Last stop Wonderland

[pharmerdave]

Here is a link to the ENF for the proposed Waterfront Square at Revere Beach TOD. 1,366,694 sq ft of new development including 753 condos adjacent to the Wonderland Station.

http://www.mass.gov/envir/mepa/pdffiles/enfs/080807em/14080.pdf

[chumbolly]

Development likely to have Revere Beach gleaming anew
$500m complex to cover 10 acres

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | August 30, 2007

With new upscale condominiums being built and plans for a $500 million hotel, office, residential, and retail development in the works, Revere Beach may be ready for a comeback more than a half century after its glory days.

Since the early 1950s, Revere has tried in vain to restore life to its historic beachfront, the first in the nation officially reserved for public use. But that's about to change -- groundbreaking is scheduled next year on a project to develop about 10 acres adjacent to the Wonderland MBTA station. Plans for the development, called Waterfront Square at Revere Beach, include a 13-story hotel, 902 condominiums, and nearly 200,000 square feet of office, restaurant and retail space. It should begin just as a $9 million upgrade of the beach and Revere Beach Parkway is being completed by the state Department of Conservation and Recreation.

Here's the link to the full article: http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/08/30/development_likely_to_have_revere_beach_gleaming_a new/

[Joe_Schmoe]

One South Boston Waterfront isn't anough, we need two.
Those condos better have bars, restaurants, and nightclubs on the first floor.

[kennedy]

I've been eyeing this spot of land for awhile, but the renderings from boston.com look nothing like the posters. Either that, or I'm thinking of a different development (I believe the poster said "The Ocean Club at Revere Beach").

I am really excited to see what happens here, because Revere Beach really has the potential to become the South Beach of the Northeast. If only colder.

Also, the mention of the casino at Wonderland dogtrack is new (for me, at least). I think this is a much better location, near condos and hotels, instead of single family homes and a gas terminal. It has a nightclub (Lido, which could use a little refurbish), and easy mass transit access.

I'm just wondering when the MBTA will make it a priority to renovate the Wonderland station? It certainly could use it, especially with this influx of people from the developments.

[Beton Brut]

One South Boston Waterfront isn't enough, we need two.
Those condos better have bars, restaurants, and nightclubs on the first floor.

There isn't much "architecture" in this proposal and its linear nature may only serve to wall off the beach from some of residential Revere and what little remains of the Shirley Avenue shopping district. Still, this has been a long time coming and will likely help revitalize the area. Considering that Revere Beach is only 6 miles from downtown and on a subway line, there's no reason why Revere shouldn't be as attractive as JP.

I'm just wondering when the MBTA will make it a priority to renovate the Wonderland station?

The station was rebuilt in the early 90s. A better idea would be to create a connection between Wonderland Station and the Commuter Rail tracks on the far side of the dog track.

Also, the mention of the casino at Wonderland dog track is new (for me, at least). I think this is a much better location, near condos and hotels, instead of single family homes and a gas terminal.

Marginally better than Suffolk because of the potential Commuter Rail connection, but the site is significantly smaller than Suffolk, and the traffic issues are just as bad.

[briv]

Renderings from the article:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/1188316986_4473.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/1188316965_3579.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/1188316941_5017-2.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/1188316695_7090.jpg

[belmont square]

its linear nature may only serve to wall off the beach from some of residential Revere and what little remains of the Shirley Street shopping district

I don't think those are concerns for this proposal. The project basically runs from Wonderland Station to Revere Street. I believe the only connections to the beach from the interior of Revere through this parcel would be passing through Wonderland Station (which would still be allowed by this proposal) and a small footbridge from Agawam Street (which due to the traffic volumes on Route 1A, is probably only serving 20 houses on the east side of the highway at most).

Shirley Ave is about 1/2 mile south of this proposal and would not be impacted (unless positively by higher income residential populations within walking distance).

Other than Beachmont and the hill at the top of Centennial Ave, which are both south of the end of the beach, most of the area inland of the beach is relatively flat with no views to the water. If anything, the existing and proposed towers at the beach serve as a visual clue as to where the beach is.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Renderings = Yawn.

Miami Beach this ain't.

[czsz]

Ouch, it really does remind me of a second SBWaterfront.

There was never as much potential here, though. Less worth complaining about.

[nico]

Does anyone know if this will effect Bianchi's?

[Beton Brut]

There was never as much potential here, though. Less worth complaining about.

