archBOSTON ARCHIVE

Mike · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 402

Developers: Why not Roxbury?
Private builders, squeezed for land, weigh variety of projects
Michelle Hillman
Journal Staff

Development in Roxbury has long been the work of nonprofits and local community development corporations, but with land hard to come by and the city preparing a 9-acre parcel for bid, private developers are warming to the idea that Roxbury is the next frontier for Boston development.

Not since the Roxbury Master Plan was completed last year have there been large-scale opportunities for private development. The challenge to bringing private development to Roxbury, in addition to convincing business of the demand for services and a viable economic base, includes overcoming a hurdle that is steeped in racial and socio-economic overtones.

"More and more you're seeing interest (from) private developers," said Jeanne Pinado, executive director of Madison Park Development Corp., a local CDC.

But, she added, "I think it's really hard for them to think of moving their offices to Roxbury. I think people always underestimate race."

After years of stalled efforts to bring the neighborhood to the minds of developers, a number of opportunities are now making headway in Roxbury.

Steve Samuels, president of Boston developer Samuels & Associates, which is developing a large, mixed-use project in the Fenway neighborhood on Boylston Street, said he's been interested in the city's 9-acre parcel for 10 years. The parcel is on Tremont and Whittier streets, and is near the Reggie Lewis Track and Athletic Center and in front of Madison Park High School.

"I clearly think Roxbury is an up-and-coming area of development," Samuels said, acknowledging there is still work to be done to convince retailers there's a strong consumer base in Roxbury.

But convincing office, life sciences and retailers to make the move to Roxbury is becoming somewhat easier, thanks to development such as Crosstown Center, a joint venture between developer Kirk Sykes and Corcoran Jennison Co.

The joint venture, called Crosstown Office LLC, is moving forward with Phase II and will break ground this summer on a 204,000-square-foot office and retail building and a 600-car garage. The new project is adjacent to the existing 175-room Hampton Inn & Suites and 650-space parking garage completed about a year ago New office tenants for the second phase are expected to include Boston University Medical School and Brigham & Women's Hospital. Sykes, who is now an executive with Boston-based real estate investment firm New Boston Fund Inc., has secured letters of intent with the two office tenants who will occupy 150,000 square feet of space in the new office building.

Two other projects that hold promise for Roxbury are the redevelopment of the Ferdinand building in Dudley Square and Modern Electroplating, a brownfield site across the street that is currently a vacant building. Both are eyesores in Dudley Square and have been idle for years.

New Boston Fund's Modern Electroplating site is a $30 million development.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority has hired Boston-based development consultancy NDC Development Associates Inc. to oversee the design and construction of the Ferdinand site. The city plans to move employees to the site and is looking at the amount of office and retail the 30,000-square-foot footprint can support, said John Dragat, senior vice president at NDC.

Separately, New Boston Fund and John B. Cruz Construction Inc. were designated the developers of the Modern Electroplating site four years ago. The team is looking to reinvigorate the plan to build office and retail space and a garage at the site, which is about 3 acres, said Dragat.

While some projects have stalled, others have taken off -- including the redevelopment of three buildings by the Nuestra Comunidad Development Corp. with the most recent being the restoration of the Hotel Dartmouth on Warren Street in Roxbury. Another redevelopment is the restoration of the historic Hibernian Hall, now Roxbury's Center for the Arts, Culture & Trade, by the Madison Park CDC.

"I think there's a lot of interest in Roxbury and Dudley Square," said Madison Park's Pinado.

The BRA has earmarked several land sites for development in and around Dudley Square and expects development will be complete in five to 10 years. Pinado said the parcel will be a huge new development in Roxbury, with the focus being on job creation. The parcel, called P-3, is located near Longwood Medical Area and Northeastern University. The city is hoping a mix of uses including office, research, retail and light manufacturing could be developed at the site. It is not slated for residential uses.

Hugues Monestime, senior planner for the BRA, said Roxbury needs to attract private developers who will bring business to the area. The first parcel to be put out to bid this summer will serve as a "boilerplate example," he said.

While the bulk of development will occur on the publicly owned parcels, he added, more than a handful of private developers have been coming forward with other, smaller developments.

