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archBOSTON ARCHIVE March 10, 2005 - May 20, 2006
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Bowwest
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 616
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:21 am Post subject: |
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I think its looking better too.
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ckb
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 126
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not even totally offended by the BHR in some of these shots! Of course, that last one is carefully constructed to avoid almost all the parking lots. I'm still reserving my optimism until those lots close and someone -- anyone! -- breaks ground for Fan Pier. |
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PerfectHandle
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 128
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad to hear people express optimism about the Southie Waterfront. I think it could be a great area in time. It's hard to see at the moment with the parking lots and everything, but I definitely don't think it's a lost cause yet. Eventually I think there will be a highly functional neighborhood with a mall or two (I'm ambivalent about this but we shall see) to bring outsiders in and drive the Boston economy. I don't think this is a loss in any sense of the word.
With all the new building underway, I think the long stalled McCourt land and Fan Pier will be spurred on. So many more people will be down there that it will make much more sense to take on the risk involved with those projects. Leading the way might have been too much for both Fan Pier and McCourt since both plots require huge up front commitments that are much less secure when the surrounding areas are unpredictable.
World Trade Center - Check
Manulife - Check
Convention Center - Check
Convention Center Hotel - Check
Silver Line - Check
ICA - Check
Boston Harbor Residences - Check |
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briv
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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I was down the Seaport Sunday for the Suffolk Law graduation as well . I was absolutely astonished at how atrociously awful the BHR is turning out. I wish I had my camera so I could show you all how bad this this thing looks close up. It's clad in the same sort of molded, fiberglass-reinforced-gypsum-shit as the Hotel Commonwealth was originally. How does a piece of garbage design like this even get approved? Fallon, Arrowstreet, the BRA and anyone else even remotely involved with this abortion should be a-fucking-shamed of themselves. Im utterly, utterly, utterly sickened by this development.
But here's the most sickening part: People are probably going to be paying sky-high rents to live in this dump. I dont know whether to laugh or cry at that. |
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tocoto
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 181
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe the exterior of the BHR is supposed to mimic that of the world trade center pier which is sort of grey concrete as well. I also was surprised when I saw the building in person and realized how much worse it was than the renderings. Hopefully, they will add brick accents or something here and there. It is amazing that something so hideous could get through the planning process, but then the planning process is farcical at best. |
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DarkFenX
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Waterfront developers face pier pressure
By Scott Van Voorhis
Wednesday, June 1, 2005
A pair of heavy-hitting business groups are competing for the chance to build out one of the last unspoken for stretches of South Boston's waterfront.
The Massachusetts Port Authority is nearing a decision on which development group to award a coveted lease for the 26-acre North Jetty, once used to park imported cars and more recently Big Dig dirt.
Massport officials have two different plans to pick from, however.
One group, backed by Boston development dean Stephen Karp and waterfront builder Joseph Fallon, calls for a cargo shipping complex to take shape on the waterfront land.
The other proposal, pitched by a consulting group led by former state environmental czar John DeVillars, envisions a fish processing facility.
``No decision has yet been reached,'' said Danny Levy, Massport's director of communications. ``We are looking at all possibilities for the possible re-use of the site.''
Massport's next board meeting is slated for mid-month, at which point the North Jetty decision is likely to be discussed.
Despite the contrasting uses, the state authority may also find a way to split the waterfront tract up between the competing groups, noted Vivien Li, head of the Boston Harbor Association.
Overall, there is still demand for both fish processing plants and cargo facilities on the Boston waterfront, Li said. |
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DarkFenX
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Developer looks south for North Jetty partner
By Scott Van Voorhis
Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - Updated: 12:53 AM EST
Local developer Stephen Karp will team up with a New York cargo complex builder with an eye toward turning a key swath of South Boston's waterfront into a $47 million cargo and fish processing complex.
The Massachusetts Port Authority yesterday designated a team led by New York cargo complex developer Jacob Citrin and his company, Cargo Ventures.
But the venture also includes some local development heavyweights: Karp, Southie waterfront builder Joseph Fallon and Boston Freight Terminals.
The mix of New York and Hub developers is looking to build out the $47 million cargo and fish processing complex at North Jetty.
The roughly 30-acre site is in an industrial section of waterfront, somewhat farther out from downtown Boston than better known sites including Fan Pier and Pier 4, reserved for condo, retail and commercial development. North Jetty plans call for a mix of cargo storage and loading facilities and a fish processing plant in three buildings totaling 440,000 square feet. Some of the cargo will be hauled in an out by rail.
Construction is tentatively slated to begin next year.
