archBOSTON ARCHIVE

DowntownDave · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 374

I took so many photos I think was intercontinent!!

Unusual view of the South Station Eagle from this point:

I didn't realize Independence Wharf used to be Girffin's wharf:

The Fed update:

DarkFenX · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111

Holy moly. My new favorite high-rise (not skyscraper). It so photogenic that it looks like a rendering than a real thing! Awesome pictures. Poolio, can you put these on emporis.com?

budman3 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 58

Imagine it with Russia Wharf. I really thought those first ones where computer generated it looks so surreal and fresh, i don't know. I really like it though.

And I wish there was some more of a Tea Party commemoration. I mean there is so much bank in that, its such a destination of world-wide significance.

justin · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418

The renderings made me worry about the middle section of the Intercontinental. Now I see it was for good reason: just doesn't work. It's too wide, the angular articulation in the middle just doesn't mesh with the curves of the side wings (which I like), and it sits at an odd angle. Still, overall, the building is a plus.

justin

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Still can't warm to this building. It's frantically over-styled to no avail, like a Pontiac Aztek: a mish-mash of undigested stylistic impulses all at cross-purposes.

The base is too low and horizontal; it should be as high as its neighbor to the left. That would necessitate proportionately higher "towers" so you could see them over the base. The whole building would improve if a vertical scale factor of say 2.0 were put on it.

The derivative glass curves come from New York's Time Warner Center, where Elkus Manfredi were the mall architects. At TWC, both curves were concave to follow Columbus Circle; here there's no guiding circle, so one of the curves turned convex (looks like a wave, get it?; it's next to the water).

And the color's wrong.

To me this building is chaotic visual static. It's different alright, but I don't think it's beautiful at all. In fact it makes me wish for a little of that timid contextualism.

Incompetent.

.

BostonFaker · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 703

I swear,

justin and ablarc don't like anything!

TheBostonian · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 617

I like it. It doesn't look like anything else around it. And for this one, it is better than ventilation stacks.

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

I think it's one of my favorite buildings in Boston. Definately in the top 5.

ItsConanOBrien · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 460

It's a good lookin' building. Thanks for the updates!

DarkFenX · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111

Merper · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 227

... i don't love it, though I guess its better than naked ventilation stacks, but thats not saying much is it?

the bottom has always looked like a walmart to me. much too wide, much too sqarish, much too plain... it really isn't like anything else on the waterfront, and in this case that is faint praise. Like Ablarc states, the only contextualism comes from the 'undulations' on the facade meant to say 'water'.

I'd say a pontiac aztec is an excellent analogy

Mike · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 402

I love this building. Thanks for all the updates, DTDave.

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Tinsel and glitter. Wait till the new wears off.

Brian · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 51

What exactly about an all glass building is tinsel and glitter, and how is that going to wear off?

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Vanshnookenraggen · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 364

I like it but those pictures really give the implication that the Fort Point Channel is just that, a channel. They should really turn it into a mini Charles River Basin with parks that slope into the water and trees, the whole deal. Only then will the area really take off.

Ive seen the plans for the park they want to build around it and lets me say, BORING. Don't say there isn't enough space to fill in around the sides because there is.

Bowwest · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 616

Do you mean just trees lining the water? I wouldn't like to see parks in this area at all. I think it should be as dense as possible.

Vanshnookenraggen · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 364

No, cause thats the current plan. I mean filling in the bank with fill and building a park, just like the Esplanade only smaller.

Brian · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 51

From these pictures the shine and sparkle appears to be light reflecting off the glass, nothing more.

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Merper · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 227

all i could think about while reading this article is the proposed 'boat'-building by Safdie.

What a piece of crap that'll be.

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

denatlanta · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 47

And how about that "wave" building jutting out into Sydney Harbor; the Sydney Opera House. I mean, is it supposed to remind us of sailboats or waves or seagull wings? What in the world was Joern Utzon thinking when he designed it?

Bowwest · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 616

I think this is pretty cool.

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Certainly a cool drawing.

Merper · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 227

... a drawing that bearly shows the actual building... certainly the views will be great from the building, but the building itself has nothing to do with that.

DarkFenX · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111

I think it needs a few skyscrapers along the Greenway.

