Somerville Soccer Stadium

[chumbolly]

From the Herald:


Revolution?s the goal: Somerville talks stadium with Krafts
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Thursday, August 2, 2007 - Updated: 08:18 AM EST

Somerville is emerging as a contender to land what could be the Boston area?s next big major league sports stadium.
Major League Soccer?s New England Revolution and Somerville officials have held preliminary discussions about building a 20,000-plus seat soccer stadium on a site not far from Charlestown, Mayor Joseph Curtatone confirmed.
The 100-acre tract of vacant lots, industrial buildings and rail lines off Innerbelt Road near Interstate 93 has long been targeted by Somerville for redevelopment.
The talks come roughly a year after the Revolution - part of the Kraft family?s sports and business empire that includes the New England Patriots [team stats] - began searching for a stadium site. Robert Kraft recently attended an event held by the Somerville mayor, though Curtatone contends the visit was unrelated to the stadium interest.


?We have had very preliminary inquiries and conversations,? Curtatone said. ?It?s exciting to think that an organization like the New England Revolution and Kraft family would be interested in Somerville, but we are not surprised.?
A new Revs soccer stadium could have between 20,000 and 25,000 seats and cost anywhere from $50 million to $200 million to build, based on other new stadiums Major League Soccer has built around the country.
These stadiums are specifically designed for soccer, with fewer seats than big football stadiums, like Gillette Stadium, where the Revs play now.
They also often double as concert venues, one local sports executive says. With a central, urban location like Somerville, the Krafts would immediately become players in the local concert industry and a powerful competitor to the suburban Tweeter Center, which is not far from Gillette Stadium.
The Krafts? interest in Somerville comes after inquiries in Boston as well.
A site in Roxbury targeted by City Hall for redevelopment - near the Ruggles T Station - was for a time considered by some local real estate executives and city officials to have potential as a stadium site. But City Hall recently awarded that tract of land to a nonprofit looking to build an arts complex.
Kraft family executives a few years ago also examined land at a Boston development site near Chinatown.
?We are still talking with a number of communities,? said Brian Bilello, the Revs? chief operating officer. ?Obviously Somerville is one of those communities.?


Personally, I think this is a really, really good idea.

[KentXie]

And while their at it, make it so it can support the minor league baseball stadium they are proposing in Charlestown. They can use the soccer stadium for both.

[Ron Newman]

I doubt it. Combined baseball-football stadiums have gone out of favor, and most have been demolished. A combined baseball-soccer stadium would probably have the same drawbacks. The field dimensions just aren't very compatible. Also, MLS and minor league baseball play during the same months of the year.

[BosDevelop]

From the Herald:
They also often double as concert venues, one local sports executive says. With a central, urban location like Somerville, the Krafts would immediately become players in the local concert industry and a powerful competitor to the suburban Tweeter Center, which is not far from Gillette Stadium.

This is the most exciting part of this article. Those who patron the Tweeter Center frequently know how much of a disaster it is from the sound (forget about hearing a concert on the lawn) to getting out of the parking lot after a show. Any venue that can compete with the Tweeter Center and is closer than 45 min from Boston sounds like a good idea to me.

[czsz]

A new T-accessible concert location? Well, sure. But it seems redundant with Gilette infrastructurally. Won't this just mean both stadia will sit empty more often than they would if the Pats and Revs played in the same one? I'm straining to see the compelling new need for this.

[saltbox]

not sure how many fellow soccer fans are out there. but this is a very exciting time for american soccer fans considering the arrival of becks, the boom in soccer-specific stadiums, and the rising status of american soccer in the international circuit!

[Somerville Guy]

In order to build on 100 acres in this site and not disturb the rail lines, it would require a massive eminent domain taking of maybe 20-30 companies some of which are fairly large in their own right like UPS or MS walker and MGH. The job loss would be massive in comparison to the jobs created for a part time soccer venue. I also remember reading that 70 Inner belt was just rented to a router/server company that plans on making a substantial investment in that building and would seem to want to stay put for sometime.

On a Somerville website it?s been suggested that this space would be better used to create bio-tech and other higher end uses. Somerville always has and always will have Cambridge envy and with projects like stadiums and megaplex theaters it will not be on a par with our richer neighbors to the south anytime soon.
.

[BostonSkyGuy]

A new T-accessible concert location? Well, sure. But it seems redundant with Gilette infrastructurally. Won't this just mean both stadia will sit empty more often than they would if the Pats and Revs played in the same one? I'm straining to see the compelling new need for this.

Soccer is horrible at Gilette. The stadium is too large for soccer and with the American soccer crowds being smaller than what the capacity for these large football stadiums hold--the atmosphere is brutal. I think the average crowd in the MLS was 16,000+ last year and that doesn't translate well into a 68,000 seat football stadium.

In Chicago, they built a soccer specific stadium that seats 20,000 for soccer and 28,000 for concerts. It's supposed to be one of the best places in the US to watch a soccer game. Here's a link to the Chicago Fire's official site for the stadium specs: http://web.mlsnet.com/t100/stadium/ I do find it hard to believe that it only cost $1.7 million to build, but if that's the case then I'd love to see what the Krafts could build for something like $10 million.

As for the football stadium seeing less action, that's the case for most NFL stadiums and there really isn't anything you can do about it, unless they open it up for more concerts. It's funny how they spend close to a billion dollars on these stadiums to host (their primary function) 8 NFL games a year. It's the owners money though and if they didn't make it back, they wouldn't do it.

[nico]

If only the Krafts could've gotten their football stadium built in the city...I hate going to Foxborough.

[smw2340]

The "turf management system" was only $1.7 million. The total stadium was in excess of $100 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Park_%28Bridgeview%29


A new T-accessible concert location? Well, sure. But it seems redundant with Gilette infrastructurally. Won't this just mean both stadia will sit empty more often than they would if the Pats and Revs played in the same one? I'm straining to see the compelling new need for this.

Soccer is horrible at Gilette. The stadium is too large for soccer and with the American soccer crowds being smaller than what the capacity for these large football stadiums hold--the atmosphere is brutal. I think the average crowd in the MLS was 16,000+ last year and that doesn't translate well into a 68,000 seat football stadium.

In Chicago, they built a soccer specific stadium that seats 20,000 for soccer and 28,000 for concerts. It's supposed to be one of the best places in the US to watch a soccer game. Here's a link to the Chicago Fire's official site for the stadium specs: http://web.mlsnet.com/t100/stadium/ I do find it hard to believe that it only cost $1.7 million to build, but if that's the case then I'd love to see what the Krafts could build for something like $10 million.

As for the football stadium seeing less action, that's the case for most NFL stadiums and there really isn't anything you can do about it, unless they open it up for more concerts. It's funny how they spend close to a billion dollars on these stadiums to host (their primary function) 8 NFL games a year. It's the owners money though and if they didn't make it back, they wouldn't do it.

[BosDevelop]

A new T-accessible concert location? Well, sure. But it seems redundant with Gilette infrastructurally. Won't this just mean both stadia will sit empty more often than they would if the Pats and Revs played in the same one? I'm straining to see the compelling new need for this.

this new proposed stadium and Gillette will not compete for the same concerts. The new stadium will seat somewhere around 15,000-20,000 for concerts whereas Gillette is 3-4 times that size and only draws mega-concerts (about 4 or 5 of them a year). This new stadium has the potential to compete with the Tweeter Center for all the summer's touring concert acts (usually 20-30 or more a summer). and those who go to the Tweeter Center frequently for concerts know that it leaves a lot to be desired for a concert venue from the sound, the parking lot situation after the show and location. There is no reason to be having concerts in the TD BankNorth Garden in the summer time yet there are several of them and I would imagine that the promoters who do those shows, would rather have them outside. I believe there is a market in Boston for outdoor concerts that are too large for the Bank of America Pavilion.

[BostonSkyGuy]

[quote="smw2340"]The "turf management system" was only $1.7 million. The total stadium was in excess of $100 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Park_%28Bridgeview%29


Ah, okay I knew that it couldn't have only been $1.7 million but based on the write-up from the team's website it had me thinking that.

Here is it from the Chicago Fire's own website (link posted in my original post) "The stadium opened its doors on June 11, 2006 when the Chicago Fire played its first MLS match on the $1.7 million dollar MLS regulation sized soccer field." Pretty misleading.

[lndscpr]

If only the Krafts could've gotten their football stadium built in the city...I hate going to Foxborough.

where would people tailgate in boston???

[palindrome]

Isn't this just north of north point?

[briv]

Stadiums are neighborhood killers. Both this and the Charlestown proposals should be nixed.

[Ron Newman]

Wrigley Field seems to be a counterexample to your statement. A real neighborhood seems to be gradually developing around Fenway as well.

[briv]

A real neighborhood seems to be gradually developing around Fenway as well.

Only took a hundred years...and the area is still absolutely abysmal.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Well, it's not like an industrial park and a 4 lane highway next to another highway are exactly the best neighborhoods. If you had to put a stadium anywhere I'd say these are your best bets.

[czsz]

Stadiums are neighborhood killers.

Football stadia more than any, which is why New Yorkers so vigorously opposed plans for one on the West Side of Manhattan (and why I'm glad a Patriots stadium was never built in Boston...underutilized space like that is best kept out in Foxboro). A small stadium with frequent use and concert value near transit might be a boon to any neighborhood, though. The Bank of America Pavillion is doing more for the Seaport right now than anything other than the ICA.

[kennedy]

American soccer is pointless. American sports fans like two things-lots of action, lots of goal scoring. Between the two start up leagues going on in the country, lacrosse seems a lot more likely of a sport to build a new stadium for. The Boston Cannons have the highest attendance out of all MLL teams, and they play out of Harvard Stadium. Maybe they should build one?

Stadium killers? I think not. Fenway is becoming a great place to live. Stadiums can make or break a neighborhood. If done right, they make it. In a sports city like Boston it would be easy, especially for Kraft. He's got resources to pull in sports bars, hotels, and other commercial uses around the stadium. TD Banknorth Garden didn't kill the neighborhood, even though it's mostly surrounded by highway. There are a lot of good sports bars and condos near it. The Archmont or Avenel or A something or other ones are nice. I'll stop, if it goes too long people won't read.

[vanshnookenraggen]

American soccer is pointless.

Thanks for that, it really helps the conversation.

[palindrome]

American soccer is pointless. American sports fans like two things-lots of action, lots of goal scoring. Between the two start up leagues going on in the country, lacrosse seems a lot more likely of a sport to build a new stadium for. The Boston Cannons have the highest attendance out of all MLL teams, and they play out of Harvard Stadium. Maybe they should build one?


Maybe both teams can play in the stadium? :?: :wink:

[BostonSkyGuy]

American soccer is pointless.

That's your opinion. I find opinon based generalizations pointless.

American sports fans like two things-lots of action, lots of goal scoring.

The NHL has lots of action doesn't it? It's been opened up and scoring is higher than it's been in years. Tell me, how relevant is the NHL across the country? Did you see the ratings for the Stanley Cup finals?

When you generalize you look like an idiot. I'm an American sports fan and because I'm a "SPORTS" fan I can appreciate more than lots of goals and "lots of action". You must not be a Red Sox/baseball fan then because there's not a ton of action in a baseball game is there?


Between the two start up leagues going on in the country, lacrosse seems a lot more likely of a sport to build a new stadium for.

Really? How many lacrosse teams have their own stadiums, built specifically for them? Does MLL have their own television deal? Their own radio deals? If not, it hardly makes sense to build a stadium specifically for a sport that doesn't have major revenue and backing behind it.

The Boston Cannons have the highest attendance out of all MLL teams, and they play out of Harvard Stadium. Maybe they should build one?

How many fans do they draw? I can gaurentee it's not more than the Revolution draw to Gilette which in itself might be the worst venue in the MLS to watch a game.

It's clear to see that you dislike soccer and are a fan of lacrosse. Your favoritism however bleeds through the logic that is clear when you're comparing the two leagues.

[smw2340]

I went to a Revolution game recently and was disappointed by a few things:
1) Long drive to Gillette Stadium. Would love to have a stadium in the Boston area, especially at a public transit site.
2) Tickets were only sold to 1/2 of the lower bowl area, which made the stadium feel really empty, despite there being 14k fans at the game. They only sell tickets to the side that the TV cameras are pointed at.
3) The Revs play on the synthetic field turf, which I think is awful for soccer. Its fine for football since most of the action involves running without the ball touching the ground. But I think that surface is terrible for soccer where the ball is on the ground most of the time.

[czsz]

Isn't there commuter rail service to Gillette?

[Ron Newman]

Not for Revolution games. The T tried running trains, and then later tried running buses instead, and there apparently wasn't enough ridership for either.

[kennedy]

American soccer is pointless.

That's your opinion. I find opinon based generalizations pointless.

American sports fans like two things-lots of action, lots of goal scoring.

The NHL has lots of action doesn't it? It's been opened up and scoring is higher than it's been in years. Tell me, how relevant is the NHL across the country? Did you see the ratings for the Stanley Cup finals?

When you generalize you look like an idiot. I'm an American sports fan and because I'm a "SPORTS" fan I can appreciate more than lots of goals and "lots of action". You must not be a Red Sox/baseball fan then because there's not a ton of action in a baseball game is there?


Between the two start up leagues going on in the country, lacrosse seems a lot more likely of a sport to build a new stadium for.

Really? How many lacrosse teams have their own stadiums, built specifically for them? Does MLL have their own television deal? Their own radio deals? If not, it hardly makes sense to build a stadium specifically for a sport that doesn't have major revenue and backing behind it.

The Boston Cannons have the highest attendance out of all MLL teams, and they play out of Harvard Stadium. Maybe they should build one?

How many fans do they draw?


1. I'm a fan of American soccer. I'd rather watch FIFA.

2. I can't lie, I like lacrosse more. But I'm also saying, as a country, Americans want lots of scoring, and lots of action (contact, whole team running). Comparing MLL to the NHL is a good point. In terms of scoring, MLL games have 10-20 points a game average. NHL, 3-7. In a soccer game, at a given time, 4-5 players are running, the rest are jogging up a giant field. Lacrosse has a smaller field, with a much faster pace.

3. MLL has multiple TV deals, with national networks (ESPN 2) and regional networks (COX in Rhode Island, FSN in Boston).

4. The Boston Cannons draw average 10,000 fans fer game, up to 12,000 for the MLL All Star game, which is often in Boston because the MLL is HQ'ed here.

5. Your right, many teams don't have their own fields. That's why I was so strong on my point that the Cannons need their own field. The Chicago Machine play from the aforementioned Toyota Park. Denver shares with the Invesco Field at Mile High (which doesn't work). Long Island plays at a suburban athletic complex. LA has the same type of deal. My point is, as the league leader, Boston should set an example by building their own field. I have no problem with them sharing it with the Revs.

[BostonSkyGuy]

1. I'm a fan of American soccer. I'd rather watch FIFA.

Well technically American Soccer (MLS) is FIFA. FIFA is the governing body of soccer. FIFA has rules and guidelines that each league follows and abides by and being under the FIFA "umbrella" if you will, is important for any league to be successful.

The reason the MLS is even around is because in order to bring the World Cup to the U.S. in '94, they wanted America to have a FIFA sanctioned "tier one" type league and build up interest in the game which they've done a good job doing, although it's not as big now as I think they hoped it'd be by now.

I take it you meant that you're a fan of the MLS but would rather watch the other leagues like the Premiership (English) or Serie A (Italian). To be honest, I'm more of a fan of the Serie A than the MLS, with my "main" team that I follow being from that league. The MLS is enjoyable to watch from time to time but I can't bring myself to go to a game at Gilette for all the reasons SMW listed.

MLL has multiple TV deals, with national networks (ESPN 2) and regional networks (COX in Rhode Island, FSN in Boston).

I know that it's televised, I guess my point was that the revenue generated from the TV deals isn't great enough to sustain building new stadiums. If the owners want to grow the sport, I take it your stance would be that they start with lacrosse specific stadiums, especially in the Hub (no pun intended) of the MLL: Boston.

I don't know though that it'd work to share a stadium with the Revs simply because the size of the field the sports are played on are significantly different. Plus they play at the same time, so the field would really take a beating.

10,000 a game? I didn't think it was close to that number. I had read that in most places it was around two to four thousand max. I've watched some games on TV where it didn't even seem close to those numbers.

I'm not against MLL or lacrosse at all (I was actually a decent lax player in HS), I just think it's still at a stage where the sport needs to grow in order for the league to grow into what it could be. Soccer is almost easier to build a league for in the U.S. (and you're seeing it's not "easy" at all) because it's popular in other countries outside here. Lacrosse is primarly a U.S. sport so I don't know if that hurts or helps it in terms of growth.

[kennedy]

Yeah, less popular teams get 2-4 a game. The revs got 9,995 their last game. league average is around eight. the NCAA champs sold out the the ravens NFL stadium this year. and the mll started a few years ago.

[justin]

When you generalize you look like an idiot...
I agree, that's always true.

[smw2340]

I was a little surprised to find out how many fans attended the most recent Boston Cannons game, but I bet it helps that they place right in the city.

"...Boston overcame that early deficit and rallied for a 17-16 victory over the Lizards in an Eastern Conference game in front of 9,229 fans at Harvard Stadium."
http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/news/pressreleases/index.html?article_id=742

Last Revolution game had attendance of 12,618
http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=26666&pcid=115

[jass]

The revs have one of the lower attendances in the league, it doesnt help how far away and inaccessible Gilette is.

A stadium eneds to be in the city. Toronto built one downtown and they sell out 20,000 every single game. Meanwhile, other teams who built in the suburbs (Pizza Hut Park for Dallas) dont sell out but do a respectable 15,000.

New York red bulls are building a larger stadium, 25-30,000.


Revs need to hurry up, because soon theyll be the only team in the league without a stadium. Anywhere in the city is fine, as long as it has subway access.

(And it better have a damn roof)

[Ron Newman]

Why should it have a roof?

[BostonSkyGuy]

Why should it have a roof?

Yeah, I'm going to echo Ron's statements: why does it need a roof?

In my opinion like American football, soccer was meant to be played in the elements. If it's raining, you have to adjust same as in the NFL or NCAA football. The roof is really just for the crowd since soccer games aren't cancelled because of the rain, only for lightning (as they should be).

I wouldn't mind having the pitch (field) open and the seats covered so that the fans don't get wet, because that would keep the integrity of the game as well as have an amenity for the fans.

And you're 100% right Jass: the Revs are one of the premier franchises in the MLS right now, and that's not going to be the case if they don't build a new soccer specific stadium. Gilette is great for the Patriots don't get me wrong, but for soccer it could be the worst venue in the MLS. I don't care if the stadium is in Boston but it needs to be some where that has access to public transportation. How many college kids from BC/BU/Northeastern/etc. would jump on the T to go see a Revs game? I'm guessing more than would be able to drive out to Foxboro to see them.

The question becomes does Bob Kraft want to take the Revolution out of his new "Patriots Place" and leave it solely for the Pats. Not that the Revolution are major parts of it anyways, but I assume that those 15,000+ people going to the Revs games would shop/eat/etc. at those places as well and that's loss of revenue from that aspect of it. I still don't see how they can afford not to build a soccer specific stadium some where in or around the city. It makes sense both financially and in terms of growing the league and game in this country.

[jass]

No, not a roof over a field. Usually soccer stadiums have open fields to let the grass grow. A system to have the grass roll out would be too expensive.

However the seating area needs a roof. Not only for viewer comfort from rain or sun, but for atmosphere as it keeps the noise in.

It also looks much more professional. Compare the Red Bull Park (under construction)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/XjfoOv95.jpg

with the first MLS stadium, Columbus Crew Stadium
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Columbus_crew_stadium_mls_allstars_2005.jpg

which in my opinion looks like an amateur park.


The problem is, the Krafts are cheap. The revs are one of the only team to pay their team under the salary cap (around 2 million for the entire team). Meanwhile most of the other teams are using their designated player slot to bring in players who make more than the entire Revolution roster.

While their cheapness hasnt hurt performance, I hope it doesnt result in a cheap stadium.

[underground]

I don't know much about the financial situation of the Revs, but I have to dispute your assertion that Kraft is cheap. He personally financed the construction of a stadium that is among the very best in the NFL (excluding the grass fiasco of last season), putting him in a small minority of owners who have not used public funds.

On another note, a long commercial with a lot of computer animations about the new Patriot's Place development ran during the pre-season game on Friday. If anyone missed it, I bet they'll run it again during the next game.

[BostonSkyGuy]

I don't know much about the financial situation of the Revs, but I have to dispute your assertion that Kraft is cheap.

I'll back Jass on this one, Kraft is cheap. I understand he personally financed Gilette stadium. However the Revolution have one of (if not the lowest) payrolls in MLS. They haven't used their designated player slot on a foreign player yet, which begs the question: what are they waiting for?

The way the Revs are scoring right now (see: rarely) they could use to bring in a striker or a creating mid-fielder with their designated player slot. A guy like that could make this team the clear-cut favorite for the MLS Cup. Kraft is too cheap to bring in a guy with the exemption because they're going to cost a million or two.

[smw2340]

It also looks much more professional. Compare the Red Bull Park (under construction)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/XjfoOv95.jpg

with the first MLS stadium, Columbus Crew Stadium
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Columbus_crew_stadium_mls_allstars_2005.jpg

which in my opinion looks like an amateur park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer-specific_stadium

Estimated difference in price between Red Bull Park and Columbus Crew Stadium is $191.5 million. That is a large chunk of extra change to spend on an MLS team

[Equilibria]

Last I checked, the Revs were on top of the Eastern Conference, or pretty close to it, without shelling out millions for a celebrity who doesn't play. Of course the Galaxy aren't typical in their use of the designated player slot, but I see Kraft running this team the same way he runs his other one.

Until this past off-season, the Pats were among the stingiest teams in the NFL and have three SB championships to show for it. Maybe Kraft just figures the same model would work here...

Besides, if he were really cheap, he wouldn't be talking about a soccer-specific stadium in the first place.

[BostonSkyGuy]

Last I checked, the Revs were on top of the Eastern Conference, or pretty close to it, without shelling out millions for a celebrity who doesn't play.

I'm not talking about a David Beckham. Beckham isn't even a top 20 player anymore. He's been brought in more for publicity than for what he's going to bring in terms of talent. Although while not top-20 in the world, in the MLS he's probably on of the best players in the league.

It doesn't matter where the Revs are in the standings. If they want to win the MLS cup they're going to have to spend some money.


Until this past off-season, the Pats were among the stingiest teams in the NFL and have three SB championships to show for it. Maybe Kraft just figures the same model would work here...

It could, but it won't. They already lost Clint Dempsey who was a top 3-5 player in the MLS. If they had Dempsey right now, I wouldn't mention them not using their exemption slot at all. They'd also be a MUCH, MUCH better team with Dempsey. Granted the US soccer federation probably wanted Dempsey to get some European experience to make his game better and the MLS got like $4 million for him in transfer funds, but I still would have preferred to see them go all out to keep him.

Besides, if he were really cheap, he wouldn't be talking about a soccer-specific stadium in the first place.

That doesn't make sense. He really has no choice but to build a soccer-specific stadium. Every other team in the league either is planning to build one, has one built, or is in the process of building one. The Revs don't make much money at all in terms of ticket sales. If they build a soccer specific stadium it could do a lot in terms of making it more appealing as a "hot ticket". Look at the Bruins, everyone bashes them (and they deserve it) and no one goes to their games, it's not a "cool" place to go, it's not something the casual fan even cares about. Last season the Celtics were brutal yet they still had a lot of people going to games, it wasn't by any means a "hot" ticket, but (for whatever reason) people had interest in going. I think a new stadium could do the same.

Kraft had to build Gilette by the way, the way football was becoming it made more sense to build something with almost all your own money (rather than getting help with taxes) and then for years making money off that investment. Gilette is a gold mine for the Krafts, and will be even more so with Patriots Place.

[underground]

Four points; 1) I wasn't aware that you could improve on 1st place; and 2) financing the stadium on one's own was clearly not the only viable option, seeing as how the vast majority of stadiums built at that time were publicly financed; 3) the Patriot's reputation for cheapness is based on the opinions of Boston's horrible bullpen of sports journalists who are still pissed off that the Pat's wouldn't over-pay to keep Malloy, Bledsoe, Law, or any other of their favorite washed-up old players, and who fail to look at the contracts given to Brady, Seymour, and Colvin as counter-evidence; and 4) Kraft has clearly shown that he doesn't skimp when it comes to buildings, as Gillette is at the for front of cutting-edge stadiums, and is soon to be enveloped by a massive development project.

[BosDevelop]

Calling Bob Kraft cheap is absolutely absurd. If you want to say that he is cheap when it comes to the Revolution payroll that may be so. But if you had the first clue how many millions Bob and his wife donate to countless charities you would never say the man is cheap. If he was really cheap, he would have moved the Pats to Hartford where he got a sweetheart deal and instead he chose to stay in Foxboro and spend millions of his own money. Just because he MAY have instructed the Rev's front office not to spend millions on an overpriced foreign player (we don't even know if it was Bob Kraft himself who made that decision) doesn't mean he is a cheap man. His actions in this community, both in his business endeavors and personal life, in the last 10-12 years totally contradict that assumption.

[BostonSkyGuy]

Four points; 1) I wasn't aware that you could improve on 1st place;

Really? I guess the Red Sox couldn't have used another bat at the trade deadline either. They're in 1st place, I guess they couldn't improve. You're right, why bother to improve when you're in first place. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, he should just stop trying to make money. What a ridiculous statement that you can't improve a 1st place team.

They do lead the league in goals scored, but they score them in bunches (much like the Sox score runs) and struggle against some of the better defensive teams to open up the field and create. If they used an exemption on a MF who could create on the run, they'd be a lock to win the MLS Cup.

4) Kraft has clearly shown that he doesn't skimp when it comes to buildings, as Gillette is at the for front of cutting-edge stadiums, and is soon to be enveloped by a massive development project.

Doesn't anyone realize he HAD NO CHOICE but to build a new stadium? It doesn't matter that he had to pump his own money into it, it's going to make him more money than he knows what to do with. If he kept the old Foxboro stadium, he wouldn't be maximizing revenue. Gilette added seats and more importantly added luxury boxes and suites which companies shell out HUGE money for. The Patriots could have stayed in Foxboro and made a little profit from their stadium, and made some more from the NFL Television deals. Or they could have done the smart thing and do exactly what they did and build a stadium that would maximize revenue. I bet the Patriots in terms of both Patriots games, concerts, and other events held at Gilette make over 100 million a year. The stadium cost what about $800 million to $1 billion dollars? So in 10 years, it pays for itself. The old Foxboro stadium wasn't making even close to that money and so it made business sense to build something new and it's great for the fans as well because it's a better place to watch a game.

[BostonSkyGuy]

Calling Bob Kraft cheap is absolutely absurd. If you want to say that he is cheap when it comes to the Revolution payroll that may be so.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Then the legions of Bob Kraft lovers came running from wherever rock they stay under talking about the Patriots moves, charity, and whatever else. I'm talking about him being cheap when it comes to the Revolution. You can't deny that.

Just because he MAY have instructed the Rev's front office not to spend millions on an overpriced foreign player (we don't even know if it was Bob Kraft himself who made that decision) doesn't mean he is a cheap man.

I wish people who didn't know anything about soccer would just shut the fuck up and either watch the games or read about the game. Overpriced Foreign player? Yeah bringing in Juan Pablo Angel like the NY Red Bulls and having him score 10 goals (so far) for $2 million a year was a horrible decision. Beckham was a publicity stunt by the league. Blanco on the Fire has only played in a few games, but if he plays anything like he's capable of he'll score 10+ goals a year in the MLS. I hardly see how adding guys who will be in the top 10 in goal scoring is a bad idea. Not all of these guys are going to cost millions either.

Kraft has to have made the decision not to shell out money to a designated player. What manager would decide "nah, I don't think I'll use a million or so dollars to improve my team, I think I'll just keep the roster as is." Please. The Revolution don't even want to pay Shalrie Joseph who is one of the best players in the league. They want to get a bunch of young guys who cost little money and keep paying Taylor Twellman a decent chunk and see what happens. So far it's been working but they lost Dempsey, and if they lose Joseph this team won't be in 1st place next year and people will be asking where the hell the money is being spent.


His actions in this community, both in his business endeavors and personal life, in the last 10-12 years totally contradict that assumption.

Well, that's great. I applaud him for his effort to give back and he's done a great job in doing so. Just like the Red Sox ownership and Celtics ownership.

When it comes to the Revolution he's not spending as much money as a lot of other teams and for a few million (if that) he could have improved this team to the extent to be pretty much a lock for the MLS cup.

[underground]

The argument here isn't over whether or not Kraft is skimping on the Revs payroll; that's a given. The argument is over whether his skimping on the Revs payroll is a sign that he will skimp on the new stadium. It's also a given that Kraft absolutely had to rebuild Foxboro Stadium. However, the point being made is that he personally financed it when he could have demanded public funding lest he move the team to Hartford. The Revs payroll aside, I think if we look at Kraft's work in totality, not piecemeal, we have to be optimistic about his chances of building an awesome, soccer-specific stadium in Somerville.

