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garbribre
06-14-2006, 05:53 PM
To parallel the discussion that began with statler's post in the open thread--

Choke on this info! :)

It's all relative because the prices out here in California are so far off base in comparison to even NYC Metro and Boston and the DC area.

Sales of homes worth $1 million or more, by state

State/ 2000/ 2005/ % Change

California/ 11,365/ 48,666/ 328%
Florida/ 2,703/ 14,567/ 439%
New York/ 1,074/ 6,784/ 532%
Maryland/ 604/ 3,323/ 450%
Massachusetts/ 1,408/ 3,292/ 134%
Arizona/ 640/ 3,175/ 396%
Illinois/ 931/ 3,082/ 231%
Virginia/ na/ 2,799/ na
Washington/ 712/ 2,404/ 238%
Connecticut/ 1,187/ 2,401/ 102%
Nevada/ 294/ 1,898/ 546%
New Jersey/ 406/ 1,796/ 342%
Colorado/ 341/ 1,682/ 393%
Hawaii/ 320/ 1,537/ 380%
Pennsylvania/ 281/ 923/ 228%

U.S./ 26,800/ 109,113/ 307%

I still find it infathomable that homes in my neighborhood in Oakland are routinely going for over $1M now. Most are still in the $750K-950K region. And they're not that big, either, just old(er).

[Edit--Sorry, cannot figure out how to maintain the column format. Separated the diffierent columns of info by slashes: ' / '.]

Patrick
06-14-2006, 06:56 PM
I wonder how much of the high home prices in oakland is attributed to the high incomes that people earn over there (which would drive up the bargaining power of all buyer's leading the prices to rise while quality stays put)? For instance, the house i grew up in in portland would go for over a million dollars in wellesley, mass, simply because everyone down there is willing and able to pay for the convenience of living near boston....same thing going on in cali? do the people in oakland where you live make ginormous salaries, or is a 1 million dollar home crippling to most of the locals there?

oh yeah and where are the rest of the states on your list, like the more rural places like maine and new hampshire etc? was the list only of the larger and more populated states? the reason i ask is because there was an article in the portland papers over the winter about the increase in sales of $1 million homes in maine last year...

garbribre
06-14-2006, 08:00 PM
This was just the top tier of the list. I didn't copy the rest of it, and I've since lost the source material. Doh!

Salaries are not all that different here than in NYC or Boston. Well, not mine anyway. In fact, I was making more in 1995 than I make now. Most of my friends have moved (Chicago, DC, Atlanta, southern California, or overseas, back where they were born) to escape the outrageous cost of living here. Many have tried to move with their companies and maintained their 'inflated' Bay Area salaries.

My friends who have remained are not living easily or well out here. Most are struggling and, like me, wondering if they have an immediate future in the Bay Area. I cannot afford the kind of home I'd want here. I refuse to commute long distances. Some of them have moved 30-50 miles away in order to pay 300-400K for a two bedroom suburban sprawl condo, just to get into the housing market. And to choke your wallet further, they are all paying well over $2,500K or more a month mortgages. Add to that the $3.50 gas prices and the overall higher energy costs (all those sprawl development areas 30-50 miles away are essentially in the desert), and many of them cannot buy decent groceries. It's not living; it's merely existing. (to misquote Nona Hendrix--another overlooked Soul/Blues/Rock singer/songwriter--reference to another thread--sorry.)

Oh, the stories I could tell you about my house hunting. (I've given up and resigned to renting.) My friends in throes of buying something, who I mentioned in an earlier post, have gone through hell to get what they want. They get excited about something I'd call marginal and an extreme fixer-upper. They just got lucky and swooped in on a house in a good area but outside their distance radius, and still had to go $50K over asking just to be taken seriously. They are considering the counter offer today. They are so desperate to complete the process they've added $30K beyond their limit. Between them they have a fairly deep into $100K combined income, and they are completely priced out.

Patrick
06-14-2006, 11:07 PM
sounds rough out there...why not move back east?

Patrick
06-14-2006, 11:14 PM
Maine -

The $110 million Westin Hotel and Residences was approved in December. Ralph Izzi, a spokesman for the Procaccianti Group, said from that company?s offices in Rhode Island on Friday that the project is going ?full force ahead,? even though demolition of the old Jordan Meats building, originally scheduled for January, won?t happen for several more weeks.

He said sales of 70 luxury condominiums, priced between $550,000 and $5 million, are where the company expected, although he would not provide specifics.The project is targeted for completion in early 2008.

http://www.theforecaster.net/story.php?storyid=5605&ftype=search

garbribre
06-19-2006, 06:56 PM
Why not move back to Boston, you ask? Do you read the humorless, pissy shit posted here. That's one reason. :roll: Plus Boston is no economic picnic either, at least in the inner-belt burbs. The other place I could live, outside New England, would be NYC. Again...unlikely. One of my sister's friends sings the praises of PHOENIX :?: :!: , but...um...it's the desert. I don't know...it all seems okay on the surface...if you like LA sized sprawl...which I don't.

Another reason: the Bay Area has everything I want. I am never at a loss for anything I want to experience, explore, do, eat, indulge, and the wine wine wine. :D Recall, that my favorite place on the planet is the Mediterranean Coast. The Bay Area is the most equatable...weather-wise and terrain. I never thought I could 'fall in love' with a place. I have.

So... you suffer with a cost of living that people in Monaco might envy. (jk!) Feh! as my Eastern European granny would say.

BTW--my friends won their recent bidding war (after six previous bidding attempt on other properties). Their first victory. Now the roughest part--the real games begin. Every monkey wrench has been thrown at them since their offer was accepted--over their limit, an unexpected ding on a credit report, a suddenly decreased credit score on the principal borrower due to one late truck payment, and a mortgage broker who screwed up and didn't lock them in soon enough creating a 7-1/4% interest rate, when they could have been locked in at 6% or even under. (Shopping for a new broker now.) The whole industry is such a scam. Typical human-harangued game. People needlessly complicate everything, eh.

And you wonder why it can take so long to develop properties.

BTW--you aren't working this summer, interning at some development company, or at the Portland city or Maine state economic development office? What's with that, doughboy?