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

TheBostonian · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 617

I want this 5k sq ft condo at 500 Atlantic:

http://www.residences-intercontinental.com/residences/pdfs/21K.pdf

edit: or this one with 2 floors plus a roof terrace. But how is the air up there with the tunnel exhaust?

http://www.residences-intercontinental.com/residences/pdfs/21G.pdf

Bowwest · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 616

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

Vanshnookenraggen · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 364

Yeah, I mean where are all my butlers and maids supposed to sleep?

garbribre · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459

5K sq. ft.! Obscene! Houses that big are qualified McMansions.

And that 3.5K sq. ft. one has some serious waste of space--all those 'gallery' hallways--dramatic but ultimately hollow. This reinforces that this has bad exterior massing and design choices which translates to the interior.

Still thoroughly dislike this building for many of my original reasons (in another thread) and the reasons re-articulated by others on the previous pages. The glass curtain wall is more varied (being able to see the articulation of each individual floor rather than a sheer glass curtain wall), so in this respect, it looks better than the renderings.

Still, what a wasted opportunity to create something really unique and unselfconsciously dramatic for the first major new project that straddles both the Greenway and Harbor/Channel. This is likely a bellwether of future development along the waterfront, Greenway, and Ft. Pt. Channel. Well, at least the spaces at ground level are public. So, one plus. A butt-ugly ground facade, though.

I support the notion that no matter what else is designed and built near here, this will lose its luster and stand out, in a bad way, in the future. Elkus/Manfredi should now be banned from designing in Boston. Laughing

justin · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418

BOSDevelopment · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 293

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

they want a curved sidewalk??? OH NO, anything but that! Do these people have any respect for property rights?

Clash over sidewalk stalls hotel
InterContinental plan pits developer, pedestrian boosters

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | November 25, 2005

State environmental officials for the fourth time have delayed making a decision on the shape of a sidewalk at the new InterContinental Boston hotel that for months has been the source of disagreement between the developer and a group that wants to make the city more pedestrian-friendly.

Developers want to construct a two-lane vehicular pullout area for pickups and drop-offs in front of the 424-room hotel and residential complex on Atlantic Avenue, so that traffic on the three northbound lanes of the street doesn't snarl.

WalkBoston, a nonprofit advocacy group, objects to the plan. The organization, which played a major role in drawing up guidelines for streets and walkways along the new Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway, wants a one-lane pullout. That would make room for a wider -- and straight -- sidewalk in front of the building.

The approved plan stipulates a wide sidewalk that angles toward the front doors of the hotel and behind structural columns, away from where vehicles would stop. To avoid vehicles, pedestrians would have to follow a sidewalk bending away from Atlantic Avenue.

The $315 million hotel and residences are scheduled to open in about 10 months.

WalkBoston officials say they were shocked when they belatedly found out the plan for the InterContinental Boston hotel and Residences at the InterContinental did not include the wide, straight sidewalk. That, they say, was the intention of planners who in the mid-1990s held extensive public meetings and set guidelines for the project.

''It's outrageous that the city gave a permit in violation of those guidelines," said Liz Levin, president of WalkBoston.

Extell Development Co. of New York, the developer, went through an eight-year process, won its state environmental and multiple city permits, and was proceeding with its approved plan for a two-lane drop-off area when WalkBoston objected, early this year.

''Could we say 'pound sand'? Of course we could," said Brian Fallon, managing director of Extell. ''But we are negotiating in good faith."

Brief talks between the parties in the spring failed, and WalkBoston took an unconventional step -- it filed a ''notice of project change" under the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act. Such notices are usually filed by the developer.

This is only the second time MEPA officials have accepted an application for a notice of project change from someone other than the entity that received permits to build.

Several compromises have been considered over the past couple of months, with Boston Redevelopment Authority and Rose Kennedy Greenway Conservancy officials mediating, but none has been acceptable to both sides.

As recently as Tuesday, the BRA presented a new plan to the Extell team, but it was unsatisfactory to the company and is still being tweaked. Extell has offered a version that shows a substantial sidewalk extending beyond the hotel's structural columns -- allowing the sidewalk to be straight -- but the company still wants a two-lane pullout for cars off Atlantic Avenue.

City transportation officials declared early in the process that the parking lane along Atlantic Avenue should also be available for use as a third lane of through traffic at busy times of the day. WalkBoston has suggested the lane could be used as a drop-off and pick-up lane.

