archBOSTON ARCHIVE

JoeGallows · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 96

I was just reading Bostonist and saw this bit of information here:

http://www.bostonist.com/archives/2006/02/09/the_hub_of_all_apple_stores.php.

The second paragraph houses the meat of the information with links plenty of links. Is 815 Boylston any sort of historic structure that was allowed to deteriorate so badly? Anyone have any thoughts about this? The rumor seems to have plently of information behind it, so it seems likely to happen. I just wanted to bring it to everyone's attention just in case it was to slip by.

I personally don't care about it becoming an Apple Store, but it could be interesting to see what sort of things might be done with the rumored 4 stories of glass. Although, what can be done with just glass and 4 stories?

chumbolly · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 120

Hmmm, demolish an unremarkable two store building and replace it with sleek modern architecture filled with Apple-y goodness? I hope the Back Bay Historical Commission--or whoever those ass-clowns are that opposed the new T elevators by the Public library--stops this madness. Okay, kidding aside, this is such good news. I was checking out the construction site for the Mandarin Oriental just a few days ago and thought "now, if they could just replace that building with the Copy Cop...."

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Only four stories?

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

I never understood why Apple put their store in the Cambridgeside Galleria instead of Harvard Square. The Square could use them right now.

DarkFenX · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111

Apple plans flagship store in Back Bay
Computer maker aims to build 4-story 'jewel'

By Jenn Abelson and Chris Reidy, Globe Staff | February 10, 2006

Apple Computer Inc. plans to open a four-story flagship store on Boylston Street across from the Prudential Center in what would be its first location in Boston, said a local official yesterday who has direct knowledge of the deal.

Apple is purchasing the building, which currently houses Copy Cop, and is planning to take it down and erect a glass-covered retail ''jewel" within the next two years, according to the official, who asked for anonymity because the project is not yet public.

''It will literally glisten in the Back Bay," the official said.

Susan Elsbree, a spokeswoman for the Boston Redevelopment Authority, would not provide details on Apple's plans but said: ''We're excited that Apple is looking to Boston to open a store. Apple represents innovation, technology, and cutting-edge design -- all of which we think match the Boston brand."

Elsbree and the local official said it's a prime location for Apple and will attract thousands of young people the heart of a premier shopping district, the Hynes Veterans Memorial Convention Center, and nearby hotels.

Apple spokeswoman Monica Wik declined to comment.

Last month, the maker of the popular iPod reported its sales reached $1 billion for the first time, up from $561 million a year ago. The company said it planned to open 40 stores in 2006, in addition to the 135 locations it currently runs. In Massachusetts, Apple operates stores in Braintree, Burlington, Cambridge, Chestnut Hill, and Peabody.

The local official said Apple will bring in the highest level of design and its modern approach is not unprecedented in the area. That section of the Back Bay is a historic district, which could complicate site plans.

''We think this can enhance the historic district," the official said.

The addition of an Apple store to Boylston Street would further bolster the area as a coveted shopping destination. Boylston is undergoing a retail makeover with the renovation of Lord & Taylor, the addition of cheap chic Swedish retailer H&M, and the construction of the Mandarin Oriental, a five-star hotel that will also house high-end boutiques.

Some Back Bay residents and neighborhood leaders said they welcome an Apple store but said it is difficult to comment without seeing any specific plans for the project.

''It's very unusual to have something torn down in the Back Bay," said Elliott Laffer, a longtime neighborhood activist. ''But Copy Cop is not the most distinguished of buildings. How the neighborhood would react would depend on what's proposed."

At the Back Bay Association, a group of neighborhood businesses, president Meg Mainzer-Cohen said: ''We would welcome them and help them with the community process. I think it would be phenomenal to have an Apple store in the Back Bay."

''A new Apple store is very exciting," said Jacquelin Yessian, vice chairwoman of the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay. ''And we know that any changes they propose for the exterior of the building including demolition will go through the proper review channels, including the Back Bay Architectural Commission."