"There are many developers who call and ask about the process," said Monestime. "They want to know when we are going to issue RFPs."

Link

DowntownDave · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 374

This terrific old thread by Ronwell Pudding is worth bringing up again, given this context:

http://p217.ezboard.com/fskyscraperguyfrm0.showMessage?topicID=1155.topic

briv · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 118

Here?s the latest rendering of Crosstown Phase II from ADD's site. It appears they've already given up on trying to make any sort of design statement here. This latest version is your typical strip-windowed, low-slung, Route 128 special.

Here?s an earlier design. Good or bad, one can see that at least a real effort was put into this design. I read this effort as an expression of optimism for the future of the area--just as I, likewise, read the lack of effort in the current design as a general lack of optimism in the future of the area.

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Ahh...Roxbury: Boston's perennial sick man.

It's a fair spell from Mass. Ave. to Dudley, but what it all has in common is that it's all sad.

Because it's Roxbury: it's really a state of mind.

They should change the name.

.

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Perhaps Roxbury has finally lost its negative connotations? People who live in Fort Hill are proud to say they live in Roxbury.

The redevelopment of the old Mission Hill Projects into a mixed-income community has removed a big psychological barrier separating Mission Hill from the Fenway. Brigham Circle now looks better than it has in many decades.

Roxxma · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 170

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Roxxma · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 170

PerfectHandle · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 128

Please don't compare Roxbury to a bomb crater or a concentration camp. There are a lot of people working very hard to dispel the fears of moronic, black-people fearing suburbanites who cocoon themselves in Wellesley and Duxbury to avoid what they see as the crater, warzone etc. of Roxbury.

That article is about 10 years late. Why not Roxbury is no new sentiment.

Don't worry about Roxbury becoming suburban. 99% of Roxbury is not in the South Bay mall. It's Dudley, Grove Hall, Humboldt Avenue, Egleston, Mission Hill, Fort Hill etc...

I don't know the answer to maintaining neighborly feeling in redeveloping neighborhoods, but I suspect it must have something to do with homes being affordable. I find Charlestown, which has seen its share of gentrification, to be very friendly. I know all my neighbors just because we talk when one of us walks by. It's nice.

For the record, I think the last piece for a full Roxbury revival would be sending a subway line through the heart of Roxbury. Even just extending the glorified bus of the Silver Line from Dudley, out Warren, through Grove Hall and then down Blue Hill to Mattapan would work wonders.

Ablarc, I'm surprised to read you bringing up NIMBYish concerns about redevelopment. You're usually the anti-NIMBY. Maybe when it's your own neighborhood it's a different story.

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

I too found your remarks a bit offensive, ablarc. You are usually much better-informed.

Poolio · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 193

I don't believe that being suburban necessarily means being unfriendly. There's a far more complex set of criteria that may determine the tightness of a neighborhood; density may be one, but lack thereof is certainly no death knell for neighborly acquaintance.

I live in an undeniably suburban neighborhood southwest of Boston. We're talking large houses on acre lots here. I am by far more friendly with my neighbors here than in any other urban or suburban setting I've ever lived in. We (the guys) get together regularly to play poker, watch Red Sox games, drink at the "community bench". We share our power tools and lawn equipment. The wives have frequent "house parties" (gack) and weekend get-aways. We have neighborhood block parties, Easter egg hunts, Christmas parties, Halloween parties, Super Bowl parties... any excuse really for a party. We have "happy hour" after work at a different house each Friday throughout the summer. The kids all play together and are welcome in most any home. Everyone knows everyone.

I may miss being in the city regularly, but I couldn't ask for a better environment in which to raise my family. I realize I got lucky: we could have wound up in a place equally hostile. You never really can know before you buy.

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

user_11 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 25

Here are two articles about recent real estate issues in Roxbury -

Hill housing news is grim
By Scott Van Voorhis
Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - Updated: 03:45 AM EST

While Beacon Hill and neighborhoods such as Dorchester and Roxbury don't typically rub shoulders, the two ends of the Hub housing market may be sharing symptoms of a coming real estate chill, experts say.