Patrick
06-19-2006, 09:00 PM
Why not move back to Boston, you ask? Do you read the humorless, pissy shit posted here. That's one reason. :roll: Plus Boston is no economic picnic either, at least in the inner-belt burbs. The other place I could live, outside New England, would be NYC. Again...unlikely. One of my sister's friends sings the praises of PHOENIX :?: :!: , but...um...it's the desert. I don't know...it all seems okay on the surface...if you like LA sized sprawl...which I don't.

Another reason: the Bay Area has everything I want. I am never at a loss for anything I want to experience, explore, do, eat, indulge, and the wine wine wine. :D Recall, that my favorite place on the planet is the Mediterranean Coast. The Bay Area is the most equatable...weather-wise and terrain. I never thought I could 'fall in love' with a place. I have.

So... you suffer with a cost of living that people in Monaco might envy. (jk!) Feh! as my Eastern European granny would say.

BTW--my friends won their recent bidding war (after six previous bidding attempt on other properties). Their first victory. Now the roughest part--the real games begin. Every monkey wrench has been thrown at them since their offer was accepted--over their limit, an unexpected ding on a credit report, a suddenly decreased credit score on the principal borrower due to one late truck payment, and a mortgage broker who screwed up and didn't lock them in soon enough creating a 7-1/4% interest rate, when they could have been locked in at 6% or even under. (Shopping for a new broker now.) The whole industry is such a scam. Typical human-harangued game. People needlessly complicate everything, eh.

And you wonder why it can take so long to develop properties.



oh man the bay area sounds so beautiful. lots of filipinos over there? My girlfriend has family in the surrounding area, and I think we will have to go there sometime soon because it sounds like probably the best city in america. I was going to apply to LS out there, but my gf thought it was too far away from her family and our "home," maine. But, at least we are now living in the number two city in terms of restaurants per person, san fran being number one.

your friends hassles seem outrageous but believable at the same time, that must be rough.


BTW--you aren't working this summer, interning at some development company, or at the Portland city or Maine state economic development office? What's with that, doughboy?

I will soon begin working this summer at the Boys & Girl's Club in downtown portland as a coordinator for the reading and learning centers. I think it will be a very meaningful job as I will get to help many kids who are economically disadvantaged, im sure. I dont know too many of my friends who would take a job like this, and it makes me wanna take it all the more.

In my "extra" time I will be gutting hotel rooms and turning them into Condominiums in Kennebunk with an old wrestling teamate of mine. Just havent started work yet because Im trying to secure a loan for next year, and that is proving to be quite difficult (proof of income when i have none, proof of enrollment for next year when I am not yet in fact enrolled until AUgust officially, and co-signer needed etc etc etc). plus i need the time to rest after such a LONG 4 years in dreery vermont.

But you are right on the doughboy part, i put on 70 lbs in college, and i have the stretch marks on my left arm to prove it. I have been running every day for two weeks to counter my fat ass attack, but so far no luck. haha we'll see how the rest of the summer goes, hopefully better.

garbribre
06-22-2006, 03:20 PM
^Lots of Filipinos out here to allow you to indulge in your fetish. :wink:

Sounds like a good combination of summer jobs--away from the studies you plan on immersing yourself in for the next three years--a bit of mind and a bit of matter--to sweat away the NNE winter blubber. Ha!

Here's a link to one of the premier palatial estates in the Bay Area. Scroll down below the text for good pics of SF Bay (as well as the house). Purportedly listing for $50Mil, but I cannot get confirmation.

http://www.deckerbullock.com/scripts/inventory_item.asp?p_homes_id=282

Patrick
06-22-2006, 05:16 PM
^Lots of Filipinos out here to allow you to indulge in your fetish. :wink:

Sounds like a good combination of summer jobs--away from the studies you plan on immersing yourself in for the next three years--a bit of mind and a bit of matter--to sweat away the NNE winter blubber. Ha!

Here's a link to one of the premier palatial estates in the Bay Area. Scroll down below the text for good pics of SF Bay (as well as the house). Purportedly listing for $50Mil, but I cannot get confirmation.

http://www.deckerbullock.com/scripts/inventory_item.asp?p_homes_id=282

fetish? nah...

girlfriend of ten years who is filipino? yeah...

she has lots of family out there and I hear many more have relocated there as well. I was curious if they had a noticeable presence. One reason she told me I could not apply to law school in san diego is because of all the filipinas there (about 20,000)....she was half kidding, but that means she was half serious too.

those houses/estates look breath taking.

bosdevelopment
06-22-2006, 10:44 PM
^Lots of Filipinos out here to allow you to indulge in your fetish. :wink:



gross.

Patrick
06-23-2006, 12:32 AM
^Lots of Filipinos out here to allow you to indulge in your fetish. :wink:



gross.

?? he was just joking.

Waldorf
06-23-2006, 01:38 AM
He got scared because he saw the word fetish.

garbribre
06-23-2006, 03:45 PM
^ **snicker**

Like ya'll on this forum aren't fetishizing buildings and skyscrapers... :P

I have a good friend who is 1/4 Filipino 1/4 Mexican 1/4 American Indian 1/4 German. What an intriguing mix, eh? She's into all things Filipino. :wink: (If I posted her pic here, she'd kill me.)

BTW--I frequently attend the Filipino Festival in SF. It's not much, but there's an active community center in the SOMA area.

There are a number of Pacific Islander festivals here throughout the summer/fall. One year, I learned to make poi (yuck!). Another year, some dish, I forget the name and ingredients, served in banana leaves. These festivals conduct workshops, teaching traditional beading, cooking, music, dancing, etc. Each year, I do a new one.

Patrick
06-23-2006, 06:18 PM
^ **snicker**

Like ya'll on this forum aren't fetishizing buildings and skyscrapers... :P

I have a good friend who is 1/4 Filipino 1/4 Mexican 1/4 American Indian 1/4 German. What an intriguing mix, eh? She's into all things Filipino. :wink: (If I posted her pic here, she'd kill me.)

BTW--I frequently attend the Filipino Festival in SF. It's not much, but there's an active community center in the SOMA area.

