Van's Moderation Policy

[JimboJones]

Hi.

Thanks for that post.

I'd much prefer that people feel free to post whatever they want, without fear that their comments will be deleted - one person's comment is another person's insult, if you know what I mean.

Asking that people be more civil is one thing. Requiring it, however, seems heavy-handed.

The level of comments doesn't seem so much offensive as childish, irrelevant, or misguided.

I have been guilty of this, myself - I made a pretty stupid joke a couple months' back, and was so embarrassed that I expelled myself from the board.

I wish I could just read the updates on developments on this board, without the "bickering" as you put it, but I'm willing to take the bad with the good.

If the "quality" of argument was better, maybe we'd all be happy?

[vanshnookenraggen]

It's not that I don't want people to post what they feel, it is that I don't want someone to post something inflammatory and then have 10 posts after it screaming and calling names. If you want to bitch and moan and call each other names just do it in the Politics forum, not here.

[DudeUrSistersHot]

I don't think that you should ever be deleting posts unless they are blatantly ridiculous and offensive (for example, "fuck you you cocksucker" with no other text related to the topic in the post). You recently deleted a post of mine where I said nothing offensive and merely stated my opinion on the topic of the post, and you were completely out of line in deleting it. I would request that you restore it because i had a number of thought-out comments in it that I should not have to think of again.

if someone posts something offensive, ignore it for a while. if they become an ongoing problem, contact them and discuss it. you should not be deleting the posts of others out of hand, this is unhelpful censorship and briv should not tolerate it. and in the occassional (reasonably this should be kept to less than 1/month) deletion, posts should not just disappear, they should say <moderator deletion> or something of the like.

[TheBostonBoy]

^ Ya I completely agree with Dude on this one. You definitely shouldn't just delete posts without saying a word about it or indicating it. I know what Dude means because you have deleted a few posts of mine, most of which did not contain the offensive stuff we said, but were thought out statements on the topic, and when I went back to check on it, I was stunned cause I could have sworn I put something their, and I realized I did. (Longest run on sentence lol) And I was pissed because I didn't want to recollect my thoughts which I had forgot. So my point is you definitely need to inform the person before just deleting stuff like that and also indicate it. I hate going to a thread and I'll see some posts their one day, then the next day their is a huge gap between some old posts and some new ones which I felt I had missed a whole statement because you blatantly erased some unpleasing posts. So the warning would definitely be great for deleting. Pretty much just go with what Dude said, he put it a lot better than I did.
Van besides this I think you are doing a great job, and their really have not been too many offense posts and arguments in New Development for a while. Luckily it all remains in the Politics and General lol Keep up the good work!

[vanshnookenraggen]

TheBostonBoy: I do admit that I probably acted a bit too harsh with you and I am sorry. The reason I posted this is because I have been uneven with my moderation and I want to change that. The reason I deleted those posts is that it created a page long argument that was annoying at least and petty at worst. I don't think this reflects well on this forum and I don't like to see it happen.

Dude:You don't get it do you? It is what you say that pisses people off and makes them not want to read this forum.
I don't think that you should ever be deleting posts unless they are blatantly ridiculous and offensive
Most of your posts fit this.
You recently deleted a post of mine where I said nothing offensive and merely stated my opinion on the topic of the post
The fact that you see no problem with what you said IS the problem.
I would request that you restore it because i had a number of thought-out comments in it that I should not have to think of again.
You shouldn't have thought them in the first place.
posts should not just disappear, they should say <moderator deletion> or something of the like.
I agree and I will try this in the future.
-Van

[Mike]

So here's the deal so you all know, if I see a post that is blatantly offensive, ignorant, or insulting, I am going to delete it out right. If there are a series of posts about an offensive comment I will either delete them (if I feel they add no merit to the thread topic) or I will move them off this board and let their participants get it out of their system.

-Van

Sounds good to me.

[Ron Newman]

I'd like to see this applied everywhere -- Existing Development, Architecture, etc.

[czsz]

Agreed.