Condo sales on Beacon Hill fell nearly 50 percent in March, according to a veteran neighborhood dealmaker.

Meanwhile, mortgage defaults are spiking in Dorchester and Roxbury, while single-family home and condo prices are down, the Herald has reported.

The news comes as the Commerce Department reports a 17 percent March plunge nationally in housing starts, the largest decline since 1991.

However, signs that the Hub's long-running real estate boom may be faltering at its epicenter - pricey Beacon Hill - may be more of a concern locally.

The combination of sky-high prices, rising interest rates and general economic unease are taking a toll, said John Ford, owner of Ford Realty, which specializes in Beacon Hill real estate.

``Interest rates are going up, there is a sense of uneasiness in a lot of buyers,'' he said. ``It looks like all the elements are in play for a slowdown in housing.''

Overall, the number of Beacon Hill condo and home sales fell to 15 this March, down from 26 the same period in 2004. Ford also pointed to 93 price changes- all downward - in Beacon Hill condos and other properties in the past week alone.

Time spent on market is also increasing, Ford said.

Signs of a potential housing market slowdown have real estate investors such as Brian Kavoogian planning their next move cautiously.

``Although people have been talking about the demise of the housing market nationally and locally for quite some time, there does come a point where the market comes into balance, and therefore it's important to pick your spots,'' said Kavoogian, head of Charles River Realty Advisors.

Home buyer worry in two areas
By Scott Van Voorhis
Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - Updated: 08:36 AM EST

If you're wondering what it will be like if the real estate bubble bursts, ask some homeowners in Dorchester and Roxbury.

The gas is running out of the recent real estate run-up in both neighborhoods, according to local housing researcher John Anderson.

Dorchester and Roxbury homeowners defaulting on mortgages rose 35 percent over the past year, said Anderson, of The Real Estate Analyst. And Dorchester single-family and condo prices are falling after record highs last year.

The jury is still out whether the bad news is just local - or a warning of a larger Boston area decline.

But a cooling off could hit Dorchester and Roxbury particularly hard, thanks to a growing number of high-interest, subprime loans.

``There is a whole confluence of factors,'' said Anderson, a longtime Dorchester homeowner. ``We've hit the wall.''

The numbers tell the story, with 65 homeowners facing foreclosure in Dorchester and Roxbury between April 2004 and April 2005, Anderson reports. That's up from 48 defaults the year before.

Dorchester single-family home prices dropped during the same period to $320,000 from $370,000, while condo prices slid to $245,000 from $265,000, Anderson said.

As the number of homeowners in trouble has risen, Anderson has seen an explosion in lending by high-interest-rate lenders.

It is a problem that James Campen, an economist from the University of Massachusetts at Boston, documented in a recent study that found a 60 percent rise in so-called subprime lending in Boston neighborhoods.

Other problem signs, according to Anderson, include rising interest rates and a proliferation of for-rent signs in two-or-three-family homes. Such small multifamilies have been a favorite of first-time buyers trying to break into the market.

``To use a cliche, it's the perfect storm. All the elements are coming together,'' Anderson said.

Still, Karl Case, a Wellesley College housing economist, was cautious about forecasting a price plunge based on Anderson's findings.

``I don't think what is likely to happen is a big bust in price,'' he said.

Roxbury_Ranger · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8

Roxbury_Ranger · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8

statler · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

I'm not sure why everybody is piling on ablarc in this thread. From what I'm reading all he seems to be saying is
1. a lot of the built evironment in Roxbury is in disrepair
2. Roxbury suffers from poor public image.

These are not really radical opinions.

And welcome to the board Roxbury Ranger! Take some time to read some of ablarc's posts here and on other urban design boards. You'll see he is far from clueless.

Matt · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 840

Ok, I have to jump in. I rarely participate because I simply enjoy reading the facts that many of you have to offer. However, this thread is driving me crazy.

i'm all for getting passionate about these topics, but I have noticed that every once in a while loaded language is used. That's fine....ultimately it's only subjective. But with this one, clearly people feel offended, and their thoughts should be respected as much as anyone else's.