There are a number of Pacific Islander festivals here throughout the summer/fall. One year, I learned to make poi (yuck!). Another year, some dish, I forget the name and ingredients, served in banana leaves. These festivals conduct workshops, teaching traditional beading, cooking, music, dancing, etc. Each year, I do a new one.

nice, sounds very cultural there, as I imagined it would be from the stories I hear.

I know that dish to which you are refering in the banan leaves, i have had it before. cant remember the name, but there is some yellowish/whitish semi-solid substance in it if i remember correctly that is rather sweet....right? or am i thinking of something else. filipino food is tremendous in my opinion. Boston has a large filipino festival/convention every year put on by PAMAS, but im sure its nothing like in cali.

bosdevelopment
06-23-2006, 06:30 PM
some Filipinos are still practicing cannibals.

statler
06-23-2006, 06:33 PM
Please ignore the obvious troll.

http://troll.freeservers.com/japant.jpg

garbribre
06-23-2006, 06:42 PM
Please ignore the obvious troll.

gross.

Patrick
06-23-2006, 06:44 PM
some Filipinos are still practicing cannibals.

Statler, your image comment is appreciated. But I am still going to respond, though not angrily.

Bosdev - I think those to whom you are refering are what are known as "natives" of the P.I. and they live in remote areas of the jungle...there is very little connection between them and a filipino-american, or even a mainstream filipino from the P.I.

it is similar to how some aboriginal tribes practice swallowing semen as a right of passage to adulthood, but of course not all australians drink up.

the filipinos on the discovery channel are not the type of people that exist in manilla, one of the biggest cities in the world. and they're not the types that exist in the bay area or elsewhere in the u.s

most of them, in fact, are more similar to the spanish, since the P.I. were a colony of spain over 500 years ago. most filipino names are spanish in origin, and many are light skinned.

are you aware of the difference?

garbribre
06-23-2006, 06:48 PM
most of them, in fact, are more similar to the spanish, since the P.I. were a colony of spain over 500 years ago. most filipino names are spanish in origin, and many are light skinned.

So that's why my friend's last name is Chavez?!

I never knew that, patrick.

archBost educates me in ways I never knew possible!
(And in ways I've regretted.) :P

Patrick
06-24-2006, 05:27 PM
most of them, in fact, are more similar to the spanish, since the P.I. were a colony of spain over 500 years ago. most filipino names are spanish in origin, and many are light skinned.

So that's why my friend's last name is Chavez?!

I never knew that, patrick.

archBost educates me in ways I never knew possible!
(And in ways I've regretted.) :P

yep, and that's also why the P.I. are named what they are, after King Philip of Spain.

The islands were later annexed by the U.S. I believe in 1898.

garbribre
06-27-2006, 08:56 PM
I was walking to lunch from work and I passed a street sign in SOMA, near the Filipino Community Center, on one of the small service/alley-like streets with the name Lapu Lapu. Curious--wonder what it means? Does your gf have any insight, patrick.

Now to get this thread somewhat back on topic, here are a few homes in the 'ghetto' of Oakland, which contribute to it being one of the most expensive places in the country to live.

These multi-million dollar mansions exist in the Oakland foothills and Piedmont districts. Hundreds of them dot the foothills. Brookline, eat your heart out. :)

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8596/overgrownhobbity8nr.jpg

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/4602/brooklineoroakland31kn.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5664/brooklineoroakland22uj.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9577/brooklineoroakland16oi.jpg

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3457/got8mil8nc.jpg

Couldn't get close enough to this one. Sorry, I had to zoom on a hazy day with a point and shoot. Monstrous!
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/7869/estatesalehouse6au.jpg

Still think Oakland is any more or less 'ghetto' than wherever you live?
(I mean the collective 'you' on this forum, not just patrick.)

I took more pics of the houses around there, but I won't post them until somebody expresses some interest. (If you don't already know, I like dense housing neighborhoods, even if those homes are somewhat steroidal.)

Patrick
06-27-2006, 09:49 PM
Lapu-Lapu was a native island warrior of the P.I. and he led a group of men against ferdinand magellan in resistance to Spanish colonization attempts, and it was in this battle that Magellan was killed. Lapu-Lapu is thus the first national hero of the Philippines. He was a muslim chieftan, but as you know, most Filipinos today are Catholic. The reason for this being that ultimately the resistance failed and like much of latin america the P.I. were conquered and colonized by extremely Catholic Spain.

Wow those houses are impressive. I am shocked, seriously, i never would have thought those places existed in oakland. Since i am young, the only exposure to oakland i get is in hip hop songs that sing about the ghetto...those certainly disprove my preconception of the city. thanks for posting and i would be interested if you posted more.

oh yeah and P.S. Lapu Lapu is also the name of a city named in honor of the man, so the street sign could be like if we were in the Philippines and saw a street that said New York Ave.

DowntownDave
06-28-2006, 07:19 AM
I took more pics of the houses around there, but I won't post them until somebody expresses some interest. (If you don't already know, I like dense housing neighborhoods, even if those homes are somewhat steroidal.)

Well *I* want to see them.... Where are the interior shots of the Oakland Paramount? Where are the photos of historic Oakland? Somebody is slacking off over there... :)

As for Lapu Lapu, the Spanish tall ship over in the grey seas thread is named for the guy who took over Magellan's fleet after Lapu Lapu killed Magellan. How's that for synchronicity? :)

Patrick
06-28-2006, 02:24 PM
Market for $1 million-plus homes growing in Maine

POLAND ? The million-dollar home used to be a rarity in Maine. Now you can find hundreds of them on the market.

The real estate boom of recent years has pushed up the number of homes in Maine with price tags of more than $1 million.

There are 416 houses for sale in the state with an asking price of $1 million or more, while another 28 have sales pending, according to Colon Durrell, president of the Maine Real Estate Information System and a real estate agent in Wilton. In the past year, 196 houses have sold for more than $1 million.

Those numbers don't surprise Valerie Lamont, director of the Institute for Real Estate Research and Business at the University of Southern Maine.

Part of the push comes from the baby-boom generation, which is looking for investment opportunities and for second homes that have the potential to become year-round homes.

"Certainly the limited discussions I've had suggest it's the out-of-staters pushing this market," Lamont said.