[DudeUrSistersHot]

The problem here is when you bring in deletion of posts that are "ignorant" or "insulting". I agree on the concept of "blatantly offensive' posts.

My post was about my opinion that poor people are statistically more likely to commit crimes than rich people. Note that I did NOT swear in it, did NOT attack anyone in it, I merely presented my opinion, which you should note was ON-TOPIC in the thread. You didn't like my opinion, so you deleted my post. This is not acceptable behavior for a moderator.

[vanshnookenraggen]

If you don't like it you can just stop coming here.

[z-money]

While I appreciate the work you have done as 'moderator', and agree that posts should not be personally offensive or insulting, I think deleting posts (which may or may not be based on ignorance), is more in line with actions of a 'dictator'.

At the very least you should put your 'post deletion rules' to a vote.

I tend not to agree with the dude's opinions, but I certainly disagree with your censorship.

[KentXie]

I don't see the problem here. Most forums have moderators deleting post they find that are unwarranted or causes flame wars. Its better than locking the whole thread up which moderators at SSC tend to do. I agree with your methods 100% of the way Van.

[singbat]

i appreciate your work -- especially where you move wandering posts to a well labeled new thread.

i'd only request that you generally try to err on the side of free expression.

[DudeUrSistersHot]

ok i admittedly was a bit of a dick in my last post, and as such i apologise - not for the substance of what i said, but for the unproductive tone in which i said it.

my suggestion is that you should let things go to a certain extent, if it develops into a useless flame war (a large one, more than a 2 or 3 posts, and the posts are not only insulting but they aren't even adding to a discussion), pm people and ask them to tone it down. over time, if they continually have to be warned, go beyond that and take action (i still dont think that action should be deleting posts).

That's what briv always did and it was certainly pretty effective, imo. after i continually went too far, he pmed me and i toned it down out of respect to him.

[vanshnookenraggen]

my suggestion is that you should let things go to a certain extent, if it develops into a useless flame war (a large one, more than a 2 or 3 posts, and the posts are not only insulting but they aren't even adding to a discussion)

That is what I try to prevent by deleting posts. I hate having to sift through 12 pages only to find that a number of them are just retarded flame wars.

[DudeUrSistersHot]

my suggestion is that you should let things go to a certain extent, if it develops into a useless flame war (a large one, more than a 2 or 3 posts, and the posts are not only insulting but they aren't even adding to a discussion)

That is what I try to prevent by deleting posts. I hate having to sift through 12 pages only to find that a number of them are just retarded flame wars.

i understand the reason you do it, but i just think that some of the flame wars (the ones that don't develop into useless ad-homeim crap, but still have useless stuff mixed in) should not only be left in but do contribute the the forum, as much as they may annoy some

[justin]

This forum worked just fine for years without a moderator, because it was populated by people mature enough to realize that the word 'douchebag' cannot conceivably be relevant to their shared interest. But then came the children...

I have no serious objection to vansh's moderation so far. At times he is, to my taste, a bit over-zealous in classifying things by topic. The best threads on this forum are extended conversations, and those naturally tend to meander a bit: just as an example, I would have left the short Reichstag discussion in its original thread, inasmuch as it concerns architecture in a context which is a potentially relevant model for Boston. But that's not what I care to argue here; the point is that so long as we have a philosopher-king, no matter how competent and benevolent, his decisions will always be open to complaints which are really no more informative than the original posts moved or deleted. Much better, in my mind, to have an enforcer of a short and widely accepted list of standards (I'd call it a constitution but I don't want to go legalistic or to displace judgement, merely frame it).

So here's my proposal:

1. Ad hominems -- name calling without substance or argument -- will be sumarily deleted.

2. A thread in the architecture-related sections (new & existing development, other cities) will be deemed to have gone off-topic if either

a) the discussion still concerns an architecture or visual arts subject different from the topic at hand and has gone on for more than a page or

b) the discussion concerns a non-architectural (usually social) topic and has gone on for more than half a page.