I guess I would take offense if people said the same harsh (and I don't think it's a huge leap to consider 'bomb craters and a concentration camp' harsh) language about my neighborhood....the place where I call home, where I am every day, where I know people, etc. And, most importantly, the place I chose to live. It would almost be an attack on my choices. Especially if it came from someone who didn't live here! It would be some sort of territorial instinct....and it would turn me off to that person. So yeah, since everyone's giving their opinion, here's mine -- I don't think anyone's reaction was out of line...

Ok, so roxbury is in disrepair...we got it...how is any of this productive to get a good discussion going?

Roxbury_Ranger · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8

Roxbury_Ranger · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Well, I sure got Roxbury wrong. I haven't been there in at least ten years; it sounds like it's been completely transformed and now approaches heaven on earth. I've put it on my list of must-see destinations for my next visit to Boston. It sounds like it's improved more than any other Boston neighborhood; I'm glad.

Sorry to have flapped my mouth so ignorantly.

Somebody ought to post some pictures. I certainly will on my next visit, but in the meantime I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

How do oldtimers in Roxbury feel about the gentrification?

Poolio · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 193

I believe Ron did some very in depth photo tours of Roxbury about a year ago. Or was it somebody else? I don't recall, but they were excellent. I also don't remember if they were on SSG or SSP. Ron?

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Not me -- I've never done any photo tours on any site so far.

Roxbury_Ranger · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8

Mike · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 402

South of the South End: Gentrification hits Roxbury
Tom Witkowski
Journal Staff

A developer is buying a vacant parking garage one block west of Massachusetts Avenue in Roxbury with a plan to build loft-style condominiums, a sign of gentrification creeping over from Boston's increasingly swank South End.

New Boston Ventures LLC expected to close on the sale of the 255 Northampton St. garage this week, according to developer David Goldman. The developer plans to demolish the garage and begin construction of a new building by summer.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority, Zoning Board of Appeals and Landmarks Commission have signed off on the plan. Financing is in place and New Boston is awaiting a building permit, Goldman said.

"We are going to be converting it into 25 condos, going up five stories, with a one-third story penthouse on the roof, set back," Goldman said. The building will be named Soco 255.

For a few years now, home buyers have been crossing Massachusetts Avenue in search of more affordable housing still close to the South End neighborhood.

Now developers are following them.

New Boston is eyeing a piece of land near its current project and the BRA owns several parcels along Melnea Cass Boulevard and on the other side of Dudley Square that are slated for residential development over the next decade.

One of the first parcels expected to be offered is a vacant lot bordering New Boston Ventures' Soco 255 project. The city is expected to put out a request for proposals for that land soon, which could spur more development. New Boston will be putting forth a proposal, Goldman said.

"We've had a track record of identifying overlooked neighborhoods and streets, going in and investing," said Goldman. "There isn't a lot of land left to develop in the South End, and this is the next logical frontier."

The units in Soco 255 will be priced around $500 per square foot and sell in the $350,000 to $450,000 range, Goldman said. The total project cost is about $5.6 million.

The planned condominiums will be around the corner from the former Bob the Chef's restaurant on Columbus Avenue, which is undergoing renovations and will be reopened as Bob's Southern Bistro.

The restaurant owner, Darryl Settles, is also a partner with developer David Schwartz of East Coast Realty in a condominium development on Massachusetts Avenue below Washington Street.

Settles and Schwartz will be building 30 new-construction, two-bedroom condominiums at 687-697 Massachusetts Ave. -- currently a vacant lot. The groundbreaking for that $10 million project is planned for July, Schwartz said. Four units will be affordable housing and the rest market rate.

"It's going to vary from the high-threes to mid-fives, with average units in the $400,000 range," said Schwartz.

Both condominium projects will add needed housing in the city, said BRA spokeswoman Meredith Baumann.

"It also has the immediate positive effect in the directly surrounding area," Baumann said.

Other BRA properties expected to be put in play over the next five to 10 years include a 2-acre parcel on Melnea Cass Boulevard between Washington Street and Shawmut Avenue on which the BRA would prefer a mix of commercial, office and residential development.

On a nearby 1.2-acre property on Melnea Cass Boulevard, the BRA recommends commercial use and parking, but residential uses could be on the upper floors.