Matt · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 840

excellent! I hate that space...one more piece into turning boylston around. This could become our Michigan Avenue

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Where is the H&M store going?

Matt · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 840

it's going in the New England Life (or whatever it's called...now the 'newbry)...where Guess used to be on Newbury st. Guess moved over, H&M will be at that corner (of berkeley), two stories.

LeTaureau · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

This will be an awesome addition to the Boylston street scape. Now if only a Zara were to move in, it would really feel like Montreal in the Back Bay.

Bos77 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 37

If Zara dosn't go on Bolyston, it will be in 'waterside place'. Developers have mentioned it for both areas. A Mexx would be nice too.

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''A new Apple store is very exciting," said Jacquelin Yessian, vice chairwoman of the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay. ''And we know that any changes they propose for the exterior of the building including demolition will go through the proper review channels, including the Back Bay Architectural Commission."
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So this means it will be a watered down, dumbed down, mickey-mouse version of what could have been. The NYC and London stores are beautiful modern design, but similar in style. I wonder if they will try to do something different, or just more green glass, chrome, and white... ?

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

What is 'Zara'? What is 'Mexx' ?

I expect the demolition review will be a formality, and not a major impediment to building. The whole Back Bay is a historic district, so the same guidelines apply to any demolition of any structure there.

Bos77 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 37

They are clothing stores... both big in Europe, with a few stores in the U.S. I'm not a major clothes shopper, but when I've been to these stores overseas or Canada, they have always had nice stuff and great staff. Zara is from Spain, and Mexx from the Netherlands I believe.

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

I do wonder why the Back Bay review process allowed demolition of the Paris movie theatre in favor of a one (or two?)-story Walgreen's...

Roxxma · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 170

I think they should try to convince C&A to open a store in Boston. I have been to them in Berlin and Mannheim. Stylish cheap clothing. Like H&M but with a much wider selection.

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Are more clothing stores what the Back Bay really needs? Can we make room for some culture, arts, or entertainment?

When I first moved here, you could find the following on the Back Bay part of Boylston Street, or within one block of it:

- Movie theatres, six of them, whose audiences ranged from the Hollywood mainstream to the totally exotic: Cheri, Exeter St, Cinema 733, Paris, Garden, and Park Square

- Bookstores -- Paperback Booksmith (later renamed Buddenbrooks) on Boylston; Harvard Book Store Cafe on Newbury; and later, Waterstone's in the former Exeter theatre building. Also Avenue Victor Hugo books on Newbury, and I think some other smaller used stores.

- Music clubs -- the ones I remember were Paul's Mall and The Jazz Workshop, but I don't think they were the only ones

- A sporadically active live stage theatre, originally called New England Life Hall and later the Copley Theatre

All of these are gone, and they haven't been replaced. In a few months, the Institute for Contemporary Art will be leaving the neighborhood as well.

chumbolly · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 120

Ron, I think that the market for some of those cultural things you pine for has fundamentally changed. I buy almost all my books from Amazon, and most of the movies I see are mailed to me by Netflix. For better or worse, I'm not alone. There obviously used to be much more demand for the things you list; now there's demand for other things, like cheap, disposable fashion from Europe, apparently. I think the city would be better if all your theaters had been saved, but you're swimming up stream. How to change that?

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

I see your point, but surely the Net doesn't replace demand for live music and theatre?

statler · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

LeTaureau · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

Bos77 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 37

I actually don't disagree with you Ron, there has been a shift away from culture, and like everything else in the world, the mom and pops, are basically gone. I don't know if it is because so many businesses have folded into the corporate giants of the world, if these small businesses can't survive because of market pressue from the giants who buy out there rents and leases and can underprice them, or if as a society, our tastes are so fractured, diversified, and distracted, that these businesses can't be supported anymore; so you need a 150,000 square foot book store to cater to everyone.