Off-topic discussions will be hived off to separate threads and linked.
--
This pretty much codifies what vansh has been doing, but it might help cool things down to have it spelled out. Vansh, you might also consider using private warnings, as well as marking the deleted posts not just as 'moderator deleted' but 'moderator deleted immature/offensive/irrelevant comment'. Public shaming is a fine social conditioning mechanism.

It's a bit sad that it has come to this; consideration and thoughtfulness from each one of us, including BostonBoy, Dude and Bobby, are still the best way of maintaining the good atmosphere on the forum.

justin

[kz1000ps]

^ i bet thebostonboy could kick the shit out of you dude.

Here's a new gem from the drunken idiot of the board, and exhibit A in what's wrong with this place as of late. Now I normally bite my tongue and try to hold off on calling people names, but it's obvious that he just doesn't get it, and my patience for his dragging this place down is wearing VERY thin.

Bobby, you do realize you're starting shit with people on a friggin online discussion forum, and you're not out at the bars, right?

[KentXie]

^^However, if you read the post before it, Dude is actually the one beginning this with his comment who's sole purpose is to mimick TheBostonBoy and belittle him because of his immaturity.

[statler]

Guys,

Van can't babysit this place 24/7. Give him some time.

Just ignore the trolls until he comes in to clean up.

[KentXie]

I'm starting to think that this forum should start brigging people. So far in this forum, I see the same people starting up trivial disputes and it is time initiate some sort of action to stop this.

[Ron Newman]

"brigging" -- I don't know what this word means.

[Mike]

"brigging" -- I don't know what this word means.


On the skyscrapercity board it means a temporary ban.

[Bobby Digital]

^ i bet thebostonboy could kick the shit out of you dude.

Here's a new gem from the drunken idiot of the board, and exhibit A in what's wrong with this place as of late. Now I normally bite my tongue and try to hold off on calling people names, but it's obvious that he just doesn't get it, and my patience for his dragging this place down is wearing VERY thin.

Bobby, you do realize you're starting shit with people on a friggin online discussion forum, and you're not out at the bars, right?


i wasnt starting shit with anybody. I was sticking up for thebostonboy. somebody's gotta do it. poor kid gets reamed on this board on a daily basis by you college kids that think you above everybody.

kz go look at how many times i start shit with people unprovoked. seriously.

[KentXie]

^ i bet thebostonboy could kick the shit out of you dude.

Here's a new gem from the drunken idiot of the board, and exhibit A in what's wrong with this place as of late. Now I normally bite my tongue and try to hold off on calling people names, but it's obvious that he just doesn't get it, and my patience for his dragging this place down is wearing VERY thin.

Bobby, you do realize you're starting shit with people on a friggin online discussion forum, and you're not out at the bars, right?


i wasnt starting shit with anybody. I was sticking up for thebostonboy. somebody's gotta do it. poor kid gets reamed on this board on a daily basis by you college kids that think you above everybody.

kz go look at how many times i start shit with people unprovoked. seriously.
I have to agree with Bobby. If you are going to delete his post, you might as well delete Dude's. It does not contribute to anything and is there to only annoy TheBostonBoy.

Seriously, the only one who needs to grow up the most out of anyone here is Dude. He acts like a bully to people he deems insignificant to him and only reflects on how childish he really is.

[vanshnookenraggen]

It's funny, I became moderator because of things Dude was posting and now he has the most problem with what I'm doing. Who would'a thunk it?! :lol:

[BostonObserver]

Should we ban dude?

http://architecturalboston.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=546

I think dude and bobbydigital are the same user.

[Bobby Digital]

^ if we are the same person, why would we take shots at each other? come on.

[BostonObserver]

^ if we are the same person, why would we take shots at each other? come on.

Because I was hoping there was only one immature CLOSETED big mouth loser on this thread.

[Bobby Digital]

you know when say shit like that you completely undermine yourself.

do i know you? no. have i offended you in some way? no. and YOUR calling ME names. wait wait, who's immature again?

i think you mean on this board, not on this thread Mr. Newton.