The BRA would also like to see residential development and community use on a 1.6-acre lot at the corner of Melnea Cass Boulevard and Tremont Street.

Link

JohnnySic · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 72

There is a ton of land available just south of Mass Ave. I just hope the fill it with nice buildings, unlike a lot of the crappy ones one finds along Malnea Cass and thereabouts.

Joe_Schmoe · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 180

Turning a parking garage into housing is great, but please, no more pretentious names like "Soco 255." Smile

shiz02130 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 94

Soco = south of Colombus?

Roxxma · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 170

Vanshnookenraggen · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 364

As for the area just south of Mass Ave, it is amazing to look at when you stand just north or Mass Ave, looking north, then turn south. It is like night and day.

There is so much vacant space in this area that it has to be next for development. The problem I see is that something really shity gets built like all the new "neo-projects". I dont mean they are projects but if you look around Boston (and alot in the suburbs) you get apartments that are grouped and set back like projects but are nicer and more upscale. They look horrible, especialy in a neighborhood of townhouses. I think there should be a masterplan with a new look at the zoning for the South Mass-Dudley Area. It could be a very nice place.

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

The large amount of vacant land is a legacy of the 1960s, when much of the area was torn down for a highway interchange that was never built.

Scott · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 163

Also the Roxbury Canal, an extension of the Fort Point Channel, was filled in during the 50`s on the south side of Albany Street as well as what was left of South Bay. This is why the City Hospital side of Albany is built up with industry and the other, until recently, had low-rise buildings and parking lots. It also created another area of Boston that has ancient maritime industrial buildings that are nowhere near the water.

TC · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 62

Ron Newman · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1007

Historically, the Boston-Roxbury town line was a few blocks southwest of what's now Mass. Ave. This is also where brick construction starts to give way to wood.

BostonFaker · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 703

I must add to this interesting discussion.

I'm a white boy in my early 20s, and grew up in the suburbs of Boston. I was always told to stay away from Roxbury whenever I went into town. I was also instilled how much of a ghetto Roxbury was. This ideal was always strengthened by Roxbury usually being in the nightly news for some sort of crime. I just came to the idea that Roxbury was just a place for poor black people.

As for any of this being true, I don't know. Roxbury seems to be a neighborhood of lower rents where the working class lives, regardless of race. Working class can be synonymous with poor, and when poor people cluster, crime seems to rise for economic reasons. The working class do need to live somewhere, but as for living in the prime location of Roxbury, I don't think so. This leads to discussions of the affordable housing crisis.

As for development in Roxbury, I don't understand why there has been no real development there with such a housing shortage that exists in Boston. This must be the result of zoning and racial issues. I really want to walk around Roxbury to see what everyone is talking about, yet I'm nervous about what I might find around each corner.

People talk about revitalizing Roxbury, bringing in money and more people.

But then there's the "bad" word of gentrification.

With new people and money, no doubt some of the current residents will be forced out. In my eyes, Roxbury seems to talking out of both sides of its mouth, wanting new people and money while allowing the current residents to stay as prices rise. This can be seen with the problems Northeastern is having with building new dorms. The ideal of every neighborhood being pleasant and high scale is a pipe dream. Having all neighborhoods being safe and prosperous might be a reachable goal.

I hope Roxbury will eventually not be considered a ghetto, and that the descent, hard working, working class current residents will find a better place to live. This is possibly done by some affordable housing policy. But as for Roxbury as a location, I don't see why not high rises could be built there; historical preservation considerations, etc., taken into account, of course.

Roxbury_Ranger · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8

I just couldn't resist responding to a post like this! Rolling Eyes

ablarc · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

Roxbury Ranger, I can't tell what your point is.

But I can tell that your manner's shrill and abusive, verging on hysterical. Do you think such insecure defensiveness makes you a good representative of Roxbury?

I think you owe BostonFaker an apology.

garbribre · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 459

BostonFaker · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 703

Roxbury Ranger,

All I wanted to do is express my view, and probably the view of many of my equals. Your badgering just enhances my opinion of the cantankerous two voices of Roxbury.

