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North Station Expansion

 
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BlinkieOB



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:03 pm    Post subject: North Station Expansion Reply with quote

On the commuter rail this morning, there were notes from Dan Grabauskas on every seat about a coming expansion of the waiting area at North Station. This is something that is so severely needed it isn't even funny. I always kind of guessed we would have to wait until one of the North Station Towers went up for this to happen, but apparently they are going to start on a project in June and aim to be done in November. It sounded like the plan was actually to expand out towards the tracks.

Here is a story from the Metro on it, too:
http://boston.metro.us/metro/local/article/Coming_soon_More_room_at_North_Station/2242.html

I noticed a poster at North Station with some details and a floorplan, but I didn't have time to stop and look. Maybe I'll try to take a picture on my way through this afternoon.
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BlinkieOB



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and from the Globe...

Expansion of North Station to be done by November
April 26, 2006

BOSTON --North Station, which serves five commuter rail lines and Amtrak's Downeaster service to New Hampshire and Maine, will be expanded, a project that will be paid for by the owners and operators of the TD Banknorth Garden and completed by November, officials said.

The 20,000-square-foot, multi-million-dollar project will more than double the concourse's size, and MBTA officials hope it will relieve long-standing gripes from passengers about crowding.

"It's a great deal for us," Daniel A. Grabauskas, general manager of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, said Tuesday. "We're delivering what the customer wants, as quickly as we can, and finally giving our northside passengers the same welcome to Boston that our (South Station) passengers get."

On an average weekday, 187 commuter rail trips bring nearly 50,000 passengers in and out of North Station.

The expansion is being financed entirely by the Delaware North Companies-Boston, which sits atop North Station. An official with Delaware North declined to say how much the project will cost, but told The Boston Globe it would not be more than $10 million.

The planned changes will significantly enlarge the waiting area and add tables, chairs and benches in a climate-controlled space. Food vendors and services will be added, and a large, overhead board would display schedule and track information. The design also will include crowd-control measures to separate Garden patrons from outgoing commuters, Grabauskas said.

Delaware North will maintain and clean the station, the MBTA will get a chance for new advertising revenue. The two plan to split revenue from new vendors.
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TheBostonian



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 617

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"officials said they began talking to officials at the Delaware North Companies-Boston about six months ago after it became clear that development on the original Boston Garden site adjacent to Causeway Street was not going to happen. The T had planned to use that site, now a parking lot, to expand North Station."

Which development isn't happening?
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BlinkieOB



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheBostonian wrote:
"officials said they began talking to officials at the Delaware North Companies-Boston about six months ago after it became clear that development on the original Boston Garden site adjacent to Causeway Street was not going to happen. The T had planned to use that site, now a parking lot, to expand North Station."

Which development isn't happening?


I assume they're only talking about the delay of the North Station Towers. I certainly hope they meant "not going to happen any time soon." It would kind of make sense because, realistically it will probably be, what? 2010 before any North Station Towers are open? If we're LUCKY!

That would be way too long to wait to address the problems at the Commuter Rail waiting area. In the evening, if boarding of one train is delayed, by even 5 minutes (something that happens frequently) it is nearly impossible to even move in there. Also, trying to make your way to the commuter rail area while an event is getting out feels pretty close to impossible as well.
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LeTaureau



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what is meant is that T officials planned to expand North Station onto the parking lot site. But since that is not going to happen, they are going to expand the concourse out over the tracks. The parking lot is instead slated for private development.
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chumbolly



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope that when the parking lot is developed, a central entrance for the station is included. The side-entrances to the station feel very temporary, and they're certainly undistinguished.
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user_22



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, at this stage, something is better than nothing, but only 10 million dollars for the expansion? I suspect it will mainly be functional box over the tracks with nothing architecturally remarkable whatsoever. I can't imagine the moron who designed the "glorified hallway" in the first place, what was he/she thinking?
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BlinkieOB



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChunkyMonkey wrote:
Well, at this stage, something is better than nothing, but only 10 million dollars for the expansion? I suspect it will mainly be functional box over the tracks with nothing architecturally remarkable whatsoever. I can't imagine the moron who designed the "glorified hallway" in the first place, what was he/she thinking?


In his defense, he was probably thinking it would be only a temporary solution for a year or two until the North Station Towers were built. Then again, I guess that still makes him a moron for thinking that the towers would be built that quickly.
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Ron Newman



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was thinking that a waiting room would be built on the ground floor of the Old Garden lot, and therefore people would only be briefly passing through this hallway on the way to their trains.