The loss of small bookstores and theaters is sad, because most were really unique. At least some of these insitutions like the ICA are merely moving, rather than dissapearing altogether. Plus other arts organizations in the city are expanding. Love or hate retail, in the end, it is better than no activity at all.

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

I don't by any means hate retail, but a few music clubs would contribute a lot more to Boston than a bunch more European clothing stores.

We lost our House of Blues a couple years ago; I'd like to see it come back. (Sure, it's a national chain, but we had the very first one.)

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Going back to the subject of Apple Stores -- Providence could really use one of these.

quadratdackel · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 144

Matt · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 840

I know that kz has it in his back bay post, but here's the copy cop space again. Also, they're moving ahead on the L&T face lift.

--

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Looks like the neighboring buildings are either three or four stories, so a four-story Apple Store will fit in just fine (better than the existing building, in fact).

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

kz1000ps · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 112

In the name of keeping topics together in the proper thread, here's the pic from my blizzard photos.

kz1000ps · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 112

And to supplement Matt's photos even more, here's one of Lord & Taylor from the same day as above. All this construction (or at least talk of it) is starting to make me a bit giddy! Surprised

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Four stories is better than two, but the bowfront brick building in the background demonstrates that eleven stories would be better still. Why doesn't Apple add seven stories of condos above? Can't say the market's not there.

ckb · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 126

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

iCantWait

Coyote137 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 33

garbribre · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459

Is that brick bowfront that ablarc refers to residential or office?
If the former, good luck taking their views away.
It's clear that the Walgreens site next door was never a consideration for air rights given all the windows on the bowfront's downtown side.

The CopyCop building is not that undistinguished. It's a simple but solidly built example of a streetcar suburb commercial district-style. Would be quite handsome in JP or Mass Ave in Arlington. Pity to see it go, but what better place for something new and exciting....and taller.

And why not Apple getting into a small real estate venture? It's not so rare as you think. This would be the perfect opportunity to test that water, if they haven't already. They are all about niche market branding, so this would be perfect.

LeTaureau · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

Real estate development and retail go hand in hand. A huge portion of McDonald's Corp's profits come from real estate development and the rent charged to franchise owners. This business model might not work for Apple, but who knows. Mixed use would be great for this location

Coyote137 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 33

briv · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

I think apple designs some of the most elegant and beautiful consumer products out there. It's pretty apparent to me that the company places an extraordinarily high emphasis on design and aesthetics. Their store interiors simply exude minimalist slick and are laid out more like art museums than retail stores. So, its all the more puzzling that I find the exteriors of their standalone stores so damn lousy.

Here are some images of Apple stores around the globe:
Pittsburgh

Seattle

Ginza

Chicago

San Francisco

As you can see, as far as Apple's architectural designs go, we get much less iPod; much more the box that the iPod comes in. Judging by the looks of their other stores I thinks it's safe to assume that the new Boylston store will be glass at street level, topped off by three levels of blankness-- probably something quite similar to their San Francisco store pictured above. Hopefully, the notoriously picky NABB would make Apple alter such a proposal. Im also hoping Menino remembers how Apple snubbed Boston by refusing to take part in the Macworld Expo a few years back. I think he would take great pleasure in forcing Apple to deviate, architecturally, from their otherwise pretty consistent branding strategy.

At least one hopes. Another blank box along Boylston would only further disgrace a street and a part of Boston-- the Copley Sq. area-- that has already been so thoroughly disgraced in recent decades.

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Agreed. The blank 2nd+ story walls are disgraceful. NABB and the city should insist on a fully glassed facade.

LeTaureau · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

Those certainly aren't the "sparkling jewels" they spoke of in the article. Glass would be much better

Mike · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 402

The article makes it sound like it will be all glass. Let's hope so.

Mike · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 402

Apple's proposal to raze site worries Back Bay panel

March 9, 2006

Preliminary design proposals for Apple Computer's first Boston store got a cool reception last night from the Back Bay Architectural Commission, but several commissioners said a revised design might address their concerns.