``We are moving forward with a key project,'' said Danny Levy, director of Massport communications. |
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DarkFenX
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Developers chosen for $47m project on S. Boston Waterfront
By Chris Reidy, Globe Staff | June 8, 2005
The Massachusetts Port Authority yesterday selected a development team to build a $47 million waterfront project of warehouses and other facilities that could accommodate cold storage, bulk cargoes, and seafood processing at the Massport Marine Terminal in South Boston.
The winning proposal is consistent with Massport's goal of keeping Boston Harbor as ''a working port," said spokeswoman Danny Levy, who added that the project could create 600 jobs.
The winning development team for the 26-acre site includes Cargo Ventures, Boston Freight Terminals, the Fallon Co., and New England Development, which is headed by Stephen R. Karp.
James M. Kelly, city councilor for South Boston, praised Massport's choice.
''This is something good," he said. ''It works for the city. It works for the neighborhood. This is in keeping with the neighborhood's goal -- to have a working port that creates blue-collar jobs," some of which Kelly hopes will go to South Boston residents.
The site has sometimes been used to park imported cars shipped to Boston or to store dirt excavated by Big Dig workers.
Earlier this year, Massport's selection process generated some controversy. At one point, a metal recycling facility appeared to be the front-runner.
That possibility failed to attract widespread support from South Boston, where some residents worried that living near a recycling plant could be a health hazard, Kelly said at the time.
Massive development seems poised to transform South Boston's Seaport District. Last year, the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center opened there, and many ambitious projects to build hotels, office space, and housing are either under construction or being planned. In that context, a recycling plant seemed a bad fit at best and a potential eyesore at worst, some argued.
In March, Mayor Thomas M. Menino objected to the recycling facility proposal, saying that having a ''junkyard" on Boston Harbor was an ''ill-conceived plan." Massport quickly took the plan off the table.
The site is owned by the city but leased by Massport. The mayor's office did not return calls for comment on the winning proposal.
Massport now envisions three buildings with a total of 440,400 square feet, Levy said. One building would be for a warehouse and related office space, she said. Another could be allocated to cold storage and seafood processing. The third could be for storing bulk cargo.
Massport's board has yet to sign off on the final design, something likely to happen in September.
Levy said a ground-breaking is expected in the first quarter of 2006. |
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DarkFenX
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Pier 4 plan hits shoals
By Scott Van Voorhis
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - Updated: 12:23 AM EST
Mega-developer Stephen Karp's vision for redeveloping Anthony's Pier 4 harborside perch includes a deluxe marina alongside a giant residential, retail and restaurant complex.
But while Karp may be seeing green, his proposal for a 50-slip haven for millionaire yachtsmen has harbor pilots who guide big ships through Boston Harbor seeing red.
The Boston Pilot Association is threatening to hold up Karp's 1 million square foot Pier 4 redevelopment plan unless the dean of Hub development drops plans for a posh marina built to moor large yachts.
Gregg Farmer, president of the harbor-pilots group, said a Pier 4 marina would all but make it impossible for large vessels - from U.S. Navy destroyers, to cruise ships - to dock at the adjacent, state-owned Commonwealth Pier.
``Most of the ships require a tug assist in order to berth safely,'' Farmer said. ``If there is a marina at Pier 4, it wouldn't be possible to dock. It would tear the marina up.''
Karp's New England Development, while reluctant to drop the marina plan, has pledged to come back with a creative proposal that harbor pilots can live with.
But Farmer is skeptical that any marina alongside Pier 4 will work.
The slice of harbor between Pier 4 and Commonwealth Pier where large ships occasionally berth is simply too small - with only a few hundred feet to work with, he said.
A cruise ship with a tug alongside would span roughly 260 feet - and that's before taking the ship's propeller and engine into account, Farmer said.
He said that as a cruise ship slid into its berth at Commonwealth Pier, the boat's giant propeller would churn up nearby water - smashing yachts docked at Pier 4 and damaging the marina itself.
The harbor pilots' concerns have the potential to hold back Karp's long-in-the-planning Pier 4 redevelopment.
Having acquired development rights to the landmark site back in 1998, Karp is finally closing in on the last of the regulatory approvals he needs to start building.
But his final hurdle could be the highest - a Chapter 91 waterfront review process in which a small-but-determined group like the harbor pilots could have significant leverage.
``I think it would be difficult for them to get their Chapter 91 license,'' Farmer said. |
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DarkFenX
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Marketing plan urged for Southie waterfront
By Scott Van Voorhis
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - Updated: 12:08 AM EST
Billions of public and private dollars have been pumped into South Boston's waterfront in a bid to make it the Hub's hottest new zip code.