Time will tell. The site is more limited than any of the more desirable locations in Southie, but it's on a proper subway line and the ocean view doesn't hurt. I agree that the buildings are a snooze, but they're a world better than some of the crap that's been built in Revere recently.

http://www.thesurfsidelofts.com/i/Surfside/new_front.jpg

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/08/28/1188317095_9496-1.jpg

[Beton Brut]

Does anyone know if this will effect Bianchi's?

Hope not!

[kennedy]

Hey, that weird blue building's architect is a friend of mine. He really doesn't build stuff like that though, he's more used to people's mega vaca homes on the water-that was the biggest project he ever did. And STOP BITCHING about the design of this. Creating a wall between the beach and Revere? A highway, some homes, a dog track, and a marsh? Are you retarded?

I think Walter Jacobs blue building would work if only the other shit old buildings were redone.

And I don't care that the MBTA reworked Wonderland in the '90s. It sucks, and they didn't do a whole lot to it.

[KentXie]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/briv1/1188316941_5017-2.jpg

Seems like the desire for open space in Boston has spread into Revere. It looks like an airport landing strip behind the projects.

[Ron Newman]

That's a salt marsh, I believe.

[Equilibria]

If only the T would improve service to match the shiny new stations people are building for them... or do a better job when they build themselves.

I don't mind the design at all, although I would have liked some more definition in textures along the strip instead of straight blue glass, but blue glass looks fine and reflects the water. I know they needed some offices to make the project viable (this isn't Miami Beach), but an office park isn't the ideal development on the beach front.

I like the boulevards and park strip, too.

[czsz]

Question: why isn't this kind of development taking place along the Dorchester waterfront, which is actually in the city of Boston?

There's potential for waterfront-property values driven densification from Lynn to Hull, and transit to match.

[Joe_Schmoe]

I wonder what the goal here is. I doubt it will make families want to go to Revere rather than to the relatively untarnished natural beauty of the Cape, and I doubt the world's young and beautiful people will flock here like Miami. Seems to me to be a large threat of it becomming Atlantic City, with a field of blight behind the shiny highrises, or ,shudder, Virginia Beach.

[JimboJones]

A couple months ago, a banker contacted me for my thoughts on building a condo complex on Revere Beach. It was a different development than this one, but my thoughts are relevant to both, I think.

His email:

Hi John. I stumbled upon your page and thought you might be able to answer a few questions I had concerning the condo market in the suburban Boston area.

I?m looking at possibly financing a project right on Revere Beach and was wondering what your feel of the market was up there as it was difficult to find any real comps.

Would a project in this area be a legitimate option for someone wanting to commute into the city? More specifically, young professionals?

Thanks, look forward to hearing from you!

My email:

Please feel free to send me any and all questions you may have about the Boston real estate market, I?d be happy to offer some advice and opinion.

I?m not sure the question should be ?will people want to commute from Revere Beach into Boston?, but ?will people want to live on Revere Beach??

If you haven?t yet been to Revere Beach, I think you should visit to get an idea of what it?s like, currently. I?m sure with your research you?ve read a lot about its history. It?s become kind of a run-down neighborhood. The area is full of single-family and multi-family homes made up of people at the lower-rung of the economy. There is a supermarket within driving distance, but little else in the way of 24-hour a day appeal. There are a couple of bars on the street, but nothing you?d want to spend much time in. The strip itself is made up of unattractive homes and a good number of fast-food restaurants (no chains). Kelly?s Roast Beef is the most famous of them all - it?s open late and serves good food. I am up there three or four times a year, but only to stop at Kelly?s.

I haven?t been there during the summer, however. I can?t say what it?s like, then. It?s not popular enough to attract outsiders. I assume it gets a good number of younger folk racing up and down the street in their cars (actually up the street, since it?s one-way for much of it). The beach is not that attractive.

Regarding existing housing, there are several condo projects on Revere Beach Blvd that would be considered ?cheap? by Boston standards (say, $200,000 - $300,000 for 800 square feet - $250 / SF or so?). From what I remember, several of these buildings were built or converted into condos in the mid-1980?s, and then several of the buildings went into foreclosure when the market dropped after 1989. There may be a message there.

(One building is called the ?Saint George? and another is OceanGate Towers - I don?t know if either of these had bankruptcy problems.)

Regarding new construction, there were several condo projects built or proposed over the past several years. One off the strip is called Belle Isle Condominiums. Another is called Surfside Lofts and another is called The Ocean Club. The Atlantica was an 80-unit building completed in mid-2005. Most units sold under $400,000, around $280-340 / SF.