That arrangement would allow for a wide, straight sidewalk exclusively for pedestrians in front of the hotel, but it would mean only one pullout lane off the street.

WalkBoston filed its notice with MEPA Sept. 24. Comments on the dispute are due Dec. 9, and about 100 have already been submitted. If no compromise is reached, Secretary of Environmental Affairs Stephen R. Pritchard can allow the developer to go ahead with the approved plan or can require more study.

If further review is ordered, the city would decide whether Extell's previously approved design needs to be changed. Such a decision could lead to a long legal challenge.

''We hope to come to an acceptable agreement," said Joe O'Keefe, a spokesman for the secretary of environmental affairs. He said that proving the developer has made a change so significant it requires reopening the approval process is not easy for WalkBoston.

''This is a high hurdle for them," O'Keefe said.

Link

BlinkieOB · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 103

I read the article they wrote on this in the Herald yesterday and could not really visualize much of what they were talking about. I can visualize it a lot better now, after reading this, but I still wish they published some sort of diagrams of what both sides want. It is still kind of hard to picture.

Coyote137 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 33

Regardless of this sidewalk issue, the fact that it took eight years for the thing to be approved, when it isn't all that tall or close to a neighborhood, is absolutely unacceptable.

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

DowntownDave · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 374

I suppose its not so easy to tell from those photos, since I tried to frame out the ugly construction zone, but the building set set back quite a ways from the current surface street location. There is plenty of room there to support a variety of drop off / sidewalk configurations:

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

BEYOND THE BIG DIG | GLOBE EDITORIAL
A Greenway obstacle

November 26, 2005

NOW THAT the public has spent $14.6 billion on the Big Dig to reconnect Boston with its harbor and improve traffic, citizens have a right to expect that the green centerpiece of the project will be inviting to pedestrians. If it isn't, the Rose Kennedy Greenway could become this generation's City Hall Plaza: grand in concept but underutilized in practice. The new public-private Greenway Conservancy has to be given more clout to ensure that permitting authorities with conflicting agendas, from the artery to the city to the MBTA to the state, maintain the greenway's original vision of walker-friendliness.

That vision is at risk with the current plan for the first big private development on the greenway, the InterContinental Hotel and condos at 500 Atlantic Ave. According to the plan, pedestrians would detour in a loop around two valet parking lanes of idling cars and under the building's portico.

It doesn't have to be this way, and wouldn't be if the project adhered both to the greenway's original design for uninterrupted sidewalks and the developer's final environmental impact submission. Both call for a straight, broad sidewalk in front of the building, with cars to be unloaded at the curb, a practice that has worked for decades at the Ritz Carlton Hotel on Arlington Street.

But in a 2001 letter, Boston Transportation Department officials insisted that cars dropping off or picking up passengers at the hotel do so off the street, creating the need for valet lanes on what would otherwise be the sidewalk, but they did not specify the current sidewalk loop plan. The city plans to ban rush-hour curb parking on that stretch. But the notion that traffic would move briskly in that lane at any time is unrealistic given the number of curb cuts there.

WalkBoston, a pedestrian advocacy organization, has suggested a compromise: The hotel would be granted a single-lane, off-street drop-off area next to the curb lane, which would allow continuous pedestrian movement. Under this proposal, the city would drop its plan to ban rush-hour parking in the Atlantic Avenue curb lane, permitting car dropoffs and pickups there, too.

The developer, the city, and the Greenway Conservancy are looking at ways to defuse the controversy. Their ideas, plus WalkBoston's proposal, should be on the table. It is a shame that more active coordination did not occur sooner. As it stands, every effort should be made -- by narrowing pullout lanes, eliminating curbs that cross the sidewalk, and other means -- to provide a straight pedestrian stroll. Whatever emerges from the negotiations, the dispute highlights the need for one agency -- the conservancy -- with authority to make sure that the greenway doesn't become more Houston than Boston.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2005/11/26/a_greenway_obstacle/

statler · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Deal may end standoff over sidewalk at hotel
Plan calls for more pedestrian-friendly route along street

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | December 2, 2005

A compromise sidewalk design brokered yesterday by the Boston Redevelopment Authority and the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway Conservancy may end a standoff between developers of the InterContinental Boston hotel on Atlantic Avenue and the pro-pedestrian group WalkBoston.