But there may be a less expensive way to win over the public to a stretch of harbor still viewed suspiciously by many observers.
Try a catchy name, fancy signs and colorful maps.
Skeptical? It was just this sort of intense branding campaign that turned London's Canary Wharf from desolate docks to one of the world's most successful high-rise developments, according to architect Stuart Ash.
Ash should know. His firm worked on both the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center and Canary Wharf.
And the veteran architect contends the Hub should steal a page from Canary Wharf's playbook.
``What we are talking about here is creating a neighborhood that people can identify with,'' Ash said.
Canary Wharf faced a similar challenge back in 1988, when it consisted of a single tower amid desolate docklands, Ash said.
But colorful, street-level map displays showing the planned new developments helped create a special identity for the area. As new towers were built, they were given snappy new names.
Ash believes a similar effort would pay off on Southie's waterfront.
For starters, city, state and community leaders would have to pick a name for the area and stick with it. Right now, ``Seaport'' competes with
``South Boston Waterfront.''
Then city and state leaders should define the boundaries of the area, according to Ash.
Street banners and signs pointing the way to the waterfront, and colorful displays showing what's slated to be built next would also be helpful, Ash said.
City and state leaders are receptive to Ash's recommendations, said James Rooney, chief executive of the Massachusetts Convention Center Authority.
``Certainly, an area-wide marketing program is something we need to think about,'' Rooney said.
The Massachusetts Port Authority is now seeking proposals for signs to help pedestrians and motorists find their way around the waterfront. |
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user_22
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 38
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope the problems with the marina is not a deal killer for Pier 4. The last rendering looked quite good. |
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DarkFenX
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Westin plans to be front, center
By Jesse Noyes
Wednesday, June 22, 2005
Waterfront residents and conventioneers may not have to make the trip to Faneuil Hall to find some nightlife when The Westin Boston Waterfront opens next year.
Developers said the convention center headquarters hotel, slated to open in July 2006, is looking to do more than add business to the giant meeting hall in South Boston. It wants to stand out as the waterfront's dining and nightlife destination.
Mayor Thomas M. Menino and the Westin's development team were on hand as the final beam was raised to the top of the building's skeleton yesterday.
The Westin will be ``the impetus for better business for the convention center,'' Menino said.
The hotel will feature 100,000 square feet of retail space - much of which will be filled with restaurants.
``We'd like to build a restaurant complex here,'' said Doug Karp, vice president of New England Development, which is working with Westin. Karp is the son of retail developer Steve Karp.
The Westin complex would feature four to six dining options offering an eclectic mix of high-end eateries and some cheaper alternatives.
The waterfront is typically not known for its nightlife. But developers say there's a demand they want to tap into by appealing to both area residents and out-of-town visitors. The hotel will have its own ``T'' stop.
New England Development made a trip to the International Council of Shopping Centers' convention in Las Vegas last month in search of prospective retail tenants.
Other stores will likely be included in the hotel's available space, but for now developers are focused on getting restaurants on board, Karp said. They hope to have the retail space filled by the hotel's scheduled opening next year. |
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Ron Newman
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I assume they mean the World Trade Center T stop. Where is this hotel in relation to it? |
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DowntownDave
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 374
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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It is next door to the convention center, just to its left as one looks at the front door.
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justin
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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There is supposed to be a SL bus stop in the basement of the convention center (it might actually be under the hotel). That may be what they're refering to.
justin |
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justin
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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I took a walk around the Seaport during the heat wave last week, hence the haze.
CC hotel:
Another view, future raised D St. in the foreground
D St. is being raised slightly to jump over the Haul Rd. and the single-track railway to the actual port:
Views from Viaduct St.
Manhole memento:
Boston Harbor Residences. They are not significantly below Boston average in terms of design and construction. Massing is good, fairly dense, and the facade panels are what they are -- precast concrete, not nearly as bad as the plastic formerly on Hotel Commonwealth. The worst thing might be the windows -- they make the whole thing look like a BU dorm. None of this 'praise' makes me optimistic about the Seaport, but it's not a significant turn for the worse:
Clearing the ground for the hotel (?) between BHR and Manulife:
Now for some aesthetic recharging:
(whoever asked for pictures of Silver Line Way station, it's too your left).
A similar view, on a nice day:
More pictures I posted on the old forum:
Pavement:
Boston's newest subway line:
The new triangular park is actually quite nice. The irregular placing of posts for the central pergola gives it a woodsy feel:
So nice, in fact, that its neighbor accross D St. is completely unnecessary, pretty though it may be:
They might look like a single park on the map, but in reality, try getting from the front to the back of this picture:
Dr. Justin's presctiption: split the lot in half and put a building on each, the one closer to the harbor lower to provide some variety to the Northern Ave. street wall (and Ms. Li would be pleased).