One of those pricey homes is an 8,000-square-foot house with 550 feet of frontage on Tripp Lake in Poland owned by Rose Aikman, who converted it into a bed-and-breakfast in 1996. Aikman is ready for a rest and is asking just shy of $1.5 million, including furniture, linen and china.

Aikman admits it takes a lot to keep up a home with 11 bedrooms, 13 bathrooms and extensive landscaping. But real estate agent Terry Hewitt was more pragmatic.

"If you're buying a million-and-a-half house, you'll hire someone to clean for you," Hewitt said.

Hewitt has shown the property to some people interested in using it as a single-family residence and others wanting to keep it as an inn.

Home & Garden Television last week featured a house in Newry that is for sale for $1.55 million on its "What You Get for the Money" show.

Matt Hiebert, associate broker and director of marketing at Mahoosuc Realty, which is listing the house, has noticed an upswing in pricey listings in the last few years.

"It seemed three or four years ago that a $300,000 house was a lot of money," he said.

The million-dollar homes take longer to sell, Hiebert said. After all, not that many can afford a monthly mortgage of $5,000 or more.

"Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut is really where we focus our advertising," he said. "It's amazing to be able to think what their primary home is like if this is their second home."

Some of the common denominators among the million-dollar listings are water access or mountain views, as well as amenities ranging from media rooms to heated garages to a "state-of-the-art bathroom."

garbribre
06-28-2006, 03:47 PM
I took more pics of the houses around there, but I won't post them until somebody expresses some interest. (If you don't already know, I like dense housing neighborhoods, even if those homes are somewhat steroidal.)

Well *I* want to see them.... Where are the interior shots of the Oakland Paramount? Where are the photos of historic Oakland? Somebody is slacking off over there... :)

For you DTDave....anything. :)

Slacking, my ass! It's the first and third Saturdays of the month for the Paramount tour. You'll be back in time for this Saturday, yes? You're the photog with the bitchin gear, so get your butt over to the theatre.

I've been kinda busy myself. I'll not repost the pics lost in the forum crash, but I'll dig up a few more....someday. :P

As for Lapu Lapu, the Spanish tall ship over in the grey seas thread is named for the guy who took over Magellan's fleet after Lapu Lapu killed Magellan. How's that for synchronicity? :)

"With one breath, with one flow
You will know
Synchronicity"

Thanks alot, DTDave!
because

"...I can't get it out of my head,
No, I can't get it out of my head.
Now my old world is gone for dead
'Cause I can't get it out of my head."

Ohhh no, nah-nah.

garbribre
06-28-2006, 03:55 PM
Market for $1 million-plus homes growing in Maine

....

Aikman admits it takes a lot to keep up a home with 11 bedrooms, 13 bathrooms and extensive landscaping. But real estate agent Terry Hewitt was more pragmatic.

"If you're buying a million-and-a-half house, you'll hire someone to clean for you," Hewitt said.

....

"It seemed three or four years ago that a $300,000 house was a lot of money," he said.

I have enough difficulty keeping up with an 1,100 sq ft space. I couldn't imagine trying to or paying to have somebody clean 5,000 sq ft (give or take).

For $300,000 in the immediate Bay Area, you'd get nothing. Decent studio apts. are rarely under $250K either.

Patrick
06-28-2006, 04:05 PM
thats insane.

The house i grew up in is a colonial style 4 bedroom on a corner lot in a suburban section of portland. When we bought it in 1992 it was under 200K but im not sure what it is now. i cant imagine it is more than 400K even with inflation and the real estate demand these days. remind me to stay in maine.

my late uncle has a house in welesley, mass that was a little smaller than mine and it was valued at 900K. convenience and proximity are everything i guess.

DowntownDave
06-28-2006, 04:41 PM
Slacking, my ass! It's the first and third Saturdays of the month for the Paramount tour. You'll be back in time for this Saturday, yes? You're the photog with the bitchin gear, so get your butt over to the theatre.


I'll stay in BOS for the 4th, but I should be around for the third Saturday of the month. Do they allow photographs inside?

garbribre
06-29-2006, 12:26 AM
^It's been years since I went on a tour, but I recall people taking pictures in the entry lobby, which is the most unique and spec-f'n-tacular part of the space. Not what you'd expect from a deco theatre--glassy, milky, cool electric colors, in contrast to the auditorium which is guilded and ornate and rich and dark and heavy. I recall no flash being part of the deal, though.

garbribre
06-29-2006, 01:04 AM
So, a few more Oakland/Piedmont manses for the masses. *snicker*

Here's what a typical street can look like.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2216/picture095large6os.jpg

Seems pretty suburban, yes? Just that it's densely lined with large homes on small-ish plots. (It's all relative.) A few of the homes are on an acre, or even much more, but many are actually on under one acre plots, fairly close to the street (with sidewalks!). Because they run length-wise along the street and are narrow--not too deep into the property--many do have sizeable back yards (and pools and tennis courts and formal gardens, etc.).

Best thing to do is go onto Windows Local Live and begin an aerial blitz tour by zooming in on Sea View Avenue or Crocker Highlands in zip code 94611 to see how really dense (and expansive) this cavalcade of mansions really is. It reminds me of Beverly Hills (as much as Brookline), but with older, better bones and not as gated.

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/4559/picture097large0mw.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2796/picture100large7bg.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3135/picture116large3eb.jpg

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6776/picture122large4dg.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5049/picture127large5cj.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3839/picture132large8ct.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8753/picture134large4un.jpg

And for all of you yawning at the subject matter in this post of pics, here's a money shot to keep you happy (and the view that some of these homes likely have from their upper floors).
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7746/picture012large5rr.jpg

Gotta throw some bone to the phallic brigade (pun intended) in every thread lest they ignore it. :lol:

Patrick
06-29-2006, 02:17 PM
wow, that first street looks spectacular, garbrire! the last one is nice too!

Patrick
07-03-2006, 12:03 AM
[quote="garbribreAnother year, some dish, I forget the name and ingredients, served in banana leaves. [/quote]

Was it suman ("soo-mahn")? had some today, and i recalled this thread, it was very good.

garbribre
07-05-2006, 03:31 PM
^ Hmmm. Sounds familiar...but, sorry, cannot recall the name. It did have coconut as an ingredient, if that helps.