The Ocean Club will add 242 units to the beach. That?s a lot. Plus, they are asking in the $350 - $450 / SF range, which is higher than any other properties for sale. Again, cheaper than what you?d find in downtown Boston (where average is probably $500 overall, and $800 or more / SF for new construction).

I?ve been skeptical about The Ocean Club, but according to our local MLS, it looks as though 50-60 units are under agreement, already, at prices ranging from $350,000 - $700,000.

Hmmm.

I think there is a very limited supply of people who would be willing to live on Revere Beach. Those that do may be people who don?t commute into Boston - perhaps they work in the area or to the north of Boston. The new Harbor Tunnel speeds the commute, somewhat, but there?s still traffic at rush hour. This can be a deterrent, but not more so than the other thousands of people who drive in, every day. (There are two subway stops nearby, which would be very useful to young professionals needing access to Boston.)

Those who don?t already live in Boston would need to be persuaded to live in Revere. They have no idea how far (or close) it is to Boston. Those that already live in Boston would need to be persuaded to move outside the city, and persuaded to move to Revere. I?d say a fair number would rule it out. If the choice is downtown Boston (Back Bay, South End, Beacon Hill) and a smaller place versus Revere Beach and a larger place, I think half would choose the smaller place, or choose another of Boston?s neighborhoods such as Jamaica Plain, Dorchester, or Brighton. Those are within the city limits.

It?s been a surprise to me that more people aren?t being driven by price - they still seem to be focused on location. I guess if they can?t get the location they want, they just end up not buying. I deal with a lot of first-time homebuyers. Last year was really slow, in the spring. The year before and this year, it?s been busy. The buyers just jumped back in, with lots of money and focused on buying secure investments. Seeing as Revere Beach is so undeveloped (underdeveloped?) the average young professional may be too scared to take the chance. I mean, what if it never takes off as a neighborhood? If the young buyer is planning on a five-year stay before moving to the suburbs or moving-up and/or into the city, will they be willing to take a chance?

So, I just asked my partner what he thought of when he thought of ?Revere Beach?. He said, ?Tacky?. ?Inconvenient?. And, also something else which I won?t repeat.

When I think of projects such as this, I think of young men buying their first home. They would be willing to forgo local amenities for a unique and/or cheap place to live. If this was part of your target market, I think it would have appeal.

The ?traditional? young couple might not be as willing. The empty-nester from the local area may be willing. The gay male couple would not be, due to its reputation, local architecture, and distance from downtown.

I hope this helps. I can be more specific or less specific, if you want to send me more questions.

Thanks!


Link: http://bostonreb.com/blog/2007/09/03/revere-beach-developments-bankers-beware/

[Beton Brut]

Hey, that weird blue building's architect is a friend of mine.

The Rubbermaid shed in my back yard has more architectural integrity.

And STOP BITCHING about the design of this. Creating a wall between the beach and Revere? A highway, some homes, a dog track, and a marsh?

I'm not bitching. I am calling into question some of this proposal's goals, in that it appears to turn its back on the existing residential neighborhood. It does little to engage or enhance the existing conditions. Revitalizing the area around Shirley Avenue into a human-scaled shopping and dining destination should also be on the city's agenda.

Revere Beach is pathetic and needs an infusion of money and ideas. There's room under the bus for the city's government, the Commonwealth (in the guise of the MDC the MBTA and Mass Highway), and a politically disengaged electorate. One thing is clear: this half-assed collection of precast rubbish will do little or nothing to improve Revere Beach's failings as a public space, entertainment destination, or center for smart growth.

And I don't care that the MBTA reworked Wonderland in the '90s. It sucks, and they didn't do a whole lot to it.

The entire station was rebuilt (i.e. new construction) in the 90s. I agree the finishes and the T's approach to maintenance are both shameful.

Are you retarded?

Really? When's recess?

It?s become kind of a run-down neighborhood. The area is full of single-family and multi-family homes made up of people at the lower-rung of the economy.

In another thread you mentioned:

Expand the Section 8 program, gradually move everyone out of BHA housing and integrate them into the community.

There are many Section 8 residents in this part of Revere.

Your email to your friend the banker displays an understanding of the numbers, demographics, and buyer values that are all in play in Greater Boston. It also displays a barely veiled contempt for Revere Beach. What's up with that?

[lexicon506]

Revere could use the money from casino revenues, and it would be a safer distance from the main commerical areas of Boston so not to affect them as much. While I would support a more moderate casino to revitalize Suffolk Downs, the type of resort they're proposing is a bit too much.