Trompe-l'oeil on the WTC Sq.:

Dragon's tail:
Is there a federal building in the Seaport?
Two views of downtown. From WTC West:
... and Fan Pier:
Two remnants of Fan Pier's maritime and industrial past:
A self-portrait:
justin |
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user_41
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 106
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ Great pics, thanks for the update. |
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Poolio
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 193
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Fantastic update. Thanks for getting some of these projects from fresh angles. BHR is looking somewhat better. I don't like the panels, but with the glass in place the whole package is starting to come together a bit. Good to see work is under way on the Marriott. Let's hope for better quality materials there. |
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Vanshnookenraggen
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 364
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Great pics. I was at the WTC park with that tail thing taking pics when these two fat security guards started giving me a hard time. Glad you got some good pics.
It is funny how architects place parks. Just because there is grass doesn't make it right.
I'm just gonna come out and say this. I'm not that impressed with the Manulife building. It is defiantly the nicest new building out there, but that's because the others are sub-par. I think the ML building would have been better if it was a tower. People compare it to the Pru but I really don't see how they do that. Once the area is built us it will just be another glass and steel box, albeit a nicer one than normal. |
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garbribre
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanshnookenraggen wrote: | | People compare it to the Pru but I really don't see how they do that. |
To the Pru? In what way?
| Vanshnookenraggen wrote: | | I'm just gonna come out and say this. I'm not that impressed with the Manulife building. It is defiantly the nicest new building out there, but that's because the others are sub-par. I think the ML building would have been better if it was a tower..... Once the area is built us it will just be another glass and steel box, albeit a nicer one than normal. |
It may seem that I am personally anti-glass curtain wall, but I'm not. I just don't think any of the treatments I've observed here are all that wonderful. So many on this forum elevate a building's design aesthetic because it is mostly glass, or that glass structures can cure a building's contextural ills. I don't see that.
Manulife is okay. But it belongs in a suburban office park. Back to the glass curtain walls: I don't understand the design restrictions required for a 'green' office building, but the few examples I've seen (DC, SF, Oakland) are all vastly different in design. Glass can't be the end-all here either. |
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Vanshnookenraggen
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 364
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| By Pru, I meant that it will define the area. In a way it does: an area with no clear plan, filled with post-war office park buildings. LAME!! |
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garbribre
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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The Pru had a clear plan. It just isn't acceptable by today's standards of urbanity.
The Seaport has a plan, too. Clearly, the planning powers that be have learned nothing.
In reference to the photos of the BHR: it's the projects, 21st century style. Well, at least there are no balconies.
Are the plethora of parks in the Seaport built over the submerged roadways? |
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justin
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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None, so far as I know.
justin |
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tocoto
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 181
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| The seaport will never be like the back bay, south end or other fne grained areas of Boston that are so great. Maybe it's financially unfeasible, maybe the political will isn't there. ML is a decent looking building that will still look good in 25 years, It would definitely be better if it were taller (as is the case for many a Boston building). The rest of the buildings down there so far are not inspired. Maybe the buildings cautious with cheap materials because the seaport is not established enough yet for developers to take any risks Even the convention center, which has an impressive and unique design, doesn't integrate well into the streetscape. As the area is built out, street walls will form with some annoying breaks due to misplaced parks and buildings set back from the street. That will make the area seem a lot more attractive to a human being who happens to be in the area. The seaport could look something like parts of Vancouver or San Diego, neither of which is a design model for most of us, but they are urban and interesting just the same. |
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statler
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Boston sampler
By Steve Bailey | June 24, 2005
It is a mistake to think progress is not happening on the South Boston Waterfront. The latest evidence: A key site just across from the new convention center is changing hands, meaning construction could begin in less than a year on nearly 700 units of long-stalled housing on D Street.
Intercontinental Real Estate Corp. in Boston closed yesterday on a deal to buy the big D Street property from AEW Partners, an investment firm. The reported price: $20 million on a project budgeted to eventually cost $240 million. Peter Palandjian, Intercontinental's chief executive, would only say: ''Yes, we bought it today. Intercontinental looks at dozens of deals a week, but we feel with the greatest confidence that D Street is an incredible opportunity."
The project would be a solid affirmation of the $800 million convention center and would fill an important geographic and social gap between the South Boston community and the million-dollar condos slated for the waterfront. And if it gets done, it will be blue-collar money -- union pension funds invested through Intercontinental -- that makes it happen.