Patrick
07-08-2006, 12:47 PM
yep, thats it. coconut and sweet rice make a delicious sticky substance wrapped in dark green banana leaves to keep it fresh. some people also eat it with a cocnut dipping sauce which is very sweet. i like it a lot.

DowntownDave
07-09-2006, 10:11 AM
Very cool stuff. I still have some exploring to do, I see... :)

garbribre
07-10-2006, 11:06 PM
Damn right, DTDave. All the fraidy cats that put it into your head that you should be cautious walking around Oakland with your gear is utter foolishness. You can get mugged or whatever most anywhere for that stuff. Right?

I was at the Oakland Museum this weekend. While perusing the finery in its gift shop, I found a reprint of a book from 30 years ago called Oakland: The Mediterranean City. I guess that confirms what I said on a previous page as to why I like it here so much.

Not to repost too many photos from the lost, first incarnation of the ArchitecturalBoston Forum, but let's recap a few.

Is this the French Riviera (okay, I'm stretching it) or my neighborhood?
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/4333/picture064medium2wy.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1518/picture012medium3yr.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3381/picture004medium5ko.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3552/picture004medium0dg.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9489/picture001medium6jc.jpg

The big hole in the center is to be the new Whole Foods on the site of a former natural spring bath house, which then became a Cadillac dealership. The facade of the original baths has been saved and will be incorporated into the new project.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2382/picture003medium8li.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/958/picture006medium0rw.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1949/picture011medium1pk.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5774/picture010medium1pa.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7863/picture002medium0ty.jpg

And just so it won't feel left out, Oakland's foggy, damp, cold, ugly, stepsister on one of its better days. :shock:
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/631/picture113large6cc.jpg
:lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

New photos...sometime...when I can find the time to upload them.

DowntownDave
07-13-2006, 10:28 PM
Here we see a more typical Oakland establishment....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/Oakland/BailBonds-1.jpg

Waldorf
07-13-2006, 11:12 PM
Am I starting to sense a rivalry here?

DowntownDave
07-13-2006, 11:41 PM
Nobody else gives Garbribre any grief.... :)

garbribre
07-28-2006, 05:50 PM
Because nobody's as brave (or foolhardy) as you, DTDave.

Watch your back boy. I know where you live. :)

garbribre
11-17-2008, 11:22 PM
Damn it!
I can post quick replies, but not start a new post or 'Go Advanced.'

This is what happens when you leave the flock, like a true maverick.
(But do true mavericks ever return to the flock? Aaahhhhh. That's the question, sprouts.)

You wankers are all still at it, eh? Heheheh

Let's see.... What's new?

Guess I've got to read a lot to find out.

Boston's still standing, I see.
At least on one good leg with a somewhat sturdy, elaborately carved cane.

Oakland... barely.
What a bunch of clowns.
Not the funny kind.

Do I dare brave cold, snowy winters again?

Come back east and kick some irrational NIMBY ass?
(Have had my fill here, tell you what.)

Nope. Not likely. Plus, I still like my privacy.

But, hey, I'll jawjack with ya'll again.

kennedy
11-18-2008, 09:46 AM
Are you high?

garbribre
11-18-2008, 09:20 PM
Jealous?

You must be 'new'.
Just reaching out to my old 'friends,' with whom I have a history here, and in my own way, after being off the board for ... two and a half years--wow.

If you think I write like I'm high, well, so be it. :)

Marblehead and St. Louis, eh?
That's an interesting, contrasting combination.
I often compare Oakland to St. Louis and to Detroit, for those people who need a cliched comparison point, primarily when I'm disparaging my current hometown.

I haven't been to St. Louis in a while--not since TWA went belly up. Been a long time, then.

Tell us, what is St. Louis doing to improve its urban self?
It's a city much like Boston in that it has older bones, was a vibrant, bustling metropolis, about the same size as Boston. Then, it declined, and never quite rebounded.


Here's Oakland's Mistake by the Lake, courtesy of the Jerry Brown era. It recently opened after a three year(!) construction timetable. This bunker isn't brutalism revisited, by any means. It's just substituted concrete in place of precast. (You can see a Seaport/Fallon-like precast rising a block behind the church, though.) This has become one horrifying view from Children's Fairyland across the lake's lagoon from the church. There should have been so much more here for the city and the community. Plus, this is a Calatrava design (original architect) watered down by somebody at SOM, I think.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/274/img40191024x768pr2.jpg

I have more info. However, it's my first day back on the board. Plus, I'm pooped. And I got to get on a plane again tomorrow at midnight. Stupid airlines--hardly any reasonably scheduled non-stops coast to coast anymore.

Mike
11-18-2008, 09:23 PM
Good to have you back, garbribre. We've been wondering where you were since the beginning of last year (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=1493).

Ron Newman
11-18-2008, 09:59 PM
What is the curved glass building? I think that's sort of cool, actually.

garbribre
11-18-2008, 10:14 PM
Cathedral of Christ the Light. Google it for all the info you'll ever want to know.

New home for the 'Catholic' Church.
It's all so shifty, actually.

Too tired to argue its (de)merits right now.

The interior is spectacular, I will say that.

The bunker that surrounds it--vile. I cut off the worst part to the left.

I have my own nickname for the main cathedral hall. However, I notice females are actively posting (way to go Archboston--welcome to the 21st century ... 20th, actually. Catch up, dudes.), so I won't type it here.

garbribre
11-30-2008, 11:49 PM
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8871/img30501024x768yv7.jpg

Only took this because I was trying to get the four construction cranes in the shot.

kennedy
12-01-2008, 09:43 AM
Jealous?

You must be 'new'.
Just reaching out to my old 'friends,' with whom I have a history here, and in my own way, after being off the board for ... two and a half years--wow.

If you think I write like I'm high, well, so be it. :)

Marblehead and St. Louis, eh?
That's an interesting, contrasting combination.
I often compare Oakland to St. Louis and to Detroit, for those people who need a cliched comparison point, primarily when I'm disparaging my current hometown.

I haven't been to St. Louis in a while--not since TWA went belly up. Been a long time, then.

Tell us, what is St. Louis doing to improve its urban self?
It's a city much like Boston in that it has older bones, was a vibrant, bustling metropolis, about the same size as Boston. Then, it declined, and never quite rebounded.


