 95/128 and 93 continue to push for more development as a way to increase tax revenue.

95/128 and 93 are not able to handle this additional traffic. They weren't designed for it. The state ends up footing the bill when they widen the roads because of these suburban cities' development decisions. The widened roads also then encourage more driving and more development, and within a few years will once again be over capacity. It's an endless cycle.

On the other hand, gas is expensive, and people are looking for alternatives to driving. Does it really make sense for the state to continue to encourage car-oriented development that will put further strain on our infrastructure? Wouldn't it make more sense to target development in areas already well served by many modes of transportation?

[Lrfox]

^I'm assuming the one at Blue Hills, but Both could use some work. the Route 24 exit is bad and could use some reworking as well.

Ron, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but this project isn't to improve or increase capacity and encourage more motorists, it's to increase safety. It's a dangerous road, and improvements are necessary in this particular situation. 95/128 is a suburban highway, it's a major thoroughfare for people heading everywhere from Canada, Maine, and New Hampshire all the way down to Miami.

If rush hour breakdown lane travel were allowed on 93 and they planned on widening to improve safety, my feelings would be different. I'd say just eliminate breakdown lane travel, and let the congestion build-- hopefully some of those people would consider alternate routes. But that's not the case for 128, it's a major roadway meant to be used by people traveling long distances as well as regular local commuters and the safety concerns warrant this project.

Who knows, if it's successful, it may even alleviate a little traffic from 93. I personally use 93, even in rush hour, to travel from south of Boston to the north simply because I can't stand driving on 128. I know lots of people who do the same. If it were easier and safer to use 128, maybe it'll take some cars out of the city and force them around it (just a though, nothing other than personal tastes of myself, friends, and family to back it up).

*edit* didn't realize they meant the interchange in Woburn, doesn't change the rest of my post though.

[mass88]

Which 95/93 interchange are you talking about? There are two, one at the Blue Hills and the other in Woburn.

The one in Canton. There are 2 interchanges that are going to be reconstructed, the 93/95 change up in Woburn and the change in Canton.

[mass88]

But why should we invest in automobile-related infrastructure at all anymore, beyond the minimum needed to prevent it from falling apart?

Because anyone you look at it, cars are a necessity of life and highways and major roads will never go away. 128 is not in the city of Boston, it is a good distance from it and mass transit cannot come close to filling the needs of the area. People coming from the south, Canton, Weymouth, Mansfield, Foxboro, etc. going to work up in Bedford, Waltham, Burling, Woburn, etc. have no way of taking public transportation that is cheap and somewhat fast. 128 is an important road and needs to be improved.

"If rush hour breakdown lane travel were allowed on 93 and they planned on widening to improve safety, my feelings would be different. I'd say just eliminate breakdown lane travel, and let the congestion build-- hopefully some of those people would consider alternate routes. But that's not the case for 128, it's a major roadway meant to be used by people traveling long distances as well as regular local commuters and the safety concerns warrant this project."

If you are referring to the southwest expressway from Braintree to downtown, then that road needs work too. There is no reason why a major highway going into Boston could be shut down to just 3 lanes, no breakdown lane, at any period of time. The design of the Southeast expressway is flawed and if anything, that road needs to be widened to ease congestions. Personally, I think what should have been done is similar to the JFK express way in Chicago where you have a permanent lane blocked off as an HOV lane.

[yigal]

Isn't there a HOV lane on the I-93? I'd love to see ones on I-90 and I-95.

[Ron Newman]

Seems to me that adding a short turnout every 2 or 3 miles would suffice for breakdown purposes. That's what Storrow Drive has.

[buju b]

Not sure how much 10 million would shave off of the 128 widening.

What I do know is that for that last 8 years, I have had to drive from Dedham to Wilmington and back, on average, about once every other week during the early phases of rush hour (departing Dedham around 6:40 am and departing Wilmington around 3:30pm). 128 is three lanes (in each direction, not counting the breakdown lane usage) from Rt 3 in Braintree to Rt 9 in Wellesley. It is 4 lanes from Rt 9 northward.