This is a huge project that includes a garage for about 1,000 cars. Cathartes Investments got the project nearly fully permitted, but never got anything built. The project may be best known for sparking an acrimonious split five years ago between the Menino administration and the South Boston Betterment Trust, which had been designated to build 130 affordable units on the site. But the Boston Redevelopment Authority eventually said the Betterment Trust, controlled by a trio of neighborhood politicians, would have to compete with everyone else.
BRA director Mark Maloney said the sale should allow the project to finally move forward, probably as condos, not apartments. ''It was not possible to finance as a rental development," he said. ''Changing the business plan a bit will allow it to happen."
. . .
<SNIP>
Neighborhood news. Michael Lewis, one of America's best financial writers, was talking about his entertaining baseball book, ''Moneyball," Wednesday night at a dinner hosted by International Place developer Don Chiofaro when someone asked about Frank McCourt, the Boston parking lot owner/developer who now owns the Los Angeles Dodgers. Lewis said he doesn't know McCourt, but was amazed when he looked out on McCourt's parking lots from atop International Place. ''That's what he has? That is breathtaking to me," said Lewis, and he didn't mean he was impressed. ''I take it that even people who do business with him don't know where the money is coming from." Added Lewis: ''I get nervous when I see the owner in the stands waving towels."
If McCourt can pull off his joint venture with the Related Cos. to develop those parking lots, he could still have the last laugh.
Steve Bailey is a Globe columnist. He can be reached at bailey@globe.com or at 617-929-2902.
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Joe_Schmoe
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 180
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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"The seaport will never be like the back bay, south end or other fne grained areas of Boston that are so great."
Sad but true. But the real tragedy is that they never even tried to make it great. They could have if they wanted to. The seaport is not designed to be Boston's great neighborhood for the 21st century the way the North End was for the 18th century, Beacon Hill and Back Bay for for the 19th (sadly but tellingly and appropriately, the West End is our model of a ideal 20th century urban neighborhood). The seaport is designed with one thing in mind--maximixing tax dollars. Both the seaport and North Point are huge lost opportunities, perhaps the last opportunities there will be for the area. But what is so sad is that we all know what makes a great neighborhood--mixed use, high density, narrow streets, street walls---but refuse to implement it.
Last edited by Joe_Schmoe on Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 402
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Great to hear the D street project is coming back to life. Does anyone have the old renderings?
Justin, very nice job with the tour.
I'm still wondering what is going to go between the south tower of BHR and the Marriott and which project it's part of. This rendering shows a smaller building there:
but then after looking at this pic, the rendering doesn't seem accurate:
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garbribre
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe_Schmoe wrote: | "The seaport will never be like the back bay, south end or other fine grained areas of Boston that are so great."
Sad but true. But the real tragedy is that they never even tried to make it great. They could have if they wanted to. Both the seaport and North Point are huge lost opportunities, perhaps the last opportunities there will be for the area. But what is so sad is that we all know what makes a great neighborhood--mixed use, high density, narrow streets, street walls--but refuse to implement it. |
Long rant. Oh, yes, Joe Schmoe. To beat a dead-ish horse, no the Seaport shouldn't be the Back Bay, South End, North End, etc., but this new model of urban planning is suburban (and cold). Maybe that is the model of urban planning today because that is the perception of what planners believe the masses want--wide streets with parking, wide sidewalks, lots of light, clean, unobscured lines with sweeping, gap-y vistas.
After wandering though SF's South of Market this Monday, (sorry--not a picture taker, but I may borrow a camera to snap a few 'don't do it like this anymore' photos), the Seaport is becoming a mirror image of SF's SOMA (toward SF's emerging Mission Bay district). The area south beyond Giant's Stadium is awful. The street was made so wide in places to accommodate the heavy traffic and the exit from I280 that to cross the street, one often needs to wait two traffic signal cycles. Four lanes of traffic and parking in each direction, dedicated LRV and platforms in the center (where you need to wait for the second traffic light cycle in order to cross), triple wide sidewalks with no trees (occasional shade would've been nice under the hot sun) and no indication that trees will be planted. Big box stores line the street opposite the ballpark (Safeway, Borders) but smaller businesses do appear on the ballpark side, mostly fast food and services for the apartments/condos built above. Sidewalk restaurants (mega-sized), likely designed to cater more to ballpark crowds, fill some of the storefronts. Much of the retail remains empty, though. The structures are monolithic, megablock buildings, sometimes split mid-block by a barren plaza with 'artistic sculptures' and a few concrete or metal benches to fill the spaces, again with little greenery or shade trees. The mid-rise residences are bland, flat, boxy, multi-colored panelled, and relatively indistinguishable from each other (and gated in some instances).