Vibrant, bustling metropolis my arse. St. Louis has the worst urban area I've ever seen-how dare you compare it to Boston. This place has the worst problem with suburban sprawl I've ever seen. STL does jack to help themselves, they just continue building sub-divisions further and further out. They think the further from the city they are, the richer they are...they live in such a disillusioned world. But hey, it is the meth-lab capitol of the world. Anyhow, I used to live in Marblehead, and then moved to St. Louis a few months ago-but I'll still come back to Marblehead in the summer. And yes, I'm pretty new-I joined after the crash but before we switched to vBulletin.

bdurden
12-01-2008, 05:46 PM
^Kennedy, you misread the posting.

kennedy
12-01-2008, 06:57 PM
In which way? Would it have helped if I had written my post in blah ?

garbribre
12-02-2008, 11:32 AM
^Kennedy, you misread the posting.

As people here often do.

Aside (not directed at anyone specifically, yet, including kennedy): Many on this board try to be so amusing that, ultimately, it results in a failure to communicate much of anything clearly as they trip over their self-perceived cleverness.

(I am in a pissy mood today. Should refrain from posting... nah!)

Sounds like St. Louis of the present-day remains a disaster, though I haven't personally experienced it in a decade. It wasn't always that way.

Boston could have been a disaster as well. We all should have learned by now that any location isn't immune. Despite the grumbling here--gritty or not, suburbanized or not, tall buildings or not, strong leadership or not--be glad that many of you are living near or in a region that didn't collapse into a quagmire during our lifetimes.

kennedy
12-02-2008, 04:01 PM
Right...that's the message I got and was responding to. Whatever...anyhow, yes, be grateful you live in Boston, or NYC, or SF, or anywhere other than STL for that matter, because unless you're in Detriot, I guarantee you're in an architecturally/urban-ally nicer place.

garbribre
12-10-2008, 06:49 PM
What is the curved glass building? I think that's sort of cool, actually.

Cathedral of Christ the Light, the new home for the Catholic Diocese. The interior is spectacular, I will say that.


Let's start out with a few pics that may totally disorient you. (heheh)

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2285/img64771024x768ge3.jpg


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6022/img64831024x768tc3.jpg


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9478/img64811024x768pi6.jpg

Have fun figuring out which end is up. (I didn't crop one pic expertly, so you can figure it out without much eye strain.) I will post more tomorrow.

garbribre
12-16-2008, 09:26 PM
What?! Where's the curiosity? Did I miss a post elsewhere about this and everyone is familiar with it (or tired of it) already?!

Awriiiight.
Here are a few more... before I publicly disparage it.

Jebus luvs U
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8559/img64761024x768pe6.jpg

My fave view from behind the altar in the choir through the lattice work
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/7649/img64781024x768is3.jpg


http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/4095/img64791024x768xk9.jpg

kennedy
12-16-2008, 09:28 PM
It is very churchlike and wannabe postmoderny.

garbribre
12-18-2008, 08:58 PM
Interior, yes, I could see that influence. Though I think it pays homage to an older generation of venerated architects, including some ancient cultures. Exterior, not sure how I would categorize it.

During a formal tour, the word 'sensual' was used a few times. People giggled, nervously.:)

A final array of pics on this subject for my one hand clapping following.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/7623/img64801024x768kh4.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/5862/img64821024x768mi5.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/4480/img64841024x768jz1.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/6643/img64891024x768sw9.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/6954/img64901024x768vh7.jpg

One thing I love about the main hall structure is the play of light (and shadows), which this picture doesn't fully exploit. I would have to wait around like a real photographer to capture some of the effects, and I am just a point-and-shoot kinda guy. I think there are some amazing pics on various blogs and sites. If you are interested, google the name of the church. Also, SOM has a good construction timeline of photos showing the construction process and the engineering challenges.
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/2166/img64921024x768jz1.jpg

This is what the Jerry Brown administration thought was the most cutting edge idea for an urban project in Oakland that would help put it back on the world map.

Wait. Did I miss something? Was Oakland ever on the world map?

Okay, he did take claim for the 10K housing initiative, but that was suggested by others before he ran for office and others initiated it elsewhere before he ever did.

Now he's our State Attorney General. Oh, crap!

Guess I've derailed my own thread (not that I am ever on track). Maybe I should start a purely Oakland one elsewhere. Seems the one I had before is long gone from the board crash.

TheBostonBoy
12-20-2008, 11:10 PM
Wow that is cool. Crazy stuff

garbribre
12-26-2008, 08:13 PM
Keep encouraging me; I'll keep posting the photos I have.;)

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7046/img66041024x768bn5.jpg

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5869/img66061024x768bo5.jpg

(Clearly, these have been messed with. The color is still not right.)

As much as I object(ed) to this building--what it stands for, where it is sited, actually, the overall site plan, the materials, especially where it relates to the street--the sanctuary makes you stop and stare at it. They have achieved the intended 'wow! what's that?' factor.

TheBostonBoy
12-26-2008, 11:54 PM
Haha jeezzzzzzzz
how many more pictures do you have good sir?
they never really get old, this building is too interesting

Ron Newman
12-27-2008, 07:16 AM
All very cool but should be moved to their own thread.

garbribre
12-29-2008, 10:27 PM
Haha jeezzzzzzzz
how many more pictures do you have good sir?
they never really get old, this building is too interesting

Shouldn't you be asking, 'Please, sir. Can I have some more.'
(Misquoted, I know. Dis daddy dun kno no bettah.)

Look what I found while cleaning up/organizing my pic files.

From March 2007
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6092/img30331024x768us4.jpg

(Again, blurry, as is often the case with my pics, when taken while on a moving bike.)

All very cool but should be moved to their own thread.
Ron Ron Ron Ron Ron... What are we gonna do with you?;)

It's my own thread, so it's guaranteed that I'll derail it. No matter.

garbribre
01-10-2009, 01:21 AM
I found a few more angles of the Cathedral under construction.
(Gotta organize my hard drive/pic files someday.)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3836/img30221024x768qn5.jpg


http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/600/img30521024x768sk3.jpg

And a few extra crane pics thrown in for 02124 and his disciples. ;)

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4125/img30311024x768cv2.jpg


http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2411/img30541024x768bb2.jpg

tmac9wr
01-12-2009, 09:48 AM
That church is truly incredible.