Extell Development Co. of New York, which is building the $315 million mirrored-glass complex, and WalkBoston have been at odds for months over the shape of the sidewalk and configuration of a vehicle drop-off area in front of the building, which has a prominent site along the new Rose Kennedy Greenway.

The new proposal would give Extell the two drop-off lanes it wants, along with a straight sidewalk, 6 feet, 8 inches wide, in front of the hotel.

The secretary of the Executive Office of Environmental Affairs would have to approve any compromise. ''The decision in this case will set the tone for future review for projects along the Greenway," said spokesman Joe O'Keefe.

''Neither party is completely satisfied," said BRA director Mark Maloney. ''Yet we have resolved this within inches of both parties' needs."

Extell's original plan, approved in 2003 by state and city officials, featured a sidewalk on the east side of Atlantic Avenue that curved toward the hotel's recessed front doors and back out. The design provided room for two pickup and drop-off lanes away from street traffic. Atlantic Avenue is planned as a three-lane, northbound surface street.

But WalkBoston, which says a straight sidewalk is easier for pedestrians to use, cried foul. The group said it became aware only earlier this year that the sidewalk would curve.

When an effort to negotiate with the developer failed, WalkBoston took the unusual step of filing a ''notice of project change" under the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act.

Responding to that move, usually reserved for major changes contemplated by developers, state environmental officials opened a period for public comment on the conflict. Environmental officials could require further study, even though the developer has obtained the needed permits and construction is underway. But they have said an agreement between the two sides is preferable.

To avoid such disputes in the future, Maloney said, new guidelines are being created for the city's approval of projects along the Greenway. ''That's an additional review we think the Greenway deserves," he said.

The Rose Kennedy Greenway Conservancy board, which eventually will fund and manage the corridor of parks, assumed a significant role in working out the sidewalk compromise.

A spokeswoman for the developer yesterday declined to comment.

WalkBoston, a nonprofit group that promotes a walkable city, said it was still studying the plan and would comment to the BRA today.

''I think we're moving in the right direction," said Wendy Landman, the group's executive director. ''We appreciate the level of attention the city and state are paying to this, and that the developer has come to the table and is talking about compromise."

Construction at the 424-room InterContinental Boston hotel and Residences at the InterContinental was not slowed by the dispute. The building, which wraps around Big Dig tunnel-ventilation towers, is not scheduled to open for about 10 months.

A plan that WalkBoston supported would have made the curb lane on Atlantic Avenue one of the two drop-off lanes. City transportation officials have said they want that lane to be designated for parking. As in other parts of the city, at peak traffic times the lane may be used for through traffic. Using the lane as a drop-off zone would have effectively made that impossible.

BRA planners carved out the compromise by reducing the width of the two drop-off lanes by almost two feet, to 16 feet, 4 inches. A 5 1/2-foot-wide raised median along the curb line, including planters with trees, was eliminated. It would be replaced by a narrow ''rumble strip" of cobblestones and two light poles.

WalkBoston took part in lengthy public discussions a decade ago about the width and shape of streets and sidewalks along what is now called the Rose Kennedy Greenway. The group's leaders said the spirit of a walkable corridor was violated by the InterContinental plan, as approved by the city.

Extell executives consistently said they could legally build without a straight sidewalk. But they agreed to work on a compromise plan.

Thomas C. Palmer Jr. can be reached at tpalmer@globe.com.
Link

DarkFenX · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111

I am amazed at how Bostonian people would fight over something so silly.

aws129 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 10

it's not silly

The sidewalks along the Greenway, especially where buildings meet the public realm, will significantly impact how the area feels and functions for years to come. By having the public sidewalk curve in from the street, the developers would have forced pedestrians to make an unnecessary detour -- just to reduce the distance from limo to building entrance from twenty measly steps to ten! The developer's initial design would make pedestrians second-class citizens to the cabs.
The compromise design doesn't sound radically different, but I think, by emphasizing the public space (sidewalk) over private (driveway), it's an improvement.

PaulC · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 172

Sometimes I'm amazed how developers will fight over something so silly. And the delay can cost them big time. On Newbury St Charlie Sarkis caved after leaving his building empty for a year.

garbribre · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459

Ah, yes, catering to the vehicles and not the pedestrians--seemingly small, but another in a multitude of ways that short-sightedness of any component along the Greenway (then magnified by many more such instances) could then make the whole Greenway suck.