The Seaport could be as bad, but seems to have made a few adjustments in relation to the SF SOMA model. Also, the Seaport is not being built out as quickly, believe it or not, as SOMA. But that's because the entire Seaport District is a vaster land mass. More buildings are going up in Boston simultaneously than here in SF, because Boston's are more scattered about. It could be a good thing that McCourt and other projects are being delayed. It may cause some hindsite and redesign.
Are both of these massive urban projects better than vast empty parking lots surrounding underutilized warehouses. Sure. Housing is needed. People are needed. However, with an evening baseball game three hours away, and just after lunchtime, the complete lack of humans (just a few dogwalkers and last minute ticket buyers) on the sidewalk made it look even worse. Shockingly, the Borders and Safeway were devoid of shoppers. The outdoor tables at lunchtime were maybe half occupied. I poked my head into two restaurants and they were realtively empty. Will the Convention Center be a better people magnet for more 24 hour life than a ballpark? I think so. There's more hope for the Boston Seaport to be more vibrant than SF SOMA.
(Plus I'm pissed that SF developers tore down two of my fave nightclubs, a fave restaurant, and my auto mechanic had to relocate to construct this hooey.)
Short term SOMA prognosis--appalling! Will Boston's planners adjust? I hope so. |
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justin
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the gloom about the Seaport. Three consoling thoughts: a) it's not developing so quickly that it will be done before people realize what's going wrong;
b) I detect an upward learning curve, albeit not too steep. WTC West is decidedly better than WTC East, which is better in turn than the seaport hotel (the one building there I'd like to see torn down soon). Manulife is a fine building in absolute terms, and possibly appropriate as a sculptural centerpiece for the area, and BHR at least has good urban massing. I am worried about the low-slung megablock mall planned between the convention center and WTC. Any news on that?
c) The development is happening away from downtown. As it moves closer, hopefully it will get better.
In response to Vanshnook... (serves you right for having a creative handle!) and in defense of Manulife: Is it suburban? I'm not sure what you mean by this. I'll be favorably impressed if you give me half a dozen examples of architecture of comparable quality in suburban office parks. Perhaps what you are objecting to is precisely its quality of a freestanding sculpture which is difficult to fit into an urban street pattern. I see that danger too, and the extent to which it's realized will depend mostly on surrounding buildings. If they are fairly dense and unremarkable (as BHR promises to be), the Manulife will benefit from the contrast and provide a visual focal point for the area; if not, we'll indeed have an oversized office park.
Glass curtain walls: either you like them or not, not much scope for argument here. They aren't a uniform blessing: compare Hancock's obelisk with the rigid and glossy Exchange Place. When they are good, as in Hancock and Manulife, they work by enlisting the environment, especially the sky, as facade decoration. They are always changing and organic, just plain fun to look at (look at the difference in color between my hazy day and clear day photographs above). Come to think about it, these are more-or-less the same reasons why I, no great fan of surface decoration, like the ornate facades of Boston's 19th and early 20th office buildings much better than their cutesy simplified PoMo imitators: not for the artistry of this or that piece of relief (more often than not mediocre), nor for the (mostly ignored) narratives they sometimes attempt, but because they encrust the surface like an organic growth, keeping the eyes wandering and giving light plenty of room to play. The modern architect who figures out a new way of achieving this effect, without being crassly referential or representational, will justly earn his fame. My one objection to the Manulife's curtain wall are the white panels visible at the top of the panes.
Another reason I like Manulife is the pure sensuous pleasure of its curves, and the intellectual one of perceiving the rigor with which they are pursued as the unifying theme for the building, from the floor plan down to sidewalk paving. The jury may be out on 500 Atlantic, but here the curves are definitely organic to the structure, not slathered on. The reference to waves is even more pronounced here, almost literal (but those two are probably enough curves for the waterfront; the next one will be trite).