Ron Newman
01-22-2009, 05:17 PM
So, garbribre, what is it that you do not like about that church? (You promised us some 'negative' comments earlier in the thread.)

kennedy
01-22-2009, 06:16 PM
It's a church in the middle of what the city wanted to be an business zone (as I understand it)? It isn't a spectacularly urban building...

Beton Brut
01-22-2009, 06:27 PM
For those interested, there's a feature on the Cathedral in this month's Architectural Record.

garbribre
01-25-2009, 01:37 AM
It's a church in the middle of what the city wanted to be an business zone (as I understand it)? It isn't a spectacularly urban building...

Primarily my objections. I've already stated a few more previously. Plus I have given it a derrogatory name, based on its design, for which I created a diagrammatical overlay explaining how somebody at SOM is laughing (unintentionally??) at the diocese. It's offensive and I will make more enemies if I post it.

Both sites chosen for the church were on the lake. Both should have been used for more lively, all-inclusive public use. One remains a parking lot and it seems that it will for decades to come if the adjacent buildings are reused as the new home for the Oakland Public Library.

This one had been a parking lot since the late 60s! Sadly, an eight lane surface artery runs between it and the lake, so the connection was already tenuous. That could have been rectified. However, my vision was too complicated. Vision often is.

Ron, I am trying not to be too negative anymore. Pessimistically, I'm used up! :o

ArchRec article is linked below, with better pics than I could ever take, including some during the construction phase:

http://archrecord.construction.com/projects/portfolio/archives/0901cathedral-1.asp

garbribre
01-30-2009, 11:51 PM
Hey, mods--Everything's groovy, but I think Ron was right (as usual). Maybe it's time to break off the Cathedral chatter into its own thread, especially as I am adding more pics below. Thanks.

However, look what I am going to do. Kinda bring this back around to near where it started... sorta. (Just because somebody made a crack elsewhere about our Nazi, I mean, Austrian governor. Heh)

California's "train wreck" a golden opportunity?

By Dan Whitcomb ? Mon Jan 26, 1:35 am ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) ? With California facing a $42 billion deficit in the current economic downturn, a glum Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has warned that the Golden State is on the brink of insolvency.
More people have left California than any other U.S. state over the past year, some disenchanted with snarled traffic, scarce jobs and some of the highest taxes in the nation. Add the prospect of still higher taxes and fewer public services, and normally sunny Californians have little to celebrate.
Still, experts say the most populous U.S. state and the world's eighth-largest economy is well placed to rise again and that this crisis could spur major changes in the economy that will pay dividends in the long term.
Abundant natural resources, big ports, access to the Pacific Rim, a large, relatively young work force, entrepreneurial draw and tech-oriented industries augur well for the future, economists and historians say.
"The prophets of doom and gloom are just not looking at the reality of California," said Jerry Nickelsburg, senior economist at the UCLA Anderson Forecast.
"The government has created kind of a mess and that's a problem to be solved, but the negatives are actually fairly small. I think you can expect a lot of good out of California," he said.
The typically upbeat Schwarzenegger made international headlines this month when, instead of delivering his usual cheery "state of the state" speech, he issued a short, bleak message about California's roughly $1.5 trillion economy.

"A ROCK UPON OUR CHEST"
"California is in a state of emergency," said the former actor and bodybuilder, whose second term ends next year. "Addressing this emergency is the first and greatest thing we must do for the people. The $42 billion deficit is a rock upon our chest and we cannot breathe until we get it off."
Controller John Chiang then told Californians he would delay sending out $3.7 billion in tax refunds and other payments because the state was running out of money.
The dismal state of the state would have been hard to imagine in California's post-World War Two golden years, when incomes were rising, land was plentiful, homes were affordable and wide-open freeways stretched in all directions.
The good times came to a screeching halt with the 1973 OPEC recession, said Dowell Myers, a professor of urban planning and demography at the University of Southern California, and in some ways they have never really returned.
At the heart of California's problems, economists say, is the government's heavy reliance on personal income taxes, which produces wild swings in revenue as its coffers overflow in good years and dry up in leaner times.
California is a pioneer state famous for its entrepreneurial spirit. But an entrepreneur who might make $2 million in boom times could go bust in a recession.
A big reason for the state's reliance on income taxes is Proposition 13, a voter-approved change to the state Constitution that limits property tax increases and requires any plan to boost taxes to receive the approval of at least two-thirds of the legislature.
The 1978 measure was credited with sparking anti-tax sentiment in other states and assisting Ronald Reagan's election as U.S. president two years later.
Legislators have responded by burdening state residents with some of the highest income and sales taxes in the country.

Economists say the state has long needed to fix that revenue roller-coaster ride and are hopeful that this crisis will force leaders to face the music.
They also place little long-term significance on the number of people moving out, saying it is misleading to compare absolute numbers with other states when California's population is so much larger.

'LONG OVERDUE REASSESSMENT'
Moreover, California's population is actually still growing thanks to immigration and births, and the state's relatively young work force may give it an edge as baby boomers retire.
California's population could hit 60 million by 2050, according to some projections, six times 1950's 10.5 million people and 60 percent more than the current 38 million.
Hard-hit by the mortgage crisis and foreclosures, home prices dropped 35 percent in 2008 in Southern California -- making home ownership realistic for young families in California for the first time in nearly a decade.
The unemployment news has been grim, with the state's jobless rate in December rising to a 14-year high of 9.3 percent, above the national average of 7.2 percent.
The rate is approaching the one posted during the recession in the early 1990s, when California's economy suffered from gutted aerospace payrolls and unemployment rose to nearly 10 percent.
But the state remains a leader in green energy, biotechnology, aerospace and other industries that are expected to fare well in the world economy and create new job markets.
"What people may think is that you can't really solve the problems in California until you totally wreck the train," Myers said. "You have to shake them up, wake them up. The outlook is very hopeful right now because this crisis is forcing a long-overdue reassessment."
Jessica Gould, a 25-year-old graduate student at USC who moved from Atlanta and fell in love with the mild climate, natural beauty, health-conscious lifestyle and anything-goes culture, is optimistic. "I am hoping we make some changes," Gould said. "(The budget mess) does concern me, to be honest. But you are going to face problems anywhere and there are so many other things I get from living here, I guess it's a small price to pay."
(Editing by Mary Milliken and Xavier Briand)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090126/us_nm/us_california_crisis

_________________

The numbers and estimates for population growth always make me laugh, both because they seem flagrantly, exponentially extreme and optimistic.