Casino plan may pit two moguls
Wonderland talks set stage for possible battle

By Matt Viser, Globe Staff | December 3, 2007

Donald Trump and the owner of Wonderland Greyhound Park have started talks about teaming up on a resort casino proposal at the Revere track, setting the stage for a potential battle with Suffolk Downs in East Boston, which is operated by a business foe of Trump's who also seeks to build a casino.

Trump telephoned Wonderland owner Charles Sarkis Monday and set the talks in motion during a 15-minute conversation, Sarkis said. The discussions are another sign of the intense jockeying among developers who are trying to get deals in place in response to Governor Deval Patrick's proposal to license three casinos around the state.

A Trump bid from Revere could set up a turf war with Suffolk, which is owned by a former friend of Trump's, Richard Fields. Fields and Trump had a falling out over a casino partnership and are currently embroiled in a $1 billion lawsuit in Florida's Broward County. The suit, filed in 2004, has generated four boxes full of legal claims and counterclaims over a casino deal in Florida that went sour.

The Globe reported on Thursday that Trump executives have been scouring the state for potential casino sites, including the Holyoke Mall, Plainridge Racecourse, and sites in Fall River, New Bedford, and Warren. Sarkis's confirmation of talks is the first time a possible Trump location has been identified in metropolitan Boston.

"He was very intrigued by the situation. He said the Boston area is a place where there should be a casino. It makes all the sense in the world," said Sarkis, who also owns the Back Bay Restaurant Group.

"You've got somebody very experienced, and someone with a national reputation, and somebody who can get the job done," he said. "We feel we're the most viable site around."

Trump declined requests for comment, as did Fields and Suffolk Downs officials.

Patrick filed legislation in October that would license one resort casino in each of three separate regions - Western Massachusetts, Southeastern Massachusetts, and metropolitan Boston. His proposal faces a stiff fight in the State House, where Speaker Salvatore DiMasi has expressed skepticism and has not set dates for hearings.

The Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce announced Friday that it is commissioning a study, expected to be completed early next year, of the social and economic impact of Patrick's plan.

Much of the speculation about casino sites has focused on the state's existing racetracks, which are located in communities already accepting of gambling. Wonderland has held casino discussions with a wide number of investors, including the Aquinnah Wampanoag Tribe of Martha's Vineyard. This would allow Wonderland to get a leg up by partnering with a Massachusetts-based Indian tribe, which gets special preference under Patrick's proposal.

Wonderland officials have also had discussions with officials from Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun, and the Seminole Tribe of Florida. Those tribes would not qualify for preferential treatment under Patrick's plan, but they all are looking to invest profits from their existing casino operations.

Discussions have been ongoing for nearly a year between Sarkis and Fields over a partnership between Wonderland and Suffolk Downs, which are just 2 miles apart. Several legislators have said an agreement would allow the owners at the two tracks to focus on the bill's passage instead of on battling one another.

Twice they've come close to signing a deal, and Sarkis said he and Fields agreed on the terms about a month ago, but other Suffolk officials did not want to sign because they thought it was too generous to Sarkis.

Sarkis would not disclose the terms of the deal, but previous discussions have involved bringing Sarkis into a casino development at Suffolk, while tearing down the Wonderland track and redeveloping that site, possibly as a hotel or something unrelated to the casino at Suffolk.

Officials at both Suffolk and Wonderland say a deal between them is still possible.

Officials at Wonderland, which is located along a section of Route 1A in Revere, argue that a casino and hotel would complement existing plans to revitalize Revere Beach. The track is several hundred yards from the beach, but Wonderland officials say they would build a massive boardwalk to connect the property to the waterfront.

Wonderland has a much smaller plot of land - 36 acres at Wonderland compared with 163 acres at Suffolk - and Suffolk also has an aggressive lobbying team and support from Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino.

The roots of the relationship between Trump and Fields stretches back to about 15 years ago, when Fields began working as manager for Trump's former wife, Marla Maples, who had a budding Broadway career and a new relationship with the celebrity businessman.

In the late 1990s, Fields and Trump began looking to partner with the Seminole Tribe of Florida to build two massive casino resorts in Tampa and Hollywood, Fla. Trump eventually backed out when told that he would not be able to install Las Vegas-style slot machines.

Fields split off and partnered with a Baltimore-based real estate firm. After several years of lucrative returns from the casinos, Trump sued Fields, contending he pilfered his plans and misled the Seminole Tribe to believe he was still working for Trump.

Matt Viser can be reached at maviser@globe.com.

[shockingboston]

I do not know if this exist, but it could be something exciting and different for the Revere or Suffolk down Area:

A Casino with an inside Race track (for with either dogs or horses).

I would go to see something like that!!