Should it have been a tower? Depends on why you like towers. If you have a phallophillic attachment to height, the answer is yes, of course. My preference for more height in Boston comes not because I like height in itself, but of proportion. Most Boston's skyscrapers are not too short; they're too short their girth. On this score, Manulife is a finely proportioned building, helped not least by the irregular setbacks provided by the curves. It would have been harder to pursue the curve idea into a tower
To put Manulife into perspective, take a look at NYC's most high-profile recent architectural debacle, all the worse for its location right next to the lovely 1850's Cooper Union:
[img]www.wirednewyork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=209[/img]
[img]http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=122&stc=1&thumb=1[/img] |
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garbribre
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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A friend stayed at the Seaport Hotel. Her quick take on it:
"The hotel was good, although if you were on vacation, then I'd never choose to stay there. It's expensive and not close to anything fun, except for the No Name restaurant. The Silver Line makes it better though. The conference was in the hotel. That's the only reason I stayed there. It was definitely too hot and humid for me. On Saturday it was 97 degrees! Bleh!"
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Justin, during the 80's, I liked Exchange Place, especially its faceted massing at the top. However, I wish it was a stand-alone structure. I don't like that it is attached to the old 53 State Street Exchange Building, especially the opera house lobby-like treatment of the original staircase. I wish they had just built the tower and avoided the kitch of 'unifying' the two buildings, maintaining the old building in its entirety. Although, I recall the Congress Street side of the older building was rather unornamental. And who knows if it would have improved the interplay between the two buildings or if the tower's base would have changed if it was approached this way.
And, dare I say, without the white panels, Manulife would be even less appealing. It gives me, as I like to have, a reference of proportion along the individual levels and breaks up what would be an unidentifiable, human-scaled relationship from floor to floor. I no longer want to see sheer curtain walls with no articulation of height and space between each and every floor.
I consider Manulife an office park structure because it does stand isolated, pretty much filling an entire block. And even though there seems to be a visual break between the boxy downtown side and the undulating Southie side, to me, it reads as one disproportionate mass. The curves cannot be organic to the structure because that implies to me it follows the natural form of the land it's on. These forms are purely there, as you say, for variety and the interplay of light. Sometimes, unfortunately, that is the form of ornamental expression we seem to now have, as opposed to the excess (or not) ornamental flourishes of the 19th and early 20th century buildings. Oh, and those silver metal casings surrounding the ground level pillars are sooooo late 70's/early 80's. Where's the disco ball? Outwardly, this building is not revolutionary. It's a reference to a style I'd hoped had passed, and was never to be revisited without some progressive improvement.
And that NYC Cooper Square building IS awful, especially in the context of its location. (Heh, maybe Manulife isn't so bad comparatively.) But in another locale or context, either of these structures may suddenly seem magnificent. |
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Joe_Schmoe
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 180
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on Manulife. I come down on the office park side of the debate. I feel that if Manulife sat by itself on, say, route 128 it would just be another Westin Hotel, Waltham, and we either wouldn't pay it a second's notice, or simply deride it as another cold glass suburban office park. I think Robert Campbell said that all styles in Boston tend to be late styles because of the conservatism. And so the rest of the world seems to be moving away from the glass of the 1980s and Boston is having something of a boom (Manulife, Columbus Center, 500 Atlantic, Russia Wharf, North Station, etc). |
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ablarc
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe_Schmoe wrote: | | I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on Manulife. I come down on the office park side of the debate. I feel that if Manulife sat by itself on, say, route 128 it would just be another Westin Hotel, Waltham, and we either wouldn't pay it a second's notice, or simply deride it as another cold glass suburban office park. |
Agreed.
| Joe_Schmoe wrote: | | I think Robert Campbell said that all styles in Boston tend to be late styles because of the conservatism. And so the rest of the world seems to be moving away from the glass of the 1980s and Boston is having something of a boom (Manulife, Columbus Center, 500 Atlantic, Russia Wharf, North Station, etc). |
Good point.
Btw, that Gwathmey building's not as bad as it's often said to be. Saw it the other day, but didn't have my camera.
Astor Place has been an amorphous mess for decades (centuries?), populated with interesting architectural prima donnas that don't talk to each other. Gwathmey's building fits right into that context and actually strengthens it. It's not so bad for an occasional place to be like that. Dewey Square's similarly chaotic; when it finally gets pulled together, it'll benefit from the diversity. |
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DarkFenX
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Seaport residential parcel sold
Boston Business Journal
CB Richard Ellis/Whittier Partners announced Tuesday it closed on the sale of a 695-unit residential development site in Boston's Seaport District.
The site, at 371-401 D Street, is fully approved and was sold by AEW Partners II LP to Intercontinental Real Estate Corp.'s Investment Fund IV LLC. The sale price was not disclosed.
The proposed development consists of a fully approved 695-unit residential site located between 371 and 401 D Street, adjacent to the new Boston Convention and Exhibition Center.
The Seaport District is a fast-growing area of Boston with the new Boston Convention Center Hotel as well as the new Park Lane Seaport apartments currently under construction. Other new developments over the past few years include the Seaport World Trade Center Boston and the recently opened headquarters building for Manulife Financial.