I read somewhere else that the state lost 145,000--residents I assume, as opposed to households--over a one year period. They compared it to the entire city of Syracuse disappearing. Using Syracuse as an example in a nationally published article? Bet that had people running for the atlases. :D

Also, good time for some real estate speculation on foreclosed properties. It's a feeding frenzy out here. Got cash? It's yours. List prices are of little consequence. Time for some of you to get a piece of the California Dream, which is different from the American Dream. Trust me; it is.

garbribre
01-31-2009, 12:13 AM
After a very early morning, sunrise bike ride. Nice light.


http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5975/img68331024x768yx0.jpg


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1927/img68361024x768zu6.jpg


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6008/img68431024x768nf1.jpg


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5136/img68371024x768kl2.jpg


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8890/img68451024x768ud7.jpg


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/410/img68481024x768zo6.jpg


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3025/img68521024x768sc6.jpg

Next time, I'll go out for one last attempt at evening/night shots. Then I feel it is time to close the book on COCTL. (Heh heh heh)

kennedy
01-31-2009, 09:29 AM
Man, everytime I see this I like it a little tiny bit more...which is odd, because at first I really didn't like it.

JohnAKeith
01-31-2009, 11:06 AM
Hi. I don't understand what this thread is about. Also, where are those latest photos from?

garbribre
02-02-2009, 12:44 AM
Man, everytime I see this I like it a little tiny bit more...which is odd, because at first I really didn't like it.

I wanted to reel in at least one person before I dashed their perspective on this. It may end up being you, kennedy. I want you to know, beforehand, that I do have a conscience and hate dashing the enthusiasms of young impressionables. ;)

When I first saw this basic form, I said, aloud, to everyone listening, 'This is like Hartford's Phoenix Mutual Life Plaza and Building (or whatever it is called now) except on the cathedral sanctuary, its ends are notched.' (Icy staredown ensued. Thought they were being soooo innovative.)

The interior in combination with the floating skin is what makes this building special, creating a depth of shadows and light to which most of us are unaccustomed.

I don't condemn SOM for revisiting Hartford's Phoenix Building. Both that office building and this sanctuary are striking structures, albeit each on vast wastelands of their plazas, which emphasizes the intrigue of the most striking parts of each complex--enshrouded, yet occupiable, enclosed space as isolated sculptures on their ceee-ment ponds. Oh, ummmm, parks, not ponds. My mistake.


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2664/img68421024x768gf5.jpg


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2497/img68411024x768sj6.jpg


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1815/img68341024x768sc5.jpg


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7340/img68351024x768qn1.jpg


As I made my way around the vast expanse of concrete satellite structures, I was asked, irrationally, not to do certain things while I tried to take pictures, like blocking exit doors and stepping on the grass. Then the security force, of which there were too many to count, proceeded to follow me around, tag team-style, and not too subtly. I could hear the directives coming through their walkie talkies about how they were to deal with me in order to discourage me from the property. Must've thought I was hearing impared or something. :cool: Gotta use that tactic more often in order to get away with stuff.

Hi. I don't understand what this thread is about.

Like real life--non-linear, ill-conceived, and gloriously messy.

garbribre
02-13-2009, 01:43 AM
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7616/img69371024x768za5.jpg

Looked much better very, very tiny on my camera's screen. Trying to be a bit too artsy for my own good. Was a wee tipsy after catching the last BART train back from SFO to Oakland one chilly night. No matter. Jebus still wuvs me.

kennedy
02-14-2009, 11:41 AM
Holy shit there's a giant ant in the church! What the hell, it's waving at me (you)...

tobyjug
02-15-2009, 11:31 PM
Holy shit there's a giant ant in the church! What the hell, it's waving at me (you)...

London calling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGHlUOUG6rE

garbribre
02-17-2009, 11:16 PM
^ Ha!
Relevant and fitting end--construction crane and all.

Brit horror films always seem less cheesy compared to their American counterparts from the same era. Must be the accents (and acting abilities).


Holy shit there's a giant ant in the church! What the hell, it's waving at me (you)...

Nope. It's King Tut.
However, this observation may have more to do with my own, usually blurry vision, and that's not because I have bad eyesight.

garbribre
02-25-2009, 08:53 PM
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5894/img73251024x768.jpg

The Church of the Gargantuan Vag was looking quite icy-blue today.

czsz
02-25-2009, 11:41 PM
Base kills it.

garbribre
03-02-2009, 10:37 PM
^ Yup. Spent all the money on the main cathedral and did the rest like a bunker. However, the area below the main cathedral is suitably built out of concrete for its purpose--a crypt/mausoleum. The rest of it--inexcusable. The public areas have all the warmth and vitality of ... the catacombs. :p

The mausoleum level, below the main cathedral:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2183/img64851024x768.jpg
Processional corridor


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8408/img64871024x768.jpg
Ooops. Shaky. Niches (foreground) and crypts (back wall)


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/85/img64881024x768.jpg
A little whimsical children's art project outside in the vestibule of the mausoleum.


It was difficult to get decent angles to take pictures inside the public spaces in that cement base, and because I was being watched and followed. I guess scruffy guys with bicycle helmets don't look submissive enough to be one of the believers.

As for what I did see, nothing looked worthy of pictures--concrete slabs, some covered with marble or marble-like treatments with quotations etched into them, interrupted by large, plate glass windows. Very dull. Even the sunken outdoor courtyard was less a contemplative place and more like a place for a penitent's one hour of daylight/air, like in a prison.

The other public spaces--lecture halls, classrooms, a coffee shop, and a gift shop--were all the same with cement exteriors, large plate glass windows, and minimalist furnishings and fixtures lacking in design noteworthiness. Again, everything interesting is in the cathedral.