[TheBostonBoy]

Please keep me out of this! Lol I know I started out with some difficulties, but for the last like 2-2.5 months I haven't started anything. I hardly ever argue or "provoke" here in New Development, and I keep most of my rants or rude remarks in the sections of this site that were made for it (e.g. General, Politics) and even when someone has given me shit or provoked me (namely Dude) I have stayed out of it and just let it go. I also think Bobby needs to be forgiven a little bit, because he definitely has not done anything either, except defended himself and me occasionally (than you) from the remarks of some bullies like Dude. OKAY, Dude is THE Bully of this site, at least in my eyes, and if anything he is the most immature, even more so than the younger crowd like me. He just seems like he wants to start some sort of argument or pointless flame war with everyone. I have a lot of respect for everybody on this board, and I really have been behaving myself, so please don't say I have been in some of those stupid pointless arguments and have provoked stuff, cause we know I haven't. I think it is definitely unfair and pointless for these things to be going on in here, and I understand Van's plight. He definitely should not have to go through thread after thread deleting these types of posts and trying to calm everyone down. We must take it upon ourselves to censor our discussions and get along with each other, and let Van go through once in a while to moderate and make sure everything is going alright. I think it is fine for Van to delete rude and offense posts and whatnot, as long as he kinda let's the person know so we aren't completely baffled by a post missing. All in all, keep up the good work man and I and hopefully others will try to help make your job a hell of a lot easier.

[DudeUrSistersHot]

this whole thread is getting ridiculous

the difference between me and bobby digital is that my comments are generally humorous or joking in nature, while his are angry and retarded. im making jokes, hes swearing.

generally the things people find offensive about me are opinions, not me cursing out people and getting angry (i dont really do that), and personally i would hope that having someone with different, albeit extreme, opinions would help people reconsider their traditional beliefs.

now lets stop bitching and moaning and censoring and get back to the topic at hand.

i like justin's idea, but i think the problem that van makes despite his good intentions is deleting posts. if you delete bobby digital's most offensive post and move on, you're not encouraging positive behavior because youre not actually contacting him and asking him to stop, youre just deleting it. and so it continues, and you delete more, and it gets to a point where censorship is going on and none of us are learning from our mistakes

briv talked to me once or twice and i corrected my mistakes because i respected him and the way he cam and talked to me instead of just deleting what i wrote.

[NIMBOB]

If you don't like it you can just stop coming here.

That argument can be made both ways. If you don't like what Dude is saying, you can stop coming here.

This whole discussion seems be turning into a "mature" vs. "immature" argument. A certain group of immature people are offending a certain group of mature people and those mature people can't endure another moment of this offensive speech.

Couldn't it be argued that a truly mature person doesn't have to act like their mother has been just shot every time someone says something disagreeable (even if it is put in a non-constructive manner)? If you think that Dude is an annoying prick, ignore him. Be confident in your beliefs, but don't act like every foolish comment is an assault on your good senses and swear revenge.

Instead of wasting time trying to arbitrate what comments are offensive or off-topic, allow people the option to scroll past them.

[palindrome]

Holy fucking shit.


Anyone who has been on another forum realizes that moderation is pretty commonplace. People who start flame wars saying stupid shit are banned. plain and simple. Why should i have to scroll past 10 posts of needless flaming to get to some relevant information about a project. This forum is first and foremost a place to discuss ongoing and future developments in Boston in a mature manner. If you want to act like a child take it to www.genmay.com or some other forum.

It's really not that hard people. Vash you have been doing good job. Please keep deleting needless flame bait posts, and move off topic posts to another part of the forum for further discussion.

[shiz02130]

^ Agreed.

Van, thanks for the time and effort you've put in to keep this site more faithful to the purpose for which it was originally intended. Those of us who have been coming here for years, and can remember when the discourse was considerably more on-topic, thought-out and "mature" - and are really busy and therefore have no interest in wasting our time scrolling through a bunch of irrelevant crap - are grateful.