CB Richard Ellis/Northeast Multi-Housing Team exclusively represented the seller, AEW Partners II LP, a partnership controlled by AEW Capital Management LP and procured the buyer, Intercontinental Real Estate Corp.
Since 2004, the CB Richard Ellis/Northeast Multi-Housing Team has completed multifamily sales in excess of $570 million, totaling over 5,690 units throughout Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York and Rhode Island. |
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budman3
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 58
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: re: |
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| 695 units sounds like a lot to me compared to other projects, how big is this project? |
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user_45
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 48
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Last night I went to see the Moody Blues concert at the BankBoston Pavilion, and parked INSIDE the Boston Harbor Residences, in what looked like a still-unfinished parking garage. I have never seen parking allowed in an ongoing construction project, is this a common practice to start making money right away?
Anyways sorry I dont have any pics, but from those already posted and my experiences yesterday the whole development on that parcel seems quite mediocre, at best. I am largely disappointed in how the whole seaport area is turning out. The best hope is to build on the more fine-grained urban areas in the Fort Point district. A shame, for the whole area had such potential. And the Silver Line is, I think we can all agree, quite a ridiculous boondoggle that will hopefully be changed into a realingned Green Line in the near future.
Anyways the concert was good....
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Brian
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 51
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| How is it that the creators of Celebration, FL developed a better urban space than the Seaport? Better architects? Maybe Boston should have hired Robert Stern. |
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tocoto
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 181
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The building is so much uglier than it appears in the rendering (not that the rendering looks that great). This seems to be a trend in Boston lately. |
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PaulC
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 172
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: Park Lane Seaport update |
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web site for Park Lane Seaport:
http://www.parklaneseaport.com
Park Lane Seaport topped off Wednesday:
[url]http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2005/07/18/daily34.html?jst=b_ln_hl[/url}[/url] |
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DowntownDave
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 374
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Well, I guess I have a one word comment --- Blech!
What color is that, anyways?
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Bowwest
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 616
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:32 am Post subject: |
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BostonFaker
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 703
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:22 am Post subject: |
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That wide-angle pic makes the Seaport look like it is actually dense.
[Page 7....and the beat goes on...] |
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garbribre
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| DowntownDave wrote: | Well, I guess I have a one word comment --- Blech!
What color is that, anyways?
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Ashen grey, terra cotta, pepto vomit. A friend just painted a house these colors with periwinkle trim. Almost works on a two bedroom cottage.
Could be worse. It could be like the power substation on the far right. |
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Poolio
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 193
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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The pano reminds me of how much I dislike the Metropolitan. The cornice in particular is a huge disappointment. Would it have been too much to ask to cap the building with something substantial, something befitting a 23 story building? It looks like the developer just ran out of money and stopped before it was finished. I kept expecting this to be completed, to resemble the conservative but elegants cornices of the lowrise portion.
How much worse, really, is BHR than the Metropolitan? The only advantage Metropolitan has is height. Otherwise they are of similar hue, materials, and general cheapness. I actually think BHR is shaping up okay, as the windows and "finishes" go on. Not good, mind you, just not repulsive. |
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Bowwest
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 616
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:19 am Post subject: |
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tocoto
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 181
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:57 am Post subject: |
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I like the Metropoitan much better than BHR. I has much more variation in color and texture, and the windows make it look for far more verticle enhancing its height. I even like the cornice. It's modern and light instead of old fashioned and heavy.
The BHR looks like a prison with its small, square, cookie cutter windows on a concrete gray background. There is almost nothing interesting about the buildings at all. Hopefully, the new hotel they started next door will block the BHR and let fade into the background, since it is so bland that is the only thing it could do well. |
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Bowwest
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 616
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:31 am Post subject: |
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8/11
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Jasonik
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 40
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| that's horrible |
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Vanshnookenraggen
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 364
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| My god is that bad. Even Miami Beach wouldn't allow something like that! |
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BOSDevelopment
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 293
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:17 am Post subject: wel |
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| If they made something next to it that stood out, nobody would notice it at all. It would blend in with just about anything. |
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Bos77
Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 37
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:20 am Post subject: ick... |
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This exemplifies the absolute failure of the BRA design review process. Not one, but a whole cluster of sh-tty buildings (except for Manulife of which I am a fan). What an shame!!!
And I'd love to meet the architectural renderers at Arrowstreet! I can just see the principles of the firm and Fallon execs in a meeting, yelling at the architectural underlings to pretty up the drawings to get them through the design approval process. |
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