While the morning commute I have made is usually smooth enough (can easily average 60 mph +, barring accidents or bad weather), the afternoon one can be dicey. Things normally roll quite smoothly from 93 all the way down 128 until about the Mass Pike, where normal congestion around this time (4pm-ish) starts accumulating at the lane drop in Wellesley and stacks up northward. On days with bad weather or with an accident or when a Statie is on the side of the road, the traffic can back up all the way into Waltham.

My point is that it seems that widening 128 to four lanes all the way through to Rt 3 would help the situation (at least anectdotally).

That said I am no traffic engineer, travel out of state a vast majority of the time on business and as long as it is 'dry' outside, will ride my bike (in conjunction with the commuter rail) so I am no expert on the planning of such things nor do I have to suffer through this as often as most commuters. It will be interesting to see if it does have the intended effect on the congestion.

[yigal]

Storrow Drive is not exactly the last word in road safety...

[Waldorf]

I'd happily shave off $10 million from police details.

[Suffolk 83]

I should have better things to do, but I have to argue the widening of 128. I don't even know of the plan, but from 95 to Braintree can be brutal. The 24 interchange is generally horrible, and even bad off-hours.

I know people here hate cars and highways, but until a commuter rail/subway loop gets built slightly inside of 128, 128 is always going to be horrible. It hurts people everywhere close to the city (it limits me from taking jobs in weston or woburn or burlington, etc.) If this were added, it would be a generous benefit to the taxpayers of Mass., even if some people in C-bridge (ron) don't think its necessary because they never use it. (see NIMBY's)

[ablarc]

It will be interesting to see if it does have the intended effect on the congestion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

[Dan]

Right. But induced demand is also a phenomena of transit improvements. And we don't say "lets not build the Green Line to Sommerville, because it may result in induced demand". In fact, we WANT induced demand in this instance.

Concern about induced demand on highways is only relevant to people who consider any congestion the ultimate evil.

A more relevant measure (for both highways and transit) is "Are more people able to get to where they want to go ?"

[buju b]

Ablarc,

Thanx for the link. In reading through it, most of it seemed reasonable, at least in a theoretical sense.

In the actual case of 128 being widened, I do not think there is much fear of it encouraging additional development (as most of the area is fairly well built out already) and therefore would not suffer substantial traffic increases from this potential source. The window to 'zone out' development has long closed in/around 128.

I do think that, over time, the demand would increase to eventually 'use up' the added capacity, but that it will take a long time to do so. I do not necessarily think this is cause to not move forward with the project. Especially given the population density of the area, the amount of commercial activity that relies on the road (for better or worse) and the unlikelihood of any viable public transit option that mimics the route--I wish there was a better chance of this happening and I am very much for expanding all things public transit related, but the reality I think points otherwise.

Perhaps adding in tolls or increased fees (as mentioned in the article) would have the effect of reducing usage . . . the toll issue is a current and separate one though and I'll treat it as such.

In my mind, the scenario that hatched the big dig is not a bad analogy (cost overruns, union incompetence, and moronic corrupt contractors and politics aside). Clearly the Interstate roadways that went through downtown had been maxed out for quite some time and the long periods of bumper to bumper traffic was not good for anyone. Mind you, a decent public transit system was and is in place for commuters coming from a majority of Boston's suburbs. And as alluded to earlier, pretty much all of the land within 128 and a good portion of the land within 495 was and is fairly well developed (yes there is always development going on, but it is not as though greater Boston just sprung up 30 years ago). The argument could be made that many of the closer communites were and are also served reasonably well by the subway and bus lines (and ferries?). So even with viable options for many commuters, there was still traffic (people passing through, commercial traffic, those not served well by public transit, and those that just do not use it). The decision was made to 'do something'.