You begin by racially labelling me, which is very interesting since racial issues are so prevalent in Roxbury. I also do not feel I have a cardboard caricature of the world. As for the $400,000 price tags that can be found there, as you say, these are a lot cheaper than the million dollar rates found elsewhere in town. It costs a lot to live in the city, esp. a city like Boston. As for developments, other than this topic in this forum, there is no acknowledged major building developements in Roxbury.

People's ability to live in a location is dictated by money. The rich get the best, and the poor get the worst. Affordable housing policies can try to help alleviate these differences, but not totally.

Your addition does not quell my lack of knowledge of Roxbury.

BOSDevelopment · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 293

well - I agree that both posts were equally stupid. There's nothing more annoying than checking the forum and seeing the new post orange thing, then clicking on it only to realize that it's something stupid or long winded.

Roxbury_Ranger · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8

justin · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418

Your first post may have 'challenged' the ignorance of Roxbury, but it did precious little to diminish it. You made it up with this one, though -- thanks for the exhaustive update. Any links/pics of these developments?

justin

BOSDevelopment · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 293

Roxbury still sucks. Notice all the development you're including is"affordable" housing, aka "a place for section 8 scumbags to live".

You may think that 200k isnt very affordable but i'd be willing to bet that the majority of these new housing units are for rent, not to own. So in reality the metropolitan housing authority will be the one paying these down.

There's no use in getting your panties in a bunch over a neighborhood that is currently (and most likely will stay for decades) full of crappy people.

I used to have a tenant that was a social worker in Roxbury. She lived in one of my buildings in a fairly nice suburban town north of Boston. She claimed to help people that were down on their luck. When the market turned around and I had to start renting to shittier and shitter tenants she got fed up and moved. At the time I thought it was hypocritical of her, to say she helped people but then didn't want to live sorrounded by Section 8 tenants.

But who in their right minds would want to put up with it. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of section 8 people live in my units. Only a small handful appreciated the housing authority's help. Most caused damage to the units, were loud, lazy, filthy, and generally intolerable. I took many to court, some even had the audacity to take me to court, wasting my time, the court's time and the taxpayers' money.

Here's a clue to the city of Boston and to you, Roxbury Ranger: If you really want to make Roxbury nice, stop building "affordable housing units". Let all these lazy ass no aspiration scumbags move to towns like Maynard or Lowell. The landlords up their could use the help.

JohnnySic · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 72

^My father owned an apartment building in Roxbury for about 20 years (just sold it last year) and he had all of the same problems that you just described.

PaulC · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 172

Instead of not building affordable units in new development I would prefer that for every subsidized unit built in a new development a subsidized unit in a housing project becomes market rate. Having projects that are all or heavily poor leads to disaster.

Recently the city rebuilt a project where the residents had been afraid to go out on their street because of the crime. The city spent millions rehabbing the project and I recently saw a Globe article saying the residents are afraid to go out in their street because of crime. I'm not sure but this may have been Mission Hill.

Several years ago the Boston Globe said that 40 percent of Boston's housing stock was in housing projects or section 8. That's why I don't think there should be a net increase.

Poolio · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 193

I found BostonFaker's original post honest and condusive to debate. By stating at the outset that he was a "white boy in [his] early 20s" he was alerting everyone that his view was likely to be inaccurate. It was to reiterate a common (mis)conception about the neighborhood that he posted, and to spur dialog.

I don't choose to take sides here, but I would like to see this thread remain friendly since I could use some education on Roxbury as well. RoxburyRanger's 2nd post was very informative and I'll be Googling some of these projects shortly. The abuse in several other posts will only trash any possibility of having a valuable discussion about a topic we could all stand to learn from.

justin · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 418

statler · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 825

citydave · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 68

We're walking a fine line between satire and vitriol. I'm all for unvarnished discourse and parody but innuendo is easy to misinterpret over email. Just bear it in mind...

dudeursistershot · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 715

DarkFenX · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 1111

^ hmmm. Never thought of Roxbury of being only black people stealing stuff. Where did this stereotype idea come from? I'm probably slow but why do they think that because I never thought of Roxbury only being black.