Seemed like a reasonable assumption at the time.
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dudeursistershot



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 715

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChunkyMonkey wrote:
Well, at this stage, something is better than nothing, but only 10 million dollars for the expansion? I suspect it will mainly be functional box over the tracks with nothing architecturally remarkable whatsoever. I can't imagine the moron who designed the "glorified hallway" in the first place, what was he/she thinking?


No, it's just being done by a private company with competent managers and oversight. Therefore, what would be a $30-40 million project under T management becomes a $10 million project.
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BlinkieOB



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it isn't going to be an addition onto the building at all. From outside, you won't be able to tell anything has changed. The tracks currently run about halfway into the depth of the building, with the platforms starting underneath the garden and extending out past the building. It sounds like this plan will just reclaim some of the platform space that is already under the building and turn it into an expanded waiting area.
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BlinkieOB



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A sign displayed in North Station today. Sorry for the poor quality. I literally paused for 2 seconds and continued on so I didn't miss my train.



The yellow marks the existing waiting area and the red/pink marks the expansion. There are also expanded bathrooms shwon on the left.
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TheBostonian



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 617

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is this funded entirely by the Garden? Is it simply that it is in their financial interest to have a better North Station? Is there a catch, some sort of hidden cost to the MBTA? If this indeed comes at no cost to the MBTA then T management deserves praise for this arrangement and it should be repeated as much as possible for other improvements.
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ckb



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheBostonian wrote:
Why is this funded entirely by the Garden? Is it simply that it is in their financial interest to have a better North Station? Is there a catch, some sort of hidden cost to the MBTA? If this indeed comes at no cost to the MBTA then T management deserves praise for this arrangement and it should be repeated as much as possible for other improvements.


From other articles/sources ..... This is being done in exchange for the MBTA giving up an easement for North Station expansion in the other direction -- towards Causeway St -- underneath future North Station tower development. This will make such future development cheaper.
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justin



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meaning no grand entrance to North Station from Causeway St.? What about the underground connection to the T station?

justin
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ckb



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justin wrote:
Meaning no grand entrance to North Station from Causeway St.? What about the underground connection to the T station?

justin


This seems to be pretty much unknown at this point.

I wrote in the thread over in the Transit and Infrastructure that I hope whatever development does come in front of the New Garden will realize the value of an concourse between Causeway St. and North Station (and the Garden entrances) as well as a connection to the subway stations. With all the foot traffic passing through, this seems like a no-brainer for some successful retail, but one never knows.
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Roxxma



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ckb wrote:
I wrote in the thread over in the Transit and Infrastructure that I hope whatever development does come in front of the New Garden will realize the value of an concourse between Causeway St. and North Station (and the Garden entrances) as well as a connection to the subway stations. With all the foot traffic passing through, this seems like a no-brainer for some successful retail, but one never knows.

Go to any urban train station in Germany and you will see this. In all but the smallest stations, most of the space between the station entrance and concourse is spilling over with commerce. The Deutsche Bahn makes a pretty good profit on its retail real estate division by renting out retail space in its stations. As a matter of fact, I cannot recall seeing many retail vacancies in German rail stations. The MBTA would do well to take notice.


Last edited by Roxxma on Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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statler



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roxxma wrote:
ckb wrote:
I wrote in the thread over in the Transit and Infrastructure that I hope whatever development does come in front of the New Garden will realize the value of an concourse between Causeway St. and North Station (and the Garden entrances) as well as a connection to the subway stations. With all the foot traffic passing through, this seems like a no-brainer for some successful retail, but one never knows.

Go to any urban train station in Germany and you will see this. In all but the smallest stations, most of the space between the station entrance and concourse is spilling over with commerce. The Deutsche Bahn makes a pretty good profit on its retail real estate division by renting out retail space in its stations. As a matter of fact, I cannot recall seeing many retail vacancies in Geerman rail stations. The MBTA would do well to take notice.


South Station for example?
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Roxxma



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

statler wrote:


South Station for example?


Not really. A small food court and news stand doesn't compare. The retail areas in large (and many smaller) German train stations are much more diverse. Most have at least one supermarket, a drug store, book store a few clothing stores, dry cleaners and a food court as well as a few restaurants, a McClean franchise (which is an immaculate pay restroom with shower facilities aimed at long distance travellers) not to mention news and food stands on the way to the concourse. I think Terminal C at Logan may be a better example.
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Ron Newman



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC Penn Station, as much as most of us may hate it, is overflowing with commerce. (So are Grand Central and Port Authority Bus Terminal.)
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