Apple hopes to demolish a small building at 815 Boylston St., which is occupied by a Copy Cop store at street level, and build a flagship store across from the Prudential Center.

Projects involving the demolition of an existing building in the Back Bay Architectural District generally require the commission's approval.

Apple has not formally presented any designs yet to the city.

Last night's meeting was an opportunity for Apple to rough out some early design ideas and get commission feedback.

One concept presented was a three-story building whose front would be largely glass. The building would likely have a green roof, said Bob Bridger, an Apple vice president of retail development.

Donna Prince, an alternate on the commission, acknowledged that the design was ''beautiful," but that it ''doesn't have a sense of place."

Ali Rizvi, the commission's vice chairman, said a developer needs to demonstrate an ''overwhelming justification" to be granted permission to tear down a building in the district. Stephen V. Miller of McDermott, Quilty & Miller LLP, a Boston firm representing Apple, said the flagship store would be a ''nonstarter" if the existing building can't be demolished.

One possible solution, several commissioners suggested, might be an Apple design that preserves or replicates the existing building's facade.

''There are a number of ways to save that facade," said commission chairman Anthony Casendino.

During his presentation, Bridger noted that Apple operates several stores in historic districts in cities such as Chicago and San Francisco, and the company works hard to ensure that design and materials are top notch.

While commissioners expressed concerns about exterior designs, no one objected to the scale and height of Apple's proposed store.

Last night's meeting is likely an early step in what could be a long approval process for Apple.

''I'll be anxious to see what they come back with," said Elliott Laffer, a long-time Back Bay activist who attended the hearing. ''Having an Apple store would be very exciting."

The site where Apple wants to build its store is just inside a boundary of the Back Bay Architectural District, which is smaller than the actual Back Bay neighborhood.

Development projects that propose demolition of existing buildings are unusual within the district, said William S. Young, the commission's senior preservation planner.

Since assuming that post in 1991, Young said only one demolition project in the district has gone forward. In 1998, a Sunoco gas station at the corner of Boylston and Fairfield streets was razed.

An office building went up on that site, and it now has a Fidelity Investments office at street level at 801 Boylston St.

''I am aware of no instances in which demolition was proposed but denied," Young said in an e-mail. ''It is a course very rarely pursued."

In the 1980s, another developer won permission to demolish buildings that had fallen into disrepair, Young said.

The site, at 855 Boylston St., is now an office building with an Eastern Mountain Sports store at street level.

The site where Apple wants to build is between 855 Boylston and 801 Boylston, where two previous demolitions have taken place.

Apple's team noted that the building occupied by Copy Cop was built in 1906 and renovated many times. According to Apple, the building has little architectural significance.

Link

PerfectHandle · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 128

Correction: The building has NO architectural significance.

TheBostonian · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 617

If this doesn't fly in the Back Bay I sure hope it does somewhere else in town.

briv · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

Here's a rendering from this weeks Courant. Fortunately they decided not to go the old blank box route. I like it.

DowntownDave · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 374

It needs another story to match the building on the right.

tmac9wr · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 22

True, but I think it will look really cool next to the redbrick buildings. I'm SO happy it's glass and not another blank wall.

ckb · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 126

DarkFenX · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111

statler · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

***WARNING - Do NOT read if you are in a bad mood!***

Local NIMBY bites Apple store
Welcome to the Back Bay ... now get the fuck out!
PAUL MCMORROW

In a dick-withering display of evil, the Back Bay Architectural Commission made a bid at derailing a flagship Apple Store on Boylston Street last week.

A month ago, members of the Menino administration rushed to the Globe with great news: Apple Computer had plans to demolish a derelict Copy Cop store on Boylston and construct a multi-story ?jewel? of an Apple Store in its place. One member of the mayor?s staff bragged that the future architectural landmark ?will literally glisten in the Back Bay.?