The finished product of the big dig, now substantially complete for a couple of years with other portions having been done for over a decade (Williams tunnel, for example), has clearly improved the congestion through the city and to the airport. Are there times that it is still bumper to bumper, even without bad weather and/or accidents? Sure, but not nearly as much (my apologies for not being able to provide any emperical data).

Was it 'worth' the cost of the project? Well, that is a subjective question and depends on many factors, notably how you define 'worth'. I would say yes. The cost of having done nothing would probably have already amounted to 15 billion in lost time and fuel (and, resultiningly, business and profits) over the last 20 years.

Again, no hard data but if you multiplied the difference in the number of hours of congestion times the number of people 'caught' in it times some reasonble approximation of an hourly rate and added to that a summation of a likewise reasonable approximation of the extra fuel that would have been used to sit in the traffic over the same period of time I am sure it would be one hell of a big number.

In summary, like the big dig, I think widening 128 will have more of a positive effect than a negative one on congestion. And I think this effect will persist for a fairly long time--we are talking about a 33% increase in roadway capacity . . . I just do not see a commensurate increase in usage anytime soon, especially if gas prices stay above 2.00 per gallon. That said, I do not think it is the perfect or ideal or even a stand alone solution, but I do think it will help.

[jenkins]

In my mind, the scenario that hatched the big dig is not a bad analogy (cost overruns, union incompetence, and moronic corrupt contractors and politics aside). Clearly the Interstate roadways that went through downtown had been maxed out for quite some time and the long periods of bumper to bumper traffic was not good for anyone. Mind you, a decent public transit system was and is in place for commuters coming from a majority of Boston's suburbs. And as alluded to earlier, pretty much all of the land within 128 and a good portion of the land within 495 was and is fairly well developed (yes there is always development going on, but it is not as though greater Boston just sprung up 30 years ago). The argument could be made that many of the closer communites were and are also served reasonably well by the subway and bus lines (and ferries?). So even with viable options for many commuters, there was still traffic (people passing through, commercial traffic, those not served well by public transit, and those that just do not use it). The decision was made to 'do something'.

You're entirely right about a good subway system already existing, but let's be honest: it's NOT perfect. The T doesn't serve Boston as thoroughly as it really should, and is not in great physical shape either. Plenty of people avoided the subway simply because it was "dirty." If the subway were considerably cleaner, used newer technology, and was in a generally better state of repair, it would attract far more riders. And that's before expansion.

I would go so far as saying that rather than submerging I-93, it should have been outright demolished, and the $15 billion put into renovation and drastic expansion of the public transit network.

This (http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff354/34chan/roughTmap.png) is what I have in mind for the T itself in downtown Boston (a work in progress; I apologize for the messiness of this map).

This (http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff354/34chan/Picture3.png) is my light rail proposal, and this (http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff354/34chan/Picture1.png) is my regional rail proposal, with all Boston-area lines terminating at an underground Central Station.

I realize that $15 billion wouldn't get this finished, but it would definitely be a step in the right direction.

[Lrfox]

^Off topic, but I don't know if I'd like to see commuter rail stretching out to and along the Cape. Maybe as far as Wareham (and they really want it) or Bourne, but no further. As much as I am pro mass transit, there are some places better left untouched and Cape Cod is one of them. Few people live on the Cape and commute to Boston, and those who do choose to do so by the means they already use (it's not like they're "stuck" in their over priced homes and have no other alternative). There is a ferry from P-Town and that's about all they need.

Otherwise, I appreciate the hard work in your maps. I love looking at proposals such as yours no matter how far off from reality they really are.

[jenkins]

Thanks for the support! I just wanted to point out, though, that the last map is meant more for regional rail than commuter rail. The rail lines on the Cape would probably run from Wareham to P-Town and the other short lines would also operate locally. There might be a twice-daily express from P-Town or Hyannis to Boston, but otherwise there wouldn't be any through traffic. The point would be to improve rail mobility on the cape and condense the developments there, reducing and ultimately reversing the effects of sprawl.