[stellarfun]

For a Forbes profile of the Krafts see:
http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2005/0919/122_2.html

The Patriots are ranked as the second most valuable NFL franchise. They are either the third or fourth most valuable sports franchise in the whole world. The Redskins and Manchester United are ranked higher
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_New-England-Patriots_307338.html

The Pats have a much higher team valuation than the Red Sox.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/33/07mlb_Boston-Red-Sox_330700.html

No U.S. soccer franchise makes it into the top rank of soccer team valuations.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/34/biz_07soccer_Soccer-Team-Valuations_MetroArea.html

The Celtics are ranked 13th in NBA team value.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_Boston-Celtics_326173.html

The Bruins are the 6th most valuable NFL franchise.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/31/biz_06nhl_Boston-Bruins_313364.html

[smw2340]

The Bruins are a prime example of how success does not linearly translate into value.

[jass]

The argument here isn't over whether or not Kraft is skimping on the Revs payroll; that's a given. The argument is over whether his skimping on the Revs payroll is a sign that he will skimp on the new stadium. It's also a given that Kraft absolutely had to rebuild Foxboro Stadium. However, the point being made is that he personally financed it when he could have demanded public funding lest he move the team to Hartford. The Revs payroll aside, I think if we look at Kraft's work in totality, not piecemeal, we have to be optimistic about his chances of building an awesome, soccer-specific stadium in Somerville.

Thats exactly it. I dont want to talk about the Patriots or charity, just the Revs.

Based on the revs payroll, and the NFL line during revs games (exception: Beckham game), Kraft is cherap when it comes to the team.

On top of that, hes going to be one of the last teams with a stadium.

Im just hoping this doesnt mean hes going to set up a highschool stadium and call it a day.

[BostonSkyGuy]

Thats exactly it. I dont want to talk about the Patriots or charity, just the Revs.

Exactly. I was saying he was cheap in the context of the conversation of the Revolution. Then people come running and posting Forbes values for the Patriots, and all this. Who cares? We're talking about wanting to spend money on the Revolution which includes a soccer specific stadium in or around the city.

Personally-- I believe that even though he may not spend as much on the players and other areas as he should, the Krafts aren't going to build a shoddy stadium just for the sake of having a new stadium for the Revs. If anything, he'll go the opposite route and build one of the best venues in the league.

[disturbanist]

I was just thinking about this the other day, and I really hope something eventually comes of this.

I agree with BostonSkyGuy...Kraft is a businessman and if he's going to build a new stadium, it's going to be a great attraction. Shitty attractions don't make money. I think Revolution attendance would increase if they played in Boston where it is accessible by public transportation. I would go to every single game of the year if I could just hop on the T.

I think 25,000 - 30,000 would be a good size. If soccer games like Brazil vs Venezuela can attract 54,000 fans like there were at Gillette last week - that might be an incentive to build a little bigger than other MLS stadiums. Although I do hate to see half-empty stadiums. Here's a list of soccer- specific stadiums for context:

http://travels.i8.com/hosted_files/ScreenShot002.jpg

[jass]

A note about that chart:

Buck Shaw stadium is a baseball field and is only being used while they get their new park built (2010 I think)

Toyota Park is designed for expansion, to around 25,000 I think.

Colombus had capacity reduced to add in a stage.

DC plays at RFK, and are the only team there, so its really their stadium. They are however planning a new one with capacity around 25,000.


Point is, 25,000 seems to be the sweet spot.

[disturbanist]

It's a tricky thing, predicting future attendance. Half-full stadiums are no fun. But it isn't any fun either when you can't get tickets because the games are sold out and adding additional seats is tricky (Fenway Park). But you're right 25,000 seams like the magic number.

[BostonSkyGuy]

It's a tricky thing, predicting future attendance. Half-full stadiums are no fun. But it isn't any fun either when you can't get tickets because the games are sold out and adding additional seats is tricky (Fenway Park). But you're right 25,000 seams like the magic number.


I'd rather have a team/stadium where it's difficult to get tickets rather than a team where you can just walk up to the box-office and grab however many seats you want. This generally means the team is good and the stadium is decent (even historic in Fenway's case)

Being a huge soccer fan myself, I think for the MLS 20,000-30,000 is a good number. The Revs draw pretty good way out in Foxborough so I don't see them having a problem filling 20,000+ seats in an urban area with access to public transportation.

When you have better talent coming in for exhibition games (say Chelsea, AC Milan, Juventus, etc.) during one of their tours and Boston is part of that, you can always play the Games at Gillette because you know they're going to sell out even with 50,000+ seats.

[disturbanist]

I'd rather have a team/stadium where it's difficult to get tickets rather than a team where you can just walk up to the box-office and grab however many seats you want. This generally means the team is good and the stadium is decent (even historic in Fenway's case)

I guess I have to agree with you there...that's the sign of a healthy franchise. Plus there's the psychological aspect of wanting what's hard to get, e.g. tickets to a sold out game. That keeps current fans interested and helps to gain new fans.

I long for the day when Revolution games look like this:

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v288/29/71/1801553/n1801553_36182165_3497.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v288/29/71/1801553/n1801553_36182172_4714.jpg

[jass]

I'd rather have a team/stadium where it's difficult to get tickets rather than a team where you can just walk up to the box-office and grab however many seats you want. This generally means the team is good and the stadium is decent (even historic in Fenway's case)


I disagree. I think theyre both too extreme. In the Red Sox case, you either commit before the season, or visit a scalper. Ditto with the pats.

In the revs case you can always get a ticket, any seat type, always.

I think a team in which you can get tickets a week in advance is good.

For the revs case, this would mean 25,000. Some games (LA, Tornto, NY) will sell out. Other games (Kansas, Salt Lake) will not. Thats a good balance.


Unfortunately, baseball is moving towards smaller stadiums like Fenway, in which they will always sell out while charging extremely high prices. I think Kraf will aim for the same. 20,000 with high prices.

[Lrfox]

It's actually relatively easy to get Sox tickets a week ahead of time through the Red Sox box office at face value. They always release a bunch of seats just before a series and they don't go away instantly. check redsox.com within a week of the game you want to go to and you'll be able to get them without a problem (unless of course it's a Yankees series). I can't say the same thing for Pat's tickets.

I don't thing difficulty getting tickets is a bad thing though. If it's easy to get tickets, people tend to take it for granted. If it's difficult, every time you go to that event, it's a big deal. There are 82 regular season Red Sox home games and every single one is a huge event for the fans there. The same cannot be said for fans of the Rays or Jays. There is also a huge correlation between the quality of the product on the field and ease of access to tickets.

[Ron Newman]

> There is also a huge correlation between the quality of the product on the field and ease of access to tickets.

Although the Rays seem to be disproving that. They were in first, playing another first-place team (White Sox) and still drew only 13,000 fans.

[Lrfox]

^So true. It amazes me when people fail to support even winning teams. Not to get off topic, but I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that no one expected either team to do well at all this year? Most baseball fans are just waiting for when those teams collapse. (which I believe they both will). Even the Yankees don't sell out all of their games.

[underground]

This might be a little off topic, but I know a lot of us in this forum are arm-chair economists (or at least dabble) and this is a soccer specific thread, so I want to recommend a book I just finished, How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization. Anyone else read this?

[jass]

Inner Belt slated as Somerville's next project

City examines Inner Belt and Brickbottom districts for development

By Jack NicasIb

A professional soccer stadium could be coming to Somerville to jumpstart commercial development in a long-underutilized business district. Last week city officials announced a study, funded by Herb Chambers and the Kraft Group, ?designed to help the City promote economic development in both neighborhoods? of Inner Belt and Brickbottom according to the June 23 release.


Last year, Somerville officials and the Kraft Group, owners of the New England Patriots and Revolution, held preliminary discussions about building a Major League Soccer stadium in the Inner Belt. According to the release, that possibility will be examined in the new study, but Lesley Hawkins, spokeswoman for the city, said no formal proposal has been made.

Whether or not the Inner Belt is decided upon as the stadium's destination, the Kraft Group will have a vested interest in the district; they underwrote a portion of the study's expected $200,000 price tag, said Charlie Lord, executive director of the Urban Ecology Institute, the financial facilitators of the operation.

Stacey James, spokesman for the Kraft group, said, ?The Kraft Group has been contacted by officials from multiple municipalities regarding development opportunities. We have had preliminary discussions with Somerville regarding a development project that could potentially include a multi-use soccer stadium.?

Lord said the city is still looking for individual donors because, according to the statement, the only other current investor in the study is auto dealership Herb Chambers. Steve Mackey, CEO of the Somerville Chamber of Commerce, said the company has an existing interest in the district, with a showroom and maintenance facility in Brickbottom and their headquarters and another property in the Inner Belt.

Mayor Joseph A. Curtatone said, ?[Herb Chambers] is one of the best community partners [Somerville] has. He has an interest in the city achieving success, reaching our goals, and realizing our vision.?

The Inner Belt has become an attractive parcel of land after plans to extend the Green Line into Somerville included Brickbottom as a proposed stop.

Rest of article at
http://somervillenews.typepad.com/the_somerville_news/2008/07/inner-belt-slat.html

[Patriots_1228]

hmmm, this is my idea.

dig a ditch and put the field and a lower bowl that seats say, 20,000 there. Make it look nice, and then, if attendence is full within 5 years, add an extra 10,000 above ground, then finish off the stadium. if not, just add some finish touches and call it done.

I know its near impossible because of all the crap it takes to build somthing, but i think otherwise its a good idea.

[jass]

hmmm, this is my idea.

dig a ditch and put the field and a lower bowl that seats say, 20,000 there. Make it look nice, and then, if attendence is full within 5 years, add an extra 10,000 above ground, then finish off the stadium. if not, just add some finish touches and call it done.

I know its near impossible because of all the crap it takes to build somthing, but i think otherwise its a good idea.

Theyre looking at MBTA land, so the stadium would actually have to be on air rights.

[eaalkaline]

wow this area could get really cool if someone can step up to build out Northpoint and the right minds get behind this master planning process to get a multi-use stadium built right next door. hey, it could happen

[Suffolk 83]

oh yea this is gonna happen. when george bush gets reelected. its right around the corner

[cantileverjim]

For what its worth, here are a few artists' renderings of soccer specific stadia of a size and capacity that are likely to what may be proposed for Somerville:

Swedbank Stadion (Sweden)
Capacity: 24,000
http://www.mff.se/swedbankstadion/downloads/images/bild_exterior2.jpg

Artvelde Stadion (Belgium)
Capacity: 22,500
http://www.kaagent.be/fotospecial/071029arteveldestadion/pictures/071029arteveldestadion06.jpg
http://www.kaagent.be/fotospecial/071029arteveldestadion/pictures/071029arteveldestadion03.jpg
http://www.kaagent.be/fotospecial/071029arteveldestadion/pictures/071029arteveldestadion07.jpg

New Memorial Stadium (England)
Capacity: 18,500
http://www.bristolrugby.co.uk/images/content/graphics/NewMem_525x340.jpg

Stade Gaston G?rard (France)
Capacity: 22,000
http://www.dfco.fr/goodies/dfco_stade_jour_1024.jpg

SK Slavia Praha Stadium/Stadion Eden (Czech Republic)
Capacity: 21,000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-HLz3LC378
http://www.stadioneden.cz/data/pictures/SK4N7444.jpg
http://www.stadioneden.cz/data/pictures/SK4N7600.jpg

[BostonSkyGuy]

I really like the Sweedish and Belgian stadiums, but there's no way those are what the Revolution would get in Somerville or East Boston or anywhere on the planet. Those are world class stadiums (even with smaller seating capacities) and the price tag would be too much for an MLS team to dole out.

Look at the English stadium for more of what you could expect should this thing ever get built. Nothing fancy, does the job and has enough seats to accomodate fans.

When the MLS starts learning how to run their teams in terms of getting talented players, I'll get excited about it again. Until then, I'm watching Serie A and the Premiership.

[cantileverjim]

I really like the Swedish and Belgian stadiums, but there's no way those are what the Revolution would get in Somerville or East Boston or anywhere on the planet. Those are world class stadiums (even with smaller seating capacities) and the price tag would be too much for an MLS team to dole out. Look at the English stadium for more of what you could expect should this thing ever get built. Nothing fancy, does the job and has enough seats to accommodate fans. When the MLS starts learning how to run their teams in terms of getting talented players, I'll get excited about it again. Until then, I'm watching Serie A and the Premiership.

For what it's worth, a member of the Revolution front office recently indicated that the Kraft family is prepared to commit $100 million dollars towards a stadium for the Revolution. Granted, that's not nearly enough to build something like the Artveldestadion in Belgium which has a price tag of 100 million Euro. That being said, the DSB Stadion which was built for AZ Alkmaar in the Netherlands was recently completed (2006) for only 38 million Euro, roughly $60 million dollars. It has a capacity of 17,000, the usual good number of luxury boxes and executive seats, etc.:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/DSB_Stadium.jpg

Another example would be Stadion Euroborg where FC Gronigen plays in the Netherlands. Their new ground, only about 3 years old, was built for 29.4 million Euro, or approximately ~$46 million . It has a capacity of 20,000:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2241/2414111687_293e79c027_b.jpg

Finally, the SK Slavia Praha Stadium/Stadion Eden linked in an earlier post and seen in an artist's rendering below cost 40 million Euro to build, that being approx. $63 million:

http://www.permice.slavia.cz/images/uvodni-stranka_v.jpg

In short, the Revolution could certainly find themselves in a world class stadium, albeit a smaller one, for the money the Krafts may be willing to invest.

[Pierce]

100million or no, the bigger obstacle to getting one of these is the atrocious american stadium tastes. Regardless of budget I bet Kraft already has HOK on retainer to do some blocky, ugly, possibly faux-retro pile of bricks and plastic seats.

Gillette Stadium cost over 300 million, enough said

[cantileverjim]

100million or no, the bigger obstacle to getting one of these is the atrocious american stadium tastes. Regardless of budget I bet Kraft already has HOK on retainer to do some blocky, ugly, possibly faux-retro pile of bricks and plastic seats.

I hope to God that the Krafts decide to come up with a design that's a bit different than what's already been produced in terms of MLS stadia. Come up with a design that has a roof covering all seating sections, have the seats angled where they're right on top of the action, and set a new standard in terms of aesthetics.

[JimboJones]

Actually, the Somerville stadium has already been built.

Here's a photo from a recent soccer match:

http://www.vassaeggen.se/bild/EmptyStadium.jpg

[cantileverjim]

Actually, the Somerville stadium has already been built. Here's a photo from a recent soccer match.

Wow, that was constructive :rolleyes:. FWIW, the Revolution are currently averaging 16,494 per home match, and that's easily 3/4 of a stadium with a capacity of 20,000, which would make it look just a bit removed from this:

http://www.stadioneden.cz/data/pictures/SK4N7488.jpg

[12345]

^^^ In Foxboro.

[JimboJones]

I'm sorry; I know I'm a broken record about it. But it was funny!

[Ron Newman]

A map would be helpful, because I can't picture a vacant parcel at Inner Belt of sufficient size to hold the stadium.

[jass]

Ron,

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.374778,-71.076822&spn=0.007799,0.018797&t=k&z=16

The stadium would be built on air rights over the tracks, or a bit north of the MBTA depot where those warehouses are.

They literally mean inner belt, look at the street name

A green line station is planned there.

[tobyjug]

I thought Jimbo had a good one!

It would be more interesting if this soccer stadium could double as a tennis tournament venue. Boston used to be a player in the world of pro tennis.

[disturbanist]

It would be more interesting if this soccer stadium could double as a tennis tournament venue. Boston used to be a player in the world of pro tennis.

I don't think tennis and soccer would work well in the same structure, with the size of the playing areas being extremely different. However, they could do like the Home Depot Center (http://www.homedepotcenter.com/index.php) and build separate soccer and tennis stadiums at the same site.

http://www.eastwestbankclassic.com/images/homedepot_photo.jpg

[tobyjug]

That's a good illustration of your point. I was thinking that you could set up two or three courts side by side straddling the field, with the A matches on the end courts where most of the seating would be.

[Waldorf]

Do we really need another stadium? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just keep the Revs at Gillette and save some of that steel for something more important? What about using Harvard stadium (maybe after a few upgrades)?

[disturbanist]

Half of Major League Soccer?s fourteen teams already play in soccer-specific stadiums. Out of the seven remaining teams, two have stadiums underway and five are in the planning stages, some further ahead than others. The Revolution very well could be the last MLS team playing in a stadium designed for some other sport. I don?t think the Krafts would want to have that distinction for long. The Revs are currently the best team in the MLS and they deserve a world-class stadium.

Here is the rundown of soccer-specific stadiums:

Built Stadiums

Home Depot Center

Home of the LA Galaxy and Chivas USA

Capacity: 27,000

Cost: $150 Million

Opened: 2003

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/180/homedepot2ab2.jpg http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7881/homedepotcenter1lh2.jpg



______________________________________________

Toyota Park

Home of the Chicago Fire

Capacity: 20,000 (soccer) / 28,000(concerts)

Cost: $98 Million

Opened: 2006

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/3228/toyotapark3nc9.jpg http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7022/toyotapark2fs0.jpg

______________________________________________

Dick's Sporting Goods Park

Home of the Colorado Rapids

Capacity: 18,086 (soccer) / 26,000 (concert)

Cost: $131 Million

Opened: 2007

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5259/dicks1fp6.jpg http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5406/dicks3ra9.jpg

______________________________________________

Pizza Hut Park

Home of FC Dallas

Capacity: 20,500

Cost: $80 Million

Opened: 2005

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6947/pizzahut2wh1.jpg http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/6621/pizzahut1ne8.jpg http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/6621/pizzahut1ne8.jpg

______________________________________________


BMO Field

Home of Toronto FC

Capacity: 20,148

Cost: C$69 Million

Opened: 2007

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8599/bmofield2ij1.jpg http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5896/bmofield1ns4.jpg

______________________________________________

Columbus Crew Stadium

Home of the Columbus Crew

Capacity: 22,555

Cost: $28.5 Million

Opened: 1999

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2541/columbuscrew2rm6.jpg http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6827/columbuscrew1tb1.jpg


Stadiums under construction

Real Salt Lake Stadium

Future home of Real Salt Lake

Capacity: 22,168

Cost: $115 Million

Opening Date: 2008

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5369/realsaltlake1wt1.jpg http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1981/realsaltlake2qv7.jpg

______________________________________________

Red Bull Park

Future home of the NY Red Bulls

Capacity: 25,189

Cost: $180-200 Million

Opening Date: 2009

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/194/redbullpark1ty2.jpg http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/3859/redbullparkol9.jpg




Future Stadiums (in various planning stages)

Poplar Point Stadium

Future home of D.C. United

Capacity: 27,000

Cost: $150 Million

Opening Date: ?

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/459/poplarpoint4yx3.jpg

______________________________________________

Kansas City Wizards Stadium

Capacity: 20,000 ? 22,000

Cost: $143 Million

Opening Date: ?

______________________________________________

Houston Dynamo Stadium

Capacity: 22,000

Cost: ~$80 Million

Opening Date: ?

______________________________________________


San Jose Earthquakes Stadium

Capacity: 22,000 ? expandable to 30,000

Cost: ?

Opening Date: ?

______________________________________________


Chester Stadium

Future home of Philadelphia MLS expansion team

Capacity: 20,000

Cost: $115 Million

Opening Date: 2010 ?

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8047/chesterstadium1vb8.jpg

______________________________________________


Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium

Future home of Vancouver Whitecaps (USL-1 team), possible future MLS expansion team

Capacity: 15,000 ? expandable to 30,000

Cost: $70 Million

Opening Date: ?



http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4301/whitecaps2bg3.jpg http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8905/whitecaps1uh8.jpg

[disturbanist]

Do we really need another stadium? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just keep the Revs at Gillette and save some of that steel for something more important?

Is it efficient to use a 68,000 seat stadium for games that draw an average of 16,000? Also, I wouldn't have to drive to Foxborough any more. ;)


What about using Harvard stadium (maybe after a few upgrades)? You're joking, right?

[Ron Newman]

The Patriots have played in Harvard Stadium, so I'm not sure what's so outlandish about the Revolution using it too.

[tobyjug]

Wow. These are nice. Where is the money coming from? It seemed to this non-fan that MLS slots somewhere between the NHL and the Arena Football League. This must be a more profitable business than I imagined!

As for using Harvard Stadium, I'll bet Harvard wouldn't want anything to do with it. They only tolerated the Boston Patriots, and then bounced them. Braves Field would be a better bet in terms of size and availability.

[disturbanist]

The Patriots have played in Harvard Stadium, so I'm not sure what's so outlandish about the Revolution using it too.

The Boston Patriots played in Fenway Park, too. Maybe Mr. Kraft could work something out with Henry, Lucchino & Werner.

[Ron Newman]

Much less likely, given the large overlap between Red Sox and Revs seasons.

[Waldorf]

Wow. These are nice. Where is the money coming from? It seemed to this non-fan that MLS slots somewhere between the NHL and the Arena Football League. This must be a more profitable business than I imagined!

As for using Harvard Stadium, I'll bet Harvard wouldn't want anything to do with it. They only tolerated the Boston Patriots, and then bounced them. Braves Field would be a better bet in terms of size and availability.

Ah, Braves Field. I forgot about that one. Honestly, as much as I like the Revs, I think it will be a complete waste of time and energy to build a brand new stadium when we already have options. Does the commuter rail run during Revs games?

[choo]

The Boston Cannons Lacrosse team plays in Harvard Stadium now. They landed there after being at BU and in Lowell. They draw about 9,000+ a game now (a number that has rose every year). I think a top of the line soccer stadium would double as a great lacrosse field on weekends when the MLL plays. Mr. Kraft sure wouldn't turn away the revenue. Between concerts and games there I could see this being used as a booked, world class venue between April and October each year. I hope it all goes through and is not skimped on.

[disturbanist]

Ah, Braves Field. I forgot about that one. Honestly, as much as I like the Revs, I think it will be a complete waste of time and energy to build a brand new stadium when we already have options. The only realistic option besides a new soccer stadium is to stay at Gillette. The Revolution are not going to play at some rinky dink college field. That's just silly. The Krafts obviously believe a new soccer stadium is not a waste of time and energy as they've already dropped a few hundred thousand on a study. Most Revolution fans believe it is not a waste either. Soccer only has room to grow in the U.S. and if the Revs as a franchise want to be taken seriously, a new stadium is the only way to go.

Does the commuter rail run during Revs games?
No, only to Pats games.

[Ron Newman]

Harvard Stadium is not "rinky dink", but the current configuration of Nickerson (formerly Braves) Field certainly is.

[disturbanist]

Harvard Stadium is not "rinky dink"

In terms of capacity, no. But it is most certainly rinky dink in terms of facilities, ammenities and overall stadium quality compared to all the MLS stadiums I posted on the previous page.

[jass]

Ah, Braves Field. I forgot about that one. Honestly, as much as I like the Revs, I think it will be a complete waste of time and energy to build a brand new stadium when we already have options. Does the commuter rail run during Revs games?

Why dont we stick the red Sox in gilette while were at it?

Hell, throw some water on the pitch and the bruins could play there too.


The revs dont even play low-attendance non-league games at harvard or BU, they play in New Britain, Connecticut. A college stadium is out of the question.


Wow. These are nice. Where is the money coming from? It seemed to this non-fan that MLS slots somewhere between the NHL and the Arena Football League. This must be a more profitable business than I imagined!


MLS is slightly below the NHL in terms of revenue and attendance, but the NHL has twice as many teams.

MLS teams make money in stadiums they own. DC United, which is the sole tenant of RFK wants to move because playing in someone elses stadium doesnt work financially. Besides paying rent, they dont get any concession or parking money.

[Waldorf]

Why dont we stick the red Sox in gilette while were at it?

Hell, throw some water on the pitch and the bruins could play there too.



The Celtics and Bruins share an arena, without a problem. I just don't see the need for a new soccer stadium. Tell me, what is the problem with having the Revs play at Gillette? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Kraft own the Revs team? Does seem like there would be a problem paying rent at Gillette...

[Ron Newman]

One problem is that Foxboro is remote from the Brazilians and other immigrants who could be expected to support an MLS team.

[disturbanist]

The Celtics and Bruins share an arena, without a problem. I just don't see the need for a new soccer stadium. Tell me, what is the problem with having the Revs play at Gillette? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Kraft own the Revs team? Does seem like there would be a problem paying rent at Gillette...

1. Having a 3/4 empty stadium is and poor and unrealistic exhibit of a team's support and it is crappy atmosphere. A full stadium is 10 times better.

2. There would be better attendance at a stadium close to or in Boston with access to public transportation.

3. The NFL and MLS seasons overlap

4. The seats at Gillette are not covered - a necessity for a modern soccer stadium. A partial roof also improves atmosphere.

5. The Revolution have to play on an artificial surface at Gillette.

[jass]

1. Having a 3/4 empty stadium is and poor and unrealistic exhibit of a team's support and it is crappy atmosphere. A full stadium is 10 times better.

2. There would be better attendance at a stadium close to or in Boston with access to public transportation.

3. The NFL and MLS seasons overlap

4. The seats at Gillette are not covered - a necessity for a modern soccer stadium. A partial roof also improves atmosphere.

5. The Revolution have to play on an artificial surface at Gillette.

Add to number 1 that even though the revs dont pay rent, they have to pay the Gillette staff.

Add to number 2 that stadiums in urban areas always draw better than those in the burbs. In MLS, compare attendance in Toronto with that here, or in Dallas. Baseball is similar. The revs have the 3rd worst attendance in the league, if you exclude the Brazil double header. Gillettes location is a large reason, as the revs are currently on top of the table.

Add to number 3 that this means the second half of the revs season features NFL lines all of the field, which make watching the game less appealing.

And add to number 5 that even if there is turf at a new stadium, it would be cut a soccer appropriate level.


6) The field can be built to dimensions better suiting the revs. Soccer teams are free to adjust field size depending on their playing style.

[cantileverjim]

As for why Harvard wouldn't be an option: NIMBY issues, unlikelihood of building permanent facilities such as dedicated offices and training facilities, not to mention the fact that the playing surface is barely large enough to accommodate a regulation soccer field...

The Commuter Rail does not run trains to Revolution matches...

[tobyjug]

Why dont we stick the red Sox in gilette while were at it? Hell, throw some water on the pitch and the bruins could play there too.

Actually, they did that in Winnipeg and Buffalo on a one off basis. Huge success. And as for the Sox, one of the options contemplated an approach to the Krafts to temporarily modify Gillette for 2 to 3 years for baseball while Fenway was rebuilt from the ground up. (A little off topic, but what the hell...I liked it when MLB wanted to relocate the Expos to Fenway Park for a year or two while they were sorting out the ownership and financial problems.)

C.L.J. is right about Harvard's playing surface size. One of the many obstacles to the Boston Patriots continued use of the facility was that the sidelines are too close to the stands. Several rows on the side lines would have to have been blasted out, and by the time you were done, the whole thing would have looked like that Soldiers' Field atrocity in Chicago.

[disturbanist]

Add to number 1 that even though the revs dont pay rent, they have to pay the Gillette staff.

Add to number 2 that stadiums in urban areas always draw better than those in the burbs. In MLS, compare attendance in Toronto with that here, or in Dallas. Baseball is similar. The revs have the 3rd worst attendance in the league, if you exclude the Brazil double header. Gillettes location is a large reason, as the revs are currently on top of the table.

Add to number 3 that this means the second half of the revs season features NFL lines all of the field, which make watching the game less appealing.

And add to number 5 that even if there is turf at a new stadium, it would be cut a soccer appropriate level.


6) The field can be built to dimensions better suiting the revs. Soccer teams are free to adjust field size depending on their playing style.

Thank you for elaborating on my points in detail.

[Suffolk 83]

Can someone explain why covered seats are a "necessity" for soccer?

Toby I still drool about the thought of the Expo's moving to Boston, though it miight have really hurt the red sox.

[disturbanist]

Can someone explain why covered seats are a "necessity" for soccer?


I should have said a modern, world-class soccer stadium should be expected to have covered seats. It is not a necessity.

[kennedy]

Soccer fans don't like the rain, I guess. I'm sticking with a joint MLS/MLL stadium.

[Suffolk 83]

I should have said a modern, world-class soccer stadium should be expected to have covered seats. It is not a necessity.

Why should a world class soccer stadium have covered seats when world class baseball and football stadiums routinely do not?

[disturbanist]

Why should a world class soccer stadium have covered seats when world class baseball and football stadiums routinely do not?

Why is it always necessary to compare soccer to other American sports like it needs to take after them or something? In Baseball's case, games aren't played when it is pouring rain, so there is one reason.

It is quite easy to provide cover over seats for a small 25,000 seat stadium. So the real question is, why not? FIFA recommends it anyways.

For situations like these below it's nice to be watching a game under a roof. You'll sell more tickets too. That's a big reason.

http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/euro_06_12/euro2.jpg

http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/euro_06_12/euro14.jpg

[Suffolk 83]

you completely ignored football in your argument.. and if soccer wants to compete to the other 3 major american sports, it damn well better compare itself to them, if they like money anyways.

Bottom line, soccer is generating some steam, but is it going to go full steam and replace hockey as the forth sport? Its possible, but no one wants to watch lackluster soccer in America when they know European and International futbol is played at a much higher level. Americans want to watch the best. Not many Americans repespect the flop and fake that exists in soccer. How do you remedy that situation?

As a sincere sports fan, I got up for the world cup and the like because of the hype, but I watched the product, and its really lacking. Intensity is lacking, flops are galore, and there's no hero's. Soccer is maintaining a little steam right now because of the hype. THE HYPE. Other than playing it, its truely a terrible sport to watch

[disturbanist]

^You've made your point: you dislike soccer.

Why do you care whether the Revs have covered seats or not? Or anything else about a new stadium for that matter.

[Suffolk 83]

Yes your right, I dislike soccer, but you never answered the question why soccer deserves a roof over its fans heads and football doesnt. as well as baseball

[jass]

you completely ignored football in your argument.. and if soccer wants to compete to the other 3 major american sports, it damn well better compare itself to them, if they like money anyways.

Bottom line, soccer is generating some steam, but is it going to go full steam and replace hockey as the forth sport? Its possible, but no one wants to watch lackluster soccer in America when they know European and International futbol is played at a much higher level. Americans want to watch the best. Not many Americans repespect the flop and fake that exists in soccer. How do you remedy that situation?

As a sincere sports fan, I got up for the world cup and the like because of the hype, but I watched the product, and its really lacking. Intensity is lacking, flops are galore, and there's no hero's. Soccer is maintaining a little steam right now because of the hype. THE HYPE. Other than playing it, its truely a terrible sport to watch

I think its a huge mistake that Gillette doesnt have a roof. Look at the major stadiums under construction right now in the US, they have roofs.

College stadiums lack them, not because of tradition and appeal, but because of cash. Roofs cost money. Its also why the majority of soccer stadiums in the US dont have them either. Kraft has the money to do it though.

The bit about americans wanting to watch the best, and thus turning to europe is a bunch of bull. Americans watch what theyre told is the best, not what it. More americans follow EPL soccer over south american, and yet the quality is on the same level when you talk about the top teams. They watch EPL because the money tells them it's the best.


Your last point is purely opinion. Millions of people love cricket. I think its terrible. You probably like baseball, I think its ridiculously boring. NASCAR is huge, and I cant understand it.

if you dislike soccer so much, then dont argue about it in a stadium thread. This is an architecture forum. When renders come put, feel free to debate on the style, seating, shape etc, but dont argue that its not needed because you dislike the sport.


Edit: Last I checked most baseball stadiums have a partial roof. Its not needed however because clouds mean the game is canceled. Its nice for the summer sun though.

[Suffolk 83]

more baseball games get cancelled because of poor weather than futbol.... and football.

A very good foreign friend of mine put me on to cricket, I believe I would thoroughly enjoy it, even though I dont FULLY understant it. You just claimed Americans like EU futbol because the marketing and they are forced to, but yet you say SA futbol is on the same level. Maybe Americans just like futbol because they identify with the payers in the Eu? no? SA is amazing, but its always had a large following because of immigrants spreading their love of the sport. Your off. Who does Ronaldino play for again?

[disturbanist]

more baseball games get cancelled because of poor weather than futbol.... and football.

That's the point. Baseball games are canceled and fans don't have to sit in the pouring rain to watch the game. Soccer games go on.

[Suffolk 83]

but do they surpass baseball in popularity? do they deserve their own field when the product is inferior? If they;re not inferiour, what teams inspire the local fans? what teams are skilled enough to capture the fans imagination?

[Suffolk 83]

spell check not included

[disturbanist]

but do they surpass baseball in popularity? do they deserve their own field when the product is inferior? If they;re not inferiour, what teams inspire the local fans? what teams are skilled enough to capture the fans imagination?

Of course soccer doesn't surpass baseball in popularity. The Red Sox have had a hundred years attract the millions of fans it now has. The Revolution, in contrast, was founded as a team in 1995.

I am a big fan of both baseball and soccer and I like the Red Sox and the Revs each on their own merit. Comparing them is silly. The Revs are certainly not an inferior product in the MLS - they are at the top.

[jass]

but do they surpass baseball in popularity? do they deserve their own field when the product is inferior? If they;re not inferiour, what teams inspire the local fans? what teams are skilled enough to capture the fans imagination?

I dont even know what youre trying to get at anymore.

Do they deserve their own field? What does that even mean? Should the Marlins lose their stadium because they suck? Why does Harvard even have a stadium, they're not a sports school.


The revs are averaging 16,494 a game this season. It is almost a given that a more accessible stadium would get more people. Krafts have money, and can afford to build them a stadium, a stadium that could also host the local womens team, the Boston Cannons, and concerts, never-mind high school events.

The proposed area is industrial, and a tenant like a stadium could revitalize the area by bringing people to it.


One thing is being against stadiums payed for by public taxes. I can fully understand that argument. But you seem to argue that nobody would go to the games, and it would be a waste. That argument does not make sense.

You can argue that the team should continue to play at Gillette, but a look at how MLS is progressing can tell you that this isn't a viable solution, for many of the reasons mentioned before.


So again, what exactly are you trying to say?

[BostonSkyGuy]

you completely ignored football in your argument.. and if soccer wants to compete to the other 3 major american sports, it damn well better compare itself to them, if they like money anyways.

Soccer is a different game than the American sports. The American Sports (aside from hockey) were all invented and perfected here. They don't need to mimic any sport or any league in terms of a product standpoint. You can't change the game. See below for more

Bottom line, soccer is generating some steam, but is it going to go full steam and replace hockey as the forth sport? Its possible, but no one wants to watch lackluster soccer in America when they know European and International futbol is played at a much higher level. Americans want to watch the best. Not many Americans repespect the flop and fake that exists in soccer. How do you remedy that situation?

WHO CARES if the MLS replaces hockey? Seriously if you favorite sport in the world is basketball, and the Celtics are your favorite team do you care if the NBA is third behind NFL and MLB? No, you continue to watch basketball because YOU ENJOY it. People who only watch something because it's the best or has the most fans are morons. Watch what you deem to be entertaining and enjoyable.

I love soccer, I watch many Serie A (Italian League) games and some Premiership games during the season. I watch about 30 minutes of the MLS because no matter what people tell you, it's an inferior product. That's a fact. It's still decent soccer and people still watch it. If you want to see a live soccer match in the US, it's the only game in town.

Stop with the flopping and faking, I'm going to bet you've watched 0 minutes of a match of any soccer league. So stop pretending you know what you're talking about and puppeting the opinions of others. If there were no flopping and "Faking" as you put it, you STILL would not watch soccer, so don't give me that. By the way, have you ever watched the NBA? There's equally as much flopping in an NBA game as there is in a soccer game. It's part of the game. We don't have to like it, but it's there.

As a sincere sports fan, I got up for the world cup and the like because of the hype, but I watched the product, and its really lacking. Intensity is lacking, flops are galore, and there's no hero's. Soccer is maintaining a little steam right now because of the hype. THE HYPE. Other than playing it, its truely a terrible sport to watch

You're an idiot. This chunk of text proves it. You didn't watch the World Cup. If you did, you'd see it was probably one of the best sporting events of the last 10 years. Since you dislike soccer, you didn't understand the game and you didn't understand that there WERE heroes and there were villians and there were some absolutely great games. Italy/Germany going into extra time where Italy scored 2 goals to win was a GREAT game. The Final was great as well, it had everything and even went to Penalty Kicks. There were a slew of other games, but you obviously didn't watch them because you're talking out of your ass and anyone on this forum that knows 1/10 about soccer can see that. You saying the World Cup lacked intensity and heroes is like saying the Celtics Playoffs were boring and that they lacked intensity and good storylines.

[BostonSkyGuy]

The bit about americans wanting to watch the best, and thus turning to europe is a bunch of bull. Americans watch what theyre told is the best, not what it. More americans follow EPL soccer over south american, and yet the quality is on the same level when you talk about the top teams. They watch EPL because the money tells them it's the best.

I couldn't disagree more. The Primera Division in Argentina is a solid league, but it's not on par with the EPL, Serie A or La Liga. You can argue that the players themselves from South America are better, and I wouldn't argue that at all.

I think the EPL is a little over-rated, I prefer Serie A myself. I think the real reason a lot of Americans watch the EPL is because they can watch it and read about it in English. I know that the Italian League and even La Liga have games done in English but the media coverage here (especially in English) is far lacking to that of the EPL. I think that's the biggest reason. You can watch Sky Sports and get all the news about the EPL you could want.


Let's not turn this into a sport vs. sport thread because everyone has their own opinions on what is enjoyable. I happen to like pretty much every "major" sport other than hockey (I watch, but I don't follow it too closely) and Nascar if you want to inclue that. They're all different games, that's why there's different fan bases. You don't have to like every sport. There's a ton of options.

[cantileverjim]

One of the reasons roofs are included as a design element in soccer stadia around the world, especially in Europe, is that their seasons run from the end of August through May, covering a good chunk of the year where bad weather can adversely impact matches and attending supporters.

That being said, a roof covering supporters (if not the playing surface) also enhances the atmosphere at soccer matches, which when compared to most American sports, is decidedly different. There is chanting, singing, jumping up and down, large banners and flags waving... its much more proactive, interactive, and colorful. Take a look at the following videos to get some idea of this:

ocOGKxy7onU

or

11MQnQ8QjJs

If you put the 16,000 plus New England Revolution supporters in an open stadium with a capacity of close to 70,000, it's tremendously difficult to generate the sort of atmosphere that is a big selling point of matches around the world. No matter how much drumming, chanting, or cheering there may be, it pretty well gets lost in the vastness of the stadium. On the other hand, if you put 16,000 fans in a smaller stadium, say with a capacity of 20,000 with a roof that covers supporters, then the atmosphere in the stadium can be enhanced in an environment where fans are right on top of the action and the overall experience more intimate.

Quite frankly, the Revolution have been given a hand-me-down to wear in the form of Gillette Stadium that, while no doubt a quality product, is a very poor fit for purposes of the soccer club.

[underground]

As for flopping, isn't it actually the Italian league (or maybe it's just the Italian national team) that's notorious for this? I read somewhere that they play such a highly defensive game that free kicks begin to play such a huge role that players will flop all over the place.

That being said, if we're saying we don't want flopping while we're also saying MLS will never be as good as the Seriea A (sp?), there's a disconnect there.

[BostonSkyGuy]

As for flopping, isn't it actually the Italian league (or maybe it's just the Italian national team) that's notorious for this? I read somewhere that they play such a highly defensive game that free kicks begin to play such a huge role that players will flop all over the place.

That being said, if we're saying we don't want flopping while we're also saying MLS will never be as good as the Seriea A (sp?), there's a disconnect there.

Actually it's the Brazilian and Portuguese National teams that are the most famous for flopping. Go to youtube and search for Portuguese flopping or something like that, it's comical. The Italians do their fair share of flopping as well, as does every country that plays football. It's part of the game.

I don't understand your logic behind flopping and there being a disconnect in me thinking the Serie A is vastly superior to the MLS. Is there no flopping in the MLS? Because there might be more in Serie A does that mean the product becomes closer to what the MLS throws out? I'm not following your logic.

I'd love for no one in soccer ever to flop to try to gain a free kick or penalty, but that's never going to happen. I'd love for the NBA players to not flop to try to gain a charge or defensive foul call but it's not going to happen. These things have become part of the games, like them or not.

And yes, the Serie A is such a tactical and defensive league that every free kick is important. I don't know if a free kick in Serie A is more important than the EPL or La Liga or Bundesliga, I think every set-piece is important. I think in Serie A you have to make the best of your chances, because most of all the teams are solid defensively. Italian soccer in general (national team speaking) has always been defensive minded, counter-attacking football. Seems to work well for them.

[underground]

The disconnect I was getting at was in the argument, "I hate MLS because of the flopping and I wish it were more like the Italian League." That argument is similar to saying, " I hate flopping but wish there was more of it."

[disturbanist]

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8545/flopoi8.jpg

[BostonSkyGuy]

The disconnect I was getting at was in the argument, "I hate MLS because of the flopping and I wish it were more like the Italian League." That argument is similar to saying, " I hate flopping but wish there was more of it."

Please quote where I ever said I hated the MLS because of flopping and wished it were more like the Italian League in that regard. I never said that.

[underground]

I didn't direct that at anyone in particular. It was just a general observation.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Yeah, so I moved this thread over to General because you hooligans have derailed it pretty good. Until they start digging in the dirt for this thing I'm just gonna keep this thread here.

[disturbanist]

Until they start digging in the dirt for this thing I'm just gonna keep this thread here.


Aww man...that means this thread will probably be stuck here until 2011 at least.

[statler]

Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/10/16/a_pitch_for_soccer_in_somerville/) - October 16, 2008
A pitch for soccer in Somerville
N.E. Revolution seeks field in urban setting

By Eric Moskowitz, Globe Staff | October 16, 2008

The Kraft Group is strongly considering whether to build a soccer stadium in East Somerville as a home for the New England Revolution, a move that would allow the team to raise its profile in the region and capitalize on a rich concentration of immigrant soccer fans.

Following the lead of other Major League Soccer clubs, the Kraft family wants to build a 20,000- to 30,000-seat soccer stadium - possibly in an industrial no man's land that Somerville leaders want to turn into a vibrant commercial and residential district - and move the Revolution from Gillette Stadium, also owned by the Kraft Group, said Stacey James, a Kraft spokesman.

In Foxborough, where the Revolution have played since the league's first season in 1996, the typical home crowds of 10,000 to 20,000 fans can feel swallowed up by the nearly 69,000-seat football stadium. Moving to soccer-specific stadiums has helped other MLS teams boost attendance and carve out their own identities.

And putting the stadium, which could double as a concert venue, near a proposed Green Line stop would allow the team to more easily tap into the fervent soccer fan base in the region's ethnically diverse urban neighborhoods.

"They make no bones about the fact that they want to be in the urban core, which is a smart move on their part, and we're excited about it," Joseph A. Curtatone, Somerville's mayor, said.

The Krafts contacted the city about a year ago, Curtatone said, but increased their interest in June by investing $150,000 in a planning study to work with Somerville and explore development opportunities for the Inner Belt and Brickbottom, a pair of adjacent districts between Interstate 93 and McGrath Highway.

Meanwhile, the state Executive Office of Transportation, which is legally committed to extending the Green Line beyond Lechmere to Somerville and Medford by 2014, announced in May that it would probably need to split the Inner Belt and Brickbottom with a narrow, 11 1/2-acre railyard to store and service 80 Green Line cars.

That proposal drew immediate opposition from Somerville officials, business leaders, and activists, who fear the plan would thwart redevelopment. Although the site is currently home to a sparse mix of mostly industrial and warehouse buildings, its proximity to Boston, future Green Line access, and location amid the "power triangle of MIT, Tufts, and Harvard" make it a prime candidate to attract a mix of technology and science businesses, shopping, housing, and amenities, Curtatone said.

A soccer stadium would be "a major focal point, an anchor that brings a lot of value and a lot of activity to that district," he said.

The mayor said his immediate goal is to persuade the state to relocate or shrink the Green Line yard and encourage transit planners to consolidate it with a more-than-30-acre MBTA commuter railyard in Somerville's southeasternmost corner. That relocation would allow easier redevelopment of the Inner Belt and Brickbottom.

But if the Green Line yard can't be moved to the commuter railyard, placing it in the midst of the Inner Belt area in a redrawn fashion could allow for development of a stadium on "air rights" above it, and facilitate additional development around it, Curtatone said.

That "conceptual possibility" of a stadium above a railyard has emerged from the ongoing study funded by the Krafts and led by planners Greenberg/CBT Architects, with input from pro bono consultants who have helped Somerville with sustainable, transit-oriented planning, such as former state development secretary Douglas I. Foy, city officials said.

Somerville officials have shared initial findings with leaders from the transportation office and the Executive Office of Housing and Economic Development in an attempt to get state officials to consider not just short-term costs for constructing the railyard, but future development possibilities and long-term tax potential.

Asked about the stadium, Greg Bialecki, undersecretary of business development, said in a statement that Massachusetts is open to "all proposals that offer economic opportunities and create jobs in Somerville."

The Krafts are exploring multiple urban and suburban locations for a Revolution stadium, but the Somerville site is the only one that has undergone a planning study, James said.

Still, James said, the team has not committed to a particular community or site. "We're still in the process of considering all our options and selecting the option that is best for all involved," he said.

Auto magnate Herb Chambers, who has a Mercedes dealership and corporate offices in the area, invested the remaining $7,500 for the $157,500 study. He said he was attracted less by the possibility of a stadium than by the area's overall potential and what he called the proactive, business-friendly approach of Curtatone's administration.

"It's a great area, because it has such easy proximity to Boston," Chambers said. "When you think about it, where my office is, we are two miles from State Street, and we're a mile from the Museum of Science, the Charles River."

Not everyone has greeted stadium talk enthusiastically. William A. White Jr., an at-large alderman, said he and others on the board have reservations about the effect on traffic and doubts about whether a stadium would encourage additional development or generate the most tax revenue.

The aldermen also want to see the results of the Kraft-funded study so they can better respond to the idea, he said.

Stephen V. Mackey, chief executive of the Somerville Chamber of Commerce, is concerned that even secondary talk about combining a stadium with a modified Inner Belt railyard would distract from the primary goal of trying to move any railyard out of the district altogether, to maximize development potential.

"Once you take a rail maintenance facility, you're going to have it for 200 years," given that the commuter railyard, also known as the Boston Engine Terminal, dates to the 19th century, Mackey said. "The government's got to figure out where it's going to put the maintenance facility, and the soccer stadium is a separate issue."

Seven soccer-specific stadiums have opened for MLS teams in the past decade, according to the league; the latest opened last week in Utah, at a reported cost of $110 million.

The eighth, the 25,000-seat Red Bull Arena, is under construction in a transit-friendly New Jersey site as the new home for Red Bull New York, which plays in the 80,000-seat Giants Stadium.

Sean Donahue, a Franklin native who began rooting for the Revolution in grade school and once won a RadioShack contest as the nation's most "Xtreme Soccer Fan," said other clubs have seen attendance increase after moving out of multipurpose stadiums.

"When you're going into a game and there's 15,000 fans in a 66,000-seat stadium, the atmosphere is never going to be as good as it is in a soccer-specific stadium," said Donahue, a Bryant University student who now writes about the Revolution in print and on the Internet and hosts a weekly radio show.

Although a Somerville stadium would mean a longer commute for Donahue and other southeastern New England devotees, a T-friendly location would open a wider market, help the team, and enhance the fan experience, he said.

"It's just great to hear the Krafts are looking into it," he said.

[disturbanist]

http://www.wickedlocal.com/somerville/news/x635407764/City-hopes-to-resolve-Green-Line-facility-issue-before-building-a-soccer-stadium-at-Inner-Belt

City hopes to resolve Green Line facility issue before building a soccer stadium at Inner Belt

By Auditi Guha
Wed Oct 22, 2008, 05:57 PM EDT

Somerville -

With the area called ?Little Brazil? due to the immigrant population, is it any wonder the Kraft Group is considering Somerville?s Inner Belt for a 20,000-seat soccer stadium?

The Kraft family owns the New England Revolution as well as the New England Patriots, and has underwritten a study of the Inner Belt/Brickbottom region looking into the feasibility of this project, with additional funding from longtime Somerville auto dealership Herb Chambers.

?We?ve had some conversation with the city, and we are all waiting to see how feasible it is,? said Stacey James, a Kraft spokesman. He said they considered Somerville as a possible site after they began looking at alternatives to the Gillette Stadium where New England Revolution currently play their home games.

Meanwhile, both the city and the Kraft Group are awaiting the results of the study conducted this summer by Greenburg/CBT Architects. A public meeting will be organized when this comes in, said Monica Lamboy from the mayor?s Office of Strategic Planning and Community Development.

While there are no official proposals yet, the city began discussions with the Kraft Group a year ago. But the mayor is intrigued about the idea of having a soccer stadium here, she added.

With Inner Belt long slated as an area of potential future development, especially after plans to extend the Green Line there, of bigger concern is the state Executive Office of Transportation?s current interest in putting a Green Line maintenance facility smack against the Brickbottom Artist Studios.

?Right now the city is focusing on the maintenance facility, where it goes and whether we will have air rights over it,? Lamboy said. ?Once we get past it, we can discuss all kinds of creative ideas like the stadium.?

Mayor Joe Curtatone has recently floated the idea of having it built above the Green Line facility, hence the interest in securing air rights.

Residents and the city have been opposed to the proposal of building it in Yard 8 on Inner Belt Road and are pressing the state to look at other sites nearby. ?We are hopeful we will get some alternatives from the state,? Lamboy said. ?It seems like they are taking our input seriously.?

Brickbottom residents, who have been collectively opposed to the idea of having the substation in their backyard, say neither the city nor the Kraft group has contacted them regarding the stadium issue. Their main concerns are about how it could affect the area, especially in terms of noise, light, traffic and parking.

Artist and resident Heather van Aelst doesn?t have a strong opinion about the general idea of a soccer stadium yet, but would like to know more about it. ?I am very concerned about the combined Green Line maintenance facility/stadium idea,? she said. ?I?m afraid that the stadium portion could run into problems, never be built, and Somerville would be stuck with a second rail maintenance facility. Why risk that at this point? Let?s first focus on finding a solution for the Green Line maintenance facility that has as small an impact and footprint on Somerville as possible.?

Stephen Mackey, president/CEO of the Somerville Chamber of Commerce, said he welcomes a proposal from Kraft like he does with any other developer, but he believes the stadium should remain a separate issue because the complexity of doing it together could delay the Green Line from coming to Inner Belt. He is also worried that the city could get locked into the maintenance facility before getting a commitment to air rights development. ?The maintenance facility is something the city has to live with virtually forever and it will have tremendous impact on the development potential of the city,? he said.

Like the Brickbottom residents, the Chamber of Commerce strongly recommends the EOT put the new facility in the neighboring 43 acres of Boston Engine Terminal owned by the MBTA in Yard 7.

Ward 6 Alderman Rebekah Gewirtz, who also chairs the Committee on Housing and Community Development and said they have been debating the issue for weeks, agrees with Mackey.

Regarding the stadium, she feels there needs to be more public discussion. ?I feel strongly there needs to be more community involvement. We need to figure out what the community concerns and the economic benefits are,? she said.

The EOT has rescheduled a meeting of the Green Line Extension Citizens Advisory Group for Nov. 12 from 4-6 p.m. at St. Clements High School (New Parrish Hall), 579 Boston Ave., Medford, where they plan to discuss the long-promised report on maintenance facility sites and their final recommendations.

[underground]

It's funny, I had the exact opposite reaction to the timing issue. I think including Kraft and the stadium could actually help speed up the Greenline construction. Look at how quickly Kraft has been moving on Patriots place. Meanwhile, look at how slowly the MBTA has been moving on... well every single project they have. Looking into my crystal ball, I see the MBTA trying its hardest to turn the Extension into another Kenmore Sq. Bus Station fiasco, while the Kraft Group trys to keep them on time and on budget.

[kennedy]

Do they deserve their own field? What does that even mean? Should the Marlins lose their stadium because they suck? Why does Harvard even have a stadium, they're not a sports school.

Hey, Harvard is a Division 1 (AA) Football, Hockey, Lacrosse, Fieldhockey i believe

and consistently at the top of the ICSA (sailing).

they have actually been the hub of sporting for a long time-first ever collegiate game was played there, in multiple sports.

so piss off, of course they deserve a stadium.

[underground]

The Harvard Stadium is also historic. The official measurements of a football field are based off of it's dimensions. Back in the day, Yale wanted to make the field bigger so that everyone would spread out more and not hurt eachother as much. But Harvard had just finished building their stadium and didn't want to build another.

[kennedy]

Exactly. Precisely, even.

Snagglepuss from SNL.

[disturbanist]

Study: Stadium ?Critical? to Somerville Redevelopment

Snippet:
A study into the future development of the Inner Belt and Brickbottom districts of Somerville has concluded that a potential 20,000-seat soccer stadium for the New England Revolution would be a ?critical? component of any redevelopment plan for the area.

Study authors Greenberg Consultants of Toronto and CBT Architects of Boston argue that a stadium or other ?specialized program? is key to establishing a competitive edge for the area. Commissioned by the City of Somerville and funded in part by the Kraft Sports Group, the study calls for a $500 million development that includes a stadium which would be built on the air rights above a proposed Green Line Maintenance facility. The proposal also includes plans for 500,000 square feet of office space, additional hotel and retail space, and the construction of new public parks.

Currently available on the City of Somerville?s web site, the study also suggests the development would create 2,000 new jobs in one of the poorest sections of the city. The stadium would be built during the first phase of the project.

But most intriguing for Revolution fans are three proposed stadium sites within the Inner Belt district, including one site that the study refers to as being ?preferred?.

http://revsnet1.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/study-stadium-critical-to-somerville-redevelopment/

http://revsnet1.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/preferred-stadium1.jpg?w=704&h=522

You can download the study here:
http://www.somervillema.gov/cos_content/documents/CBT-InnerBelt-BrickbottomReport-FINAL-WebVersion11-25-084.pdf

.

[Ron Newman]

Haven't looked at the document yet, but that map shows several more T stations than are currently planned.

[kennedy]

I looked through that document, it's very interesting, but seems very expensive. If built, it would provide an excellent reason to live in Somerville, plus the benefit of quick and easy transportation, and would look pretty. And maybe the Cannons wouldn't have to play in random college stadiums each year.

[disturbanist]

City presents stadium plans for Inner Belt

Questions of ethics, benefits to city remain

By Tom Nash

City officials presented a plan Wednesday to put a major sports facility, possibly a professional soccer stadium, in the long underutilized Inner Belt and Brickbottom commercial district.

A Green Line station, slated to be built in the neighborhood by 2014, is expected to help revitalize the 160-acre area bordered by McGrath O'Brien Highway. A soccer stadium for New England Revolution home games could be in the plans as well.

City officials helped present the study last week, conducted by CBT, after the Kraft Group, who owns the Revolution and the Patriots, expressed interest in building a soccer stadium in Somerville.

"We agreed that something like a sports facility can really capitalize this area and in fact kick start the identity for this area," said Kishore Varanasi of CBT.

Alderman-at-Large Bill White said, "the study didn't go into great detail about the effects of a soccer stadium" such as the traffic it may generate.

Among the four site options included in the report, one included using air rights above a 10-acre Green Line train maintenance facility that has been proposed by the state for Inner Belt.

White said it is still not clear if the city can reap the commercial tax benefits of a stadium if it is built on top of the maintenance facility, property owned by the state.

Lee Auspitz, a member of the Davis Square Task Force which advocated for city residents when the Red Line came to Somerville in the early 1980s, criticized the city's inaction on addressing the legality of the Kraft Group providing 95 percent of the study's funding under a charitable loan despite the fact that they stand to profit from the stadium as its owners.

"I've seen no action on (the issue), and it's really a disgrace," Auspitz said. "None of us is elevated by being a party to the abuse of charitable organizations. Everybody knows the difference between giving to charity and giving to yourself, and the Kraft Group has given to itself."

Both Varanasi and the city's development director Monica Lamboy refused to discuss that issue.

http://www.thesomervillenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=259


.

[disturbanist]

More from the Stadium Study

Posted by Mike Marshall on December 17, 2008

http://revsnet1.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/more-from-the-stadium-study/

For those of you who haven?t had the chance to flip through the entire 55-page Inner Belt Brickbottom Scoping Study, allow me to point out a couple of interesting highlights:

* If you?re unfamiliar with the general location, the study points out that the majority of major buildings in Downtown Boston is within a two mile radius. Harvard Square is within two miles, and MIT is a little more than a mile away as the crow flies. I would say it?s in a similar location to BMO Field in Toronto.[/CENTER]

* I don?t want to cast aspersions on the professionalism of the study as clearly a lot of time went into it, but it?s a little disheartening when you see terms like ?Lunchpin Mixed Use Development? on one page, and an arial photo labeled Wrigley Field when it?s clearly a picture of Fenway Park.

* Think that the idea of putting a stadium above a train station isn?t a serious consideration? Think again. The study also includes this graphic, featuring trains below the playing surface of the stadium.

http://revsnet1.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/stadium-profile.jpg?w=600&h=138

* Why Somerville? I mean, other than the fact that they have some land and are interested? Within five miles of the proposed stadium site, there are 64,000 residents of Irish descent, 57,000 with Italian heritage, 15,000 with English heritage, and 11,000 with German ancestry. This doesn?t even take into consideration the area?s considerable Brazilian population. It?s believed that as many as 15,000 Brazilians live in Somerville alone, and the City of Boston says more than 7,000 live in the city. Massachusetts has the 2nd-largest concentration of Brazilians in the United States behind only Florida.

* The study used an interesting mix of stadium footprints on page 55, ranging from the expected such as Toyota Park and Crew Stadium, to European facilities such as Pittodrie and the Majedski Stadium, to the head-scratchers in Wrigley Field and Fred Yager Stadium. The Revs could do much worse than a replica of the Majedski Stadium, by the way.

http://img.skysports.com/07/09/480/Reading_62_569991.jpg[/CENTER]

And finally, what does the Revs? potential new home look like today? Well, not much. Google Streetview gives us this look at the ?Preferred Stadium Location?.

http://revsnet1.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/innerbelt-today.jpg?w=670&h=465

[cantileverjim]

Here are some of the stadia the study utilized for purposes of comparison:

City of Salford Stadium (Capacity of 22,000)
Construction Cost: 53 million dollars
Image: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42358000/jpg/_42358723_salford_reds1_416.jpg

City of Manchester Stadium (Capacity of 47,726)
Construction Cost: 166 million dollars
Image: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/42/119486132_a352b753b4_b.jpg

Reebok Stadium (Capacity of 28,723)
Construction Cost: 53 million dollars
Image: http://www.fullflow.com/images/casestudies/Bolton%20Reebok%20Stadium%20-%20Fullflow.jpg

Madejski Stadium (Capacity of 24,250)
Construction Cost: 75.8 million dollars
Image: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2141/2524249857_d82b3c4399_b.jpg

As a reminder, it has previously been suggested by officials for the New England Revolution that Kraft is prepared to spend $100 million on the construction cost alone, so it'll be interesting to think about what they could do on a 20,000-seat stadium.

[underground]

If Kraft's looking to spend $100 million on a 20,000-ish seat soccer stadium, judging from the cost of Salford, Kraft could have about $50 million left. I wonder if he's considering paying for the deck? It would definitly help move the project along (a maybe the Green Line Extension too). I also wonder if he's considering building a Patriot's Place-esque development to coincide with the stadium. I think it would be a good move. That area is especially dense and would bring people in for more than the hand full of times the stadium would be used per year. Maybe he could do both. I wonder how much the cost of the deck will be?

[JohnAKeith]

Nation?s largest soccer stadium to open in N.J.
March 18, 2010 01:15PM
The Red Bull Arena

A $220 million soccer stadium funded by energy drink maker Red Bull is set to debut this weekend in Harrison, N.J., according to the Wall Street Journal.

The Red Bull Arena, situated 10 miles outside New York City on top of a one-time industrial waste zone, is the largest soccer stadium in the country, containing 25,000 seats. The stadium will be home to the New York Red Bulls team, named as part of a marketing strategy on the part of the carbonated beverage.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704059004575127842812699832.html

By way of http://therealdeal.net

[mass88]

The Red Bull Arena will easily be the finest soccer stadium in the United States or Canada. All of MLS should emulate the Red Bulls as their stadium will have the best atmosphere in the league.

I think the Revolution should do their best to emulate Red Bull Arena in any future stadium. A 20-25,000 soccer only stadium, with the stands right up next to the pitch, a mid pitch tunnel entrance, natural grass pitch and a roof that covers all the seats would be ideal. It would give the stadium a loud European feel.

Ideally though, at least to me, the Revolution would build a 48-50,000 seat expandable, retractable roof arena in Somerville. This would do the following, guarantee Boston would be a host for any future US World Cup. Having the games in Foxboro is nice, but promoting a world class arena right next to Boston would be even better. Also, it would allow Boston to compete to host a Final Four for NCAA men;s basketball. I realize the NCAA now has a 70,000 seat minimum, but if Boston came in with a 63-66,000 seat option, I am willing to bet they would relax the rules. The court is now place in the center and that allows for thousands of seats on the field level to be added.

[jass]

Extremely wishful thinking.

Any revs stadium would probably resemble the 18,000 capacity cheap jobs seen in Toronto, being built in Philly or planned for San Jose.

The largest MLS stadium holds 27,000*. The revs average 15,000. Even with a 50% increase due to better location, theres still no need to build bigger than 25,000.

I'd love to see a real stadium, like red bull arena.

http://imgsrv.wcbs880.com/image/DbLiteGraphic/201003/6251454.jpg?1269255441
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Red+Bulls+Press+Conference+7tG8Hu_hBHvl.j pg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Red+Bulls+Press+Conference+zpjMqY9nD0El.j pg


This is what Philly is building
http://www.mlsphilly2010.com/images/mls/stadium_model/medium/model_1.jpg
It's scheduled to be done in July
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4454323321_2996781144_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4454331825_68431de50f_b.jpg

*Seattle Plays at Quest Field and limits capacity to 36,000. They sold out all games last season.

[mass88]

Extremely wishful thinking.

Any revs stadium would probably resemble the 18,000 capacity cheap jobs seen in Toronto, being built in Philly or planned for San Jose.

The largest MLS stadium holds 27,000*. The revs average 15,000. Even with a 50% increase due to better location, theres still no need to build bigger than 25,000.

I'd love to see a real stadium, like red bull arena.

http://imgsrv.wcbs880.com/image/DbLiteGraphic/201003/6251454.jpg?1269255441
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Red+Bulls+Press+Conference+7tG8Hu_hBHvl.j pg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Red+Bulls+Press+Conference+zpjMqY9nD0El.j pg


This is what Philly is building
http://www.mlsphilly2010.com/images/mls/stadium_model/medium/model_1.jpg
It's scheduled to be done in July
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4454323321_2996781144_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4454331825_68431de50f_b.jpg

*Seattle Plays at Quest Field and limits capacity to 36,000. They sold out all games last season.

Of course it is very wishful thinking.

But I think in order for the MLS to survive and grow in this country, they need to push and help finance new soccer only stadiums for teams and vastly improve the atmosphere and experience at matches.

[Lrfox]

^Agreed. Have you been to a Revs game? It's depressing how empty the stadium is. The echoes are eerie and everything sounds kind of muted.

Seattle's NFL stadium is outdoor, but the sections are stacked more steeply to make it seem as though even the fans in the upper decks are right on top of the field. Something like this, on a smaller scale of course, would be a great model for drawing in more fans. Steep seating sections will make everyone feel like they're closer to the action.

I think the stadium (if one's built in New England) will be at Patriot Place as that's where the Kraft's investment is. However, I'd love to see it go to one of the secondary cities in the region. Providence, Worcester, Springfield and even Lowell could really do well with a venue like this. Of course, it would work in Somerville too but I'd rather see it elsewhere. I can't imagine Kraft putting it anywhere but his mall in Foxboro.

[mass88]

^Agreed. Have you been to a Revs game? It's depressing how empty the stadium is. The echoes are eerie and everything sounds kind of muted.

Seattle's NFL stadium is outdoor, but the sections are stacked more steeply to make it seem as though even the fans in the upper decks are right on top of the field. Something like this, on a smaller scale of course, would be a great model for drawing in more fans. Steep seating sections will make everyone feel like they're closer to the action.

I think the stadium (if one's built in New England) will be at Patriot Place as that's where the Kraft's investment is. However, I'd love to see it go to one of the secondary cities in the region. Providence, Worcester, Springfield and even Lowell could really do well with a venue like this. Of course, it would work in Somerville too but I'd rather see it elsewhere. I can't imagine Kraft putting it anywhere but his mall in Foxboro.

Steep seating is not too common amongst American professional sports leagues. Take a look at the Bernabeu over in Madrid, they have some of the steepest seats I have ever seen. Qwest Field was designed so that crowd noise would echo off the 2 roofs they have covering the stands so that place will always be loud, even if there is only 40,000 people in there.

[Ron Newman]

The best argument for Somerville (or Lowell) is that the stadium would be right next to a large soccer-loving immigrant population. You don't get that in Foxboro and never will.

[mass88]

The Revolution need to get a shirt sponsor. I could see maybe Staples or even CVS throwing some money at them.

[jass]

The best argument for Somerville (or Lowell) is that the stadium would be right next to a large soccer-loving immigrant population. You don't get that in Foxboro and never will.

I wouldnt be against Worcester. Framingham has more immigrants than Sommerville, it's transit accessible, and they keep looking for revitalization projects. What better compliment to the DCU arena than a new soccer stadium?

[kennedy]

Why complement an arena with another venue? Venues should be used sparingly in my opinion, considering how often they sit empty and how much space they take up.

[Lrfox]

Steep seating is not too common amongst American professional sports leagues. Take a look at the Bernabeu over in Madrid, they have some of the steepest seats I have ever seen. Qwest Field was designed so that crowd noise would echo off the 2 roofs they have covering the stands so that place will always be loud, even if there is only 40,000 people in there.

exactly. That's why it's a good idea to build steep. Let's face it, we will never draw as many soccer fans as other countries. If you build a stadium that maximizes noise and intimacy, you create a great experience for the fans and players; even with only 15,000-20,000 seats.

Also, immigrant populations played a huge role in my suggesting other cities. Sections of Providence and other cities (Lowell, New Bedford, etc) are already going nuts for the world cup. These people would fill seats and add to the atmosphere. Providence, Worcester, Springfield (paired with Hartford), and even Lowell (close enough to Boston) could be great locations for a stadium f you want to really draw from immigrant populations.

[GW2500]

I'm pretty sure Somerville has more imigrants than Framingham, and when you add up all the imigrants in within 5 miles of Somerville, it has to be way higher than than the other cities mentioned. Also Somerville has 93 and plenty of tranist options.

[mass88]

exactly. That's why it's a good idea to build steep. Let's face it, we will never draw as many soccer fans as other countries. If you build a stadium that maximizes noise and intimacy, you create a great experience for the fans and players; even with only 15,000-20,000 seats.

Also, immigrant populations played a huge role in my suggesting other cities. Sections of Providence and other cities (Lowell, New Bedford, etc) are already going nuts for the world cup. These people would fill seats and add to the atmosphere. Providence, Worcester, Springfield (paired with Hartford), and even Lowell (close enough to Boston) could be great locations for a stadium f you want to really draw from immigrant populations.

Also people forget that not every European club team has a MASSIVE stadium. A lot of clubs have smaller 18-30,000 seat venues.

The only clubs that have large venues, over 50,000, are clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Manchester United, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Ajax, Sevilla, Roma, etc.


I think Sommerville would make for a fine location. As some have mentioned, it is right next to 93, has other transit options and is located right next to Boston.

[jass]

Also people forget that not every European club team has a MASSIVE stadium. A lot of clubs have smaller 18-30,000 seat venues.

The only clubs that have large venues, over 50,000, are clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Manchester United, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Ajax, Sevilla, Roma, etc.


Massive stadiums are generally found in Latin America. Azteca, Maracana, Sao Paulo etc.

Most stadiums Brazil built in the 60s were to hold 120,000-200,000, but most never made it past phase 1 or 2 (so they hold 40,000-60,0000)

[GW2500]

The more I think of it, the more I really like the idea of Somerville getting the stadium. Between that and the green line extension, Somerville could have some real potential. By having a stadium it would give Somerville a real destination, a player in the venue scene. It would casue a big influx of people looking to spend money and be entertained. Imagine what happens at Red Sox games in Kendal sq or maybe the Garden when its sold out for Celtics. That would create a lot of activity and most likely the area would become lively and have entertainment. It would give general Boston and Cambridge people a real reason to take the new green line up to Somerville.

And another great thing I think it would do is draw a common area for both imigrants and Americans that love soccer (and especially latinos) a large place to gather. I think it could help give the latino population of the greater Boston area, which is sizable, a large place they could put some influence on. I could easily see salsa or latino clubs opening up. It could maybe become a lively place that has a latino stye to it. I think that would be a cool addition to legitamite social scenes in Boston, maybe evenutally the size of Central or Harvard Sq. The fact that the Green line is coming, it could really utilize its new potential. Also 93 is right there. People from Lawrence could easily get there for a game. The new orange line stop could have a bus that goes there. It would almost have the accesablilty comprable to Fenway and the Garden. Also IKEA will have people coming into the area. The other squares nearby would probably swell with activity during home games (and maybe concerts). Somerville is on the move and if they could get a cool 20,000 soccer stadium, it would really make Somerville a little bit more "big time-ish".

[jass]

Looks like the revolution might be testing the Boston waters.

According to a new schedule, the revs will play their Superliga matches in the city, no venue has been announced. Superliga is a firnedly tournament between 4 MLS and 4 mexican teams.

Possibilities:
-Fenway, if configured for soccer for the scottish teams
-Nickerson
-BC
-Harvard
-Northeastern

[Ron Newman]

Scottish teams?

Nickerson doesn't have much seating capacity. I'd pick Harvard Stadium, assuming the field is of the proper dimensions. Where would you put it at Northeastern?

[BostonUrbEx]

They should play on the Greenway. Nosebleeds are on top of IP for just a buck a ticket.

[jass]

Scottish teams?

Nickerson doesn't have much seating capacity. I'd pick Harvard Stadium, assuming the field is of the proper dimensions. Where would you put it at Northeastern?

Caltic and Rangers are rumored to be playing a game at Fenway this summer, but the Globe might have screwed that up by insulting both teams in an uninformed piece they wrote.

Nickerson holds 10k, but the view lines suck. Northeasterns Parson field holds 7k and has supposedly better sight lines.

Harvard is nice and big, but very narrow.

[kennedy]

Fairly certain Harvard Stadium would be the best option, almost definitely can handle Superliga soccer, so long as it doesn't have significantly different field dimensions as college soccer. Harvard also has a tradition of being the first choice for most summer athletic events (they already serve as the home of the MLL Boston Cannons). Nickerson is too small for Superliga, so is Northeastern. BC might work, but I think they'd prefer it to be closer to the city.

[jass]

Fairly certain Harvard Stadium would be the best option, almost definitely can handle Superliga soccer, so long as it doesn't have significantly different field dimensions as college soccer. Harvard also has a tradition of being the first choice for most summer athletic events (they already serve as the home of the MLL Boston Cannons). Nickerson is too small for Superliga, so is Northeastern. BC might work, but I think they'd prefer it to be closer to the city.

Soccer has the benefit that field size is not set in stone. Yes, the world cup has a predetermined field size, but local teams are free to select from a range of sizes. Some teams actually narrow there field depending on what kind of players they have.

So while it would be within regulation to play at harvard, it would be an uncomfortable size. Also, apparently the american football lines cannot be washed off.

[kennedy]

Weird, what would make Harvard Field Turf any different from Field Turf anywhere else?

[mass88]

I hope that the Old Firm (Rangers-Celtic) is played out at Fenway this summer, even if it is only a friendly. European football is amazing and I love when teams do U.S. summer tours.

[GW2500]

Not too much new info, but the fact that they keep talking it seems like the interest seems to be genuine. I really hope it goes through. And actually in the midterm between Foxborrough and future site, Harvard football stadium would be a great place for the time being.


Boston.com
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/07/18/new_stadium_could_kick_start_revolution_somerville/?comments=all#readerComm



SOMERVILLE ? The Inner Belt, a sparsely used industrial district in a corner of East Somerville, is about as inviting as its name, cut off from surrounding neighborhoods by railroad tracks, elevated highways, and a massive maintenance facility for the MBTA?s commuter rail.


With the coming Green Line extension into Somerville, city officials see an opportunity to remake the area ? created decades ago to serve an interstate that was never built ? into a thriving hub of housing, offices, shops, and, potentially, a sparkling new stadium for the New England Revolution.

The owners of the Revolution believe a new stadium here would raise the team?s profile by relocating from Gillette Stadium, the cavernous Foxborough home the team currently shares with the New England Patriots. It would put the team within easy reach of neighborhoods packed with immigrants from soccer-obsessed countries, young urbanites looking for accessible entertainment, and suburban soccer families with train connections to North Station.

Team owner Robert Kraft and his Kraft Group first floated the idea several years ago, but it had been on hold because of uncertainty over the Inner Belt. The state and city have tussled over the area for nearly two years while determining where to build an 11-acre, 24-hour maintenance facility needed to serve and store the vehicles that will run along the Green Line route extending beyond Lechmere to Somerville and Medford, a nearly $1 billion project the state says it will complete by 2015.

A compromise announced in May by city and state officials to put the Green Line service facility not in the middle of the Inner Belt but along its eastern edge, near the existing commuter rail yard and barn, has allowed the Kraft Group to refocus on the area as a potential site for a roughly 20,000-seat facility. That facility would give the Revolution a more intimate stadium in the metropolitan area and double as a concert venue.

The Krafts have invested more than $1 million already to explore that site and three others around Boston, the Revolution?s chief operating officer, Brian Bilello, said recently on the team?s blog, answering questions from fans hungry for a venue closer to Boston and public transit.

?During the next few months our architects and engineers will be studying the area to determine if it is possible to build a soccer stadium,?? wrote Bilello, a former MIT soccer player and management consultant who joined the Kraft Group in 2003.

Bilello said that building a stadium for the Revolution is ?a top priority?? for the Krafts, the team, and the league.

When Major League Soccer began in 1996, most teams played in football stadiums that put fans far from the action and swallowed up the typical crowds of 10,000 to 20,000.Continued...

Over the past decade, a succession of soccer-oriented parks has opened across the league, including two this season that cost more than $100 million and are situated near rail stops in urban settings: the 25,200-seat Red Bull Arena, home to the New York Red Bulls, and the 18,500-seat PPL Park, home to the Philadelphia Union.

While those teams are among the league?s top draws, the Revolution have slumped to 13th among 16 teams in attendance. The team currently averages fewer than 12,000 fans per game. Although the 69,000-seat Gillette Stadium easily sells out for the Patriots, it is a more challenging location, nearly 30 miles from downtown Boston, for a soccer club trying to establish a steady fan base.

?We?ve seen the impact that an urban soccer stadium has made, and we are committed to creating that environment here in New England,?? Bilello wrote.

Kraft told the Globe last week that the stadium was not a question of financing but of ensuring the proper fit for a permanent home for the Revolution, including public transportation. ?We are not under the gun, so we are going to do the right thing,?? he said.

The Inner Belt is adjacent to a neighborhood known as Brickbottom that, save for a set of residential artist lofts, is a no-man?s land of storage and heavy-equipment lots. Less than 2 miles from the State House and located within what Mayor Joseph A. Curtatone calls the ?power triangle of MIT, Tufts, and Harvard,?? the combined 200-acre Inner Belt-Brickbottom brims with potential for redevelopment, served by a Green Line stop. Curtatone has said the area could become the next Kendall Square.

The state had committed to extending the Green Line by the end of 2014, but transportation officials disclosed this month that the project will be delayed at least 10 months, citing the debate over where to put the maintenance yard.

The decision to move the facility a few hundred yards to the east will be more expensive, requiring the taking of four properties, including a 100,000-square-foot liquor wholesaler, that could cost $50 million. But state and local officials believe the move will pay off in redevelopment potential, including a possible stadium, said Michael Meehan, a spokesman for Curtatone.

Meehan said the stadium, notwithstanding potential traffic and parking concerns, would be ?a way for Somerville to show itself off.??

?It?s a potentially very interesting addition to the quality of life in the city,?? he said.

Eric Moskowitz can be reached at emoskowitz@globe.com.

? Copyright 2010 Globe Newspaper Company.

[czsz]

Why is this thread in general?

[jass]

Why is this thread in general?

Archboston hates soccer

[vanshnookenraggen]

That's strange. Moved it.


This is good news. Given their commitment to transit this might be a way for the State to build the Green Line to Brickbottom for cheaper, get Kraft to put in some cash.

[mass88]

The whole area, right off 93 in Somerville where the Home Depot, LaQuinta are and the shopping center with Staples, Christmass Tree Shopw, Sports, Authority, etc. needs a ton of work. It looks like a mess.

Also, a soccer specific stadium for the Revolution is needed. Going to a Revs game with 15,000 people inside a 68,000 seat is awful. I can only hope the Revolution use the new Red Bull Arena as a model as it is easily the finest stadium in the MLS.

[Ron Newman]

The area you are talking about is Assembly Square which is a different place, with its own plan for development (and a new Orange Line station).

[KentXie]

It would be awesome if we can combine the the Soccer and Lacrosse team together, though I think the outdoor lacrosse team is already playing in Harvard.

[AmericanFolkLegend]

How do the field sizes compare?

[BostonUrbEx]

Soccer is 300x240
Lacrosse is 330x180

[BostonUrbEx]

Also, for comparison, the Revs play on what was intended to serve as the Pats' 360x160 NFL playing field.

NHL ice is 200x85

NBA is 94x50

Tennis is 120x60

Volleyball is 60x30

Rugby is up to (but may be smaller than) 400.262467 x 229.658793

Dimensions thanks to: http://www.sportsknowhow.com/dimensions/index.html

[AmericanFolkLegend]

^Your rugby dimensions must be in meters.

[BostonUrbEx]

Whoops, you're right.

Rugby fields are up to 400.262467 x 229.658793 when converted to feet.

[mass88]

The area you are talking about is Assembly Square which is a different place, with its own plan for development (and a new Orange Line station).

I only hope they include for a cleanup/extensive work on the roadways in that area around 93. It's a mess.

http://www.adpulp.com/archives/2010/03/17/Red_Bull_Stadium.jpg


This should be the model the Revolution follow.

[czsz]

Globe Editorial
Fenway: Soccer meets ?Sweet Caroline?
July 23, 2010

Fenway Park is far from an ideal venue for soccer ? all those choice baseball-watching seats behind home plate are a long way from most of the action ? but 32,162 fans enjoyed watching two European club teams go at it Wednesday night. The near sellout certainly strengthens the Kraft family?s case for moving their Revolution soccer team from Gillette Stadium in Foxborough to a location closer to Boston. Whether a site in Somerville now under consideration is the best choice remains to be seen, but this week?s game demonstrated soccer?s magnetism at an urban field close to public transportation and the sport?s fan base of immigrants and families with children in youth soccer leagues.

Kids were out in force Wednesday. They and others in attendance witnessed a closely fought contest between Sporting Clube de Portugal and Celtic Football Club of Scotland. Judging by cheers at each goal during the 1-1 tie in regulation time, both clubs ? each older than Fenway Park itself ? have sizeable contingents of supporters in the Boston area. The play was not as silken as the best moments of the World Cup, but especially in the second half each team put the opposing goalie to the test.

The fans also got to see a bit of American football when a spectator started running across the pitch, only to be brought down by a security official in an open-field tackle that would have done the Patriots proud. A wave cheer and a halftime rendition of the Red Sox? eighth-inning anthem, ?Sweet Caroline,?? stamped the evening as a Fenway event. But soccer?s undeniable appeal to a diverse audience could generate equal enthusiasm at another Boston-area home, if the Krafts and local officials can agree on one.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2010/07/23/fenway_soccer_meets_sweet_caroline/

[portnorfolk]

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2010/07/23/fenway_soccer_meets_sweet_caroline/


I went to the game..sold out fenway despite rather b-list european club teams.

couple pics here,


http://www.flickr.com/photos/36557785@N02/4818290716/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36557785@N02/4818290716/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36557785@N02/4817667021/in/photostream/

[mass88]

I went to the game..sold out fenway despite rather b-list european club teams.

couple pics here,


http://www.flickr.com/photos/36557785@N02/4818290716/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36557785@N02/4818290716/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36557785@N02/4817667021/in/photostream/

I wouldn't go as far as to call Celtic and Sporting B list. They aren't Inter or Chelsea, but they sure are better than any MLS team.

Looks like the Revolution and Foxborough missed out on a rather busy European summer here in the U.S. Inter Milan, Tottenham, Manchester City, Manchester United and Real Madrid all have played matches here in the U.S.

[Hutchison]

That'd be because they were committed/busy with the SuperLiga and it wouldn't have been smart to eat up a break week with a friendly (at least for the team and not crowds/ratings)

[jass]

New stadium + new light rail?

....in texas

http://p.twimg.com/AnfV1WNCAAEUutJ.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/6807779488_600e9673fa_b.jpg
https://p.twimg.com/An-SxQ2CEAABqL4.jpg


Also, looking at the dates of the conversation in this thread is amusing.

[underground]

looking at the dates of the conversation in this thread is amusing.

Seriously. Building a stadium in East Somerville makes so much sense it should have been done 1000 times by now.

[Hutchison]

ownership recently threw out the teaser "we hope to make an announcement within 6 months"...not that the same hasn't been said before

[choo]

I think it would be wildly successful for so many reasons and with some many different uses (concerts, sports, festivals, practice facilities). Plus I am not a big soccer fan, couldnt name 1 person on the team and never been to a game. But I would go to a game if i could hop on the T, or in my case walk.

(I know nothing is announced, I actually just really like the thought of this one)

[MBTAddict]

I agree. A stadium that close would attract more casual fans, and if prices could be kept reasonable it could be the kind of thing you didn't really have to plan to go to way ahead of time.

[Officejab]

I think it would be wildly successful for so many reasons and with some many different uses (concerts, sports, festivals, practice facilities). Plus I am not a big soccer fan, couldnt name 1 person on the team and never been to a game. But I would go to a game if i could hop on the T, or in my case walk.

(I know nothing is announced, I actually just really like the thought of this one)

I'm in agreement with choo, I believe that a stadium in the Inner Belt/Brickbottom neighborhood would be a success if done correctly. That area should be one of the first stations completed on Green Line Extension http://briandistelberg.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/brickbottomstation_massdot.jpg and a 15-minute walk to Sullivan Sq. I went to one Revolution game a couple years back with my nephew who loves soccer and I was amazed that the roughly 18,000 fans could be that quiet. The atmosphere was terrible, driving back and forth in traffic sucked, and paying $15 for parking was the cherry on top, I doubt I'll go back to Foxboro for a Revs game again.

[underground]

My guess is that the Boston area has tons of soccer fans but not a ton of Revs fans because those people aren't also fans of sitting in traffic to drive to/from Foxboro.

[MBTAddict]

...I went to one Revolution game a couple years back with my nephew who loves soccer and I was amazed that the roughly 18,000 fans could be that quiet. The atmosphere was terrible, driving back and forth in traffic sucked, and paying $15 for parking was the cherry on top, I doubt I'll go back to Foxboro for a Revs game again.

And in a soccer specific stadium you'd be amazed how loud 18,000 fans can be. Gillette just eats up any noise that anyone at a Revs game can make. Put a soccer-specific stadium on the Green Line Extension and you'll see numbers go up and an entirely different atmosphere.

[HenryAlan]

Is the GLX the right place for this, considering we are at least 6 years away from that happening? Why not sight the stadium in Assembly Square?

[mass88]

There are a large number of soccer fans in and around Boston. There are a ton of European soccer fans. Look at the turnout for AC Milan-Inter Milan a few years ago. Or Manchester United this past summer. At the Spain-USA game, which drew over 63,000 people, most of the crowd were cheering for Spain.

The Revs need their own stadium and need it to be closer to Boston and mass transit. I think in a perfect world, they would build an 18-24,000 seat venue. Aside from the Revs games, the stadium could host national team matches, exhibitions when European clubs go on US summer tours, concerts, college sports, etc.

[mass88]

And in a soccer specific stadium you'd be amazed how loud 18,000 fans can be. Gillette just eats up any noise that anyone at a Revs game can make. Put a soccer-specific stadium on the Green Line Extension and you'll see numbers go up and an entirely different atmosphere.

The model should be Red Bull Arena in New Jersey, easily the best stadium in the MLS. Gillette in general is way too open and noise floats right out.

[cozzyd]

Is there enough room across from the Shaw's (Twin City Plaza) on Rt. 28. That area is pretty run down. Also, if anything is ever built on the Grand Junction line, that's approx where it would meet GLX so a stop might be necessary in the future anyway.

Or maybe a stadium could replace Suffolk Downs.

[TMcLaughlin]

Or maybe a stadium could replace Suffolk Downs.

Actually Wonderland has been considered, and last I heard is still being considered.

[choo]

Saw the Revs president on NECN business a week or so ago, he said the are very active in looking pursuing a site and hope to announce something relatively soon. I think if they announce somerville by end of year and the city and kraft push hard for the GLX it may help get it back on track.

[underground]

I'll cross all my fingers and toes.

[datadyne007]

I'll cross all my fingers and toes.

Me too! I'm dying for an urban stadium. The Revs announced a special student season pass this year for only $99, but it is fundamentally flawed because most students in the Boston area have no way to actually get to Gillette! I have a car and drive down all the time, but I'm in the minority.

[underground]

In related news, Liverpool/Roma at Fenway this summer.

[mass88]

In related news, Liverpool/Roma at Fenway this summer.

This match will have zero issues selling out. I enjoy reading all the comments on Boston.com and Bostonherald.com from people making fun of soccer, saying Henry is an idiot, playing soccer at Fenway is a waste, etc.

[HenryAlan]

John Henry is not in the habit of doing events that don't sell out.

[underground]

Celtic/Sporting Lisbon sold out when they had it at Fenway a couple of summers ago. There's no way LFC/ASR doesn't do the same, if not even quicker.

[bbfen]

Agree. It's amazing how many immigrant soccer fans live/work in Boston be it Central or South Americans or Romanian and other former Communist countries.

[underground]

My one request if the Revs move to Somerville is that they change their name to Somer Villa.

[MBTAddict]

My one request if the Revs move to Somerville is that they change their name to Somer Villa.

That would be amazing. I'm all for it.

[JS38]

Related, a cool virtual tour of the Green Line Extension into Somerville:

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/somerville/2012/04/somerville_group_offers_virtua.html?p1=Well_Local_ YourTownlinks

[BeeLine]

Looks like the brickbottom site is dead. Assembly Sq. and Wonderland are in the running.
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2012/10/somerville-revere-finalists-for-revs.html

[Ron Newman]

Brickbottom/Inner Belt would be logistically difficult compared to Assembly Square, where land has already been cleared where IKEA had planned to go.