The news brought joy to Dig HQ. That soulless stretch of Boylston, across the street from the Pru, badly needs the injection of vibrant, creative architecture that an Apple Store would bring. But we were also cautious: That side of Boylston Street falls within the purview of the BBAC, a mayorally appointed, vampiric board that reviews/obstructs construction on Newbury Street and the northern half of Boylston in the interest of maintaining the neighborhood?s architectural cohesion. In recent years, the BBAC has moved to evict newspaper boxes and a whimsical whale sculpture from the district, so we weren?t bullish on Apple?s chances.

On Wednesday, Apple went before the BBAC to receive preliminary architectural guidance as to what type of building the BBAC likely would or would not let them construct. Apple argued that the Copy Cop building they?re eyeing is hardly historic?before housing Xerox machines, the two-story 1906 structure sold tires and auto parts. Nor is it architecturally significant, or even in good structural shape (somebody removed most of its load-bearing walls a while ago). And so, they argued, it can be torn down.

In place of this, an Apple VP proposed constructing a three-story modern glass structure that would boast a theatre, free WiFi and internet surfing stations, and a green roof. The building?s transparency, Apple argued, would make the building an extension of the streetscape. Not just a computer store, it would serve as an indoor plaza, as a gathering place for Bostonians.

The BBAC disagreed.

?What you say sounds good, but this street has an identity, and I don?t see an interaction with that identity,? said commissioner John Christiansen, in reaction to Apple?s preliminary design proposal.

?Tearing down a building needs overwhelming justification,? added Ali Rizvi, the BBAC?s vice chair. ?The fabric of this [neighborhood] is very old, and I don?t see a compelling reason why [Apple] should abandon that building.?

Piling on, commissioner Harry Moraitis said, ?There?s no relation in this design to the existing block.? (The existing block, it should be noted, currently boasts a Walgreens.) ?If every applicant came to us with such a distinctive design, we wouldn?t need to be here. This design is so extreme.?

And commissioner Dell Mitchell objected to the way that the store would light up Boylston at night. ?It would be quite an anomaly. There would be a lot of light emanating from the building, and that?s unnatural in this type of neighborhood.?

Putting aside the mental gymnastics it takes to believe that one glass building would destroy the neighborhoody feeling of a three-lane boulevard that hosts a mall, a convention center and the city?s second-tallest tower, Apple?s run-in with the BBAC raises a more immediate question: Is a cabal of frigid elitists stifling Boston?s growth while they defend some bullshit Brahmin conception of what an ex-landfill should look like?

In last week?s Globe, Apple?s lawyer, Stephen Miller, raised the possibility that if Apple isn?t allowed to demolish the Copy Cop building, it may not be interested in developing the site. (Calls to Miller and to Apple were unreturned.) Is the BBAC really willing to drive Apple (and jobs) out of town to preserve a crumbling, water-damaged, ass-ugly storefront? Especially if none of their objections would be issues if Apple were building on the other side of Boylston Street?

?We want Apple to come to the Back Bay,? insists City Councilor Mike Ross. He adds that while he doesn?t consider the Copy Cop building to be historic, he does worry about setting precedent. ?Apple may have to go through a few more hurdles than they?re used to, but we want to get them here. But there is a reason why the Back Bay is a beautiful neighborhood?it?s because of these regulations and the people who enforce them.?
Link

Palindrome · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 65

wow. My hate for nimby's has just increased 10 fold. Seriously is there anything i can do to help this get approved?

LeTaureau · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

^^Is this the only publication that has picked up this story? I'm surprised the Globe or Herald hasn't run a story on this. I'm not alarmed yet.

Though, if this type of NIMBY process persists, I suggest to anyone as concerned as I am over this project to contact the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay (NABB) at the following webiste: (I believe they are strongly affiliated with the Back Bay Architectural Commission, which is the group out of city hall which approves projects in the historic district.)

http://www.nabbonline.com

and you can email them at nabbinc@verizon.net