If Boston is about to begin another "boom," then we should have plenty of pictures to look at, designs to criticize, and issues to discuss over the next couple of years...I don't understand why anyone who's genuinely interested in discussing architecture and urban development would want to make this environment less interesting and less valuable for the other members of this community.

But if people insist of detracting from the overall quality of the board, I think Van or Briv are entitled to the quality-control measures they think are necessary.

[KentXie]

this whole thread is getting ridiculous

the difference between me and bobby digital is that my comments are generally humorous or joking in nature, while his are angry and retarded. im making jokes, hes swearing.

Your post in response to TheBostonBoy was neither humorous nor an opinion, it was mimicking him and all that would do is start a flame war. I mean come on:

Ya, so the two towers are done then??? That's a bummer, that was my favorite part of this project

ya totally a huge bummer dude.

those towers were like wicked sick and stuff
I mean how does this contribute to the thread? It does not. It may be humorous to you but not other people.

[vanshnookenraggen]

I think this thread is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I left it open for a civil discussion about the forum moderation and it has turned into an immature cat fight. Seriously Dude, Bobby D, grow up!

[theculprit]

Why don't we just have set rules and guidelines. While I am not a fan of kicking anybody off the site I do think threads such as these should be removed from ones that have to do with projects. I forget who said it, but it makes no sense to have to scroll through this garbage to get to something that is actually on topic. I'm guilty of this, so I'll be better about this. All van has to do is move those arguments from the thread into another. It really solves all the problems. Everyone is entitled to their opinions however while responding to new development lets just try to stay on topic.

[DudeUrSistersHot]

Why don't we just have set rules and guidelines. While I am not a fan of kicking anybody off the site I do think threads such as these should be removed from ones that have to do with projects. I forget who said it, but it makes no sense to have to scroll through this garbage to get to something that is actually on topic. I'm guilty of this, so I'll be better about this. All van has to do is move those arguments from the thread into another. It really solves all the problems. Everyone is entitled to their opinions however while responding to new development lets just try to stay on topic.

how about people who think theyre too important to have to look at "trolling posts" SKIP PAST THEM and stop WHINING LIKE BABIES

and people who think theyre funny read them

and lets stop making such a goddamn big deal about everything and deleting shit.

2 examples:

"youre a stupid motherfucking toolbag and if i ever say you in real life id kick your motherfucking ass bitch"

^completely irrelevant to the discussion. warn the person, if he continues to write like that, final warning (dont delete or move the posts cause its not going to prevent future behavior)

.

"i think people in chinatown should stop being nimbys and just learn to deal with changes. ron is just being his annoying liberal self and acting like everyone has the right to stay where they live and be insulated against price increases. thats completely ridiculous"

^relevant to the discussion if somewhat uncouth. let it go. if an argument starts, the mod should step in and ask all involved to tone it down before they get in trouble. if someone continues this over a long period pm them and ask them politely to tone it down.

less micromanagement results in more respect of the rules because an abrogation of them is criticized by the community and eventually acted upon by someone in a higher authority. more micromanagement results in disrespect of the rules because people know their stuff will just ge t deleted

[PerfectHandle]

ron is just being his annoying liberal self


Completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Engage the arguments and avoid taking potshots at people and you'll be alright. You seem unable to do that, which is why so many people on here dislike you.

[DudeUrSistersHot]

ron is just being his annoying liberal self


Completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Engage the arguments and avoid taking potshots at people and you'll be alright. You seem unable to do that, which is why so many people on here dislike you.

Do you understand the concept of an example? I wasn't saying that that's a good thing to say, I'm saying it's a post with some bad stuff but on the whole it is on topic and we should let it slide.

logic, anyone?

[ablarc]

This whole thread is a bunch of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[TheBostonBoy]

Ya, I find it funny and ironic that a thread about peoples behavior in New Development and setting rules for it, has turned into a huge argument, and flame war, even though, that is the thing this thread is about stopping. Just ridiculous lol

[vanshnookenraggen